January 30th, 2015, 08:27
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(January 30th, 2015, 08:15)Ichabod Wrote: There's a possibility of a Town Cop/Lover role. So we could actually have 3 cops. Both me and Qgqqqqq explicitly claimed Town Cop.
If novice is Cop/Lover he went about his initial claim even more disingenuously, given it's known that there is a maximum value of 2 Town Cops and 1 Town Cop/Lover.
(January 30th, 2015, 08:22)zakalwe Wrote: In that case, the cop lover should have claimed cop lover, not town cop. This.
-- Don’t forget.
Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
-- As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
January 30th, 2015, 08:27
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(January 30th, 2015, 07:58)Jowy Wrote: Now, would Mattimeo be the kind of person to fake counter claim cop to get two cops killed? 
I think Mattimeo is real here, mostly because I don't think his play so far aligns with his scum play at all. I'm also leaning on novice being the fake cop at the moment.
January 30th, 2015, 08:29
Posts: 8,293
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Novice is too savvy to claim a wrong role in a game like this as town, and also Lover Cop isn't something anyone should pick over Doctor.
January 30th, 2015, 08:31
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(January 30th, 2015, 06:32)Qgqqqqq Wrote: I don't get why you quoted your own post on this matter rather than my (or others) criticizing it, but anyway.
I quoted my post because it made it easier for me to address it line by line. Since pretty much everything I had said in that post had been questioned, it seemed the easiest way to A: avoid missing anything, and B: having a bunch repeats of things I said.
(January 30th, 2015, 06:32)Qgqqqqq Wrote: (January 29th, 2015, 14:07)Jabbz Wrote: So first, a couple of observations on my initial posting here that claims Qg. Yes, I understand that Qg made that post right at the beginning. However, the first time I read it I didn't think much of the role itself. If you note, (and a number of you did) it did not make it into my list of role drops that I found suspicious. What caught my attention instead was Novice, and the other roles I found to be powerful. After reading other peoples posts, and taking into account how powerful it would be in a game where almost everyone has a role (I would imagine not many people took non power roles, unless they couldn't avoid it). So I did what any open minded person should do, I looked at new information, and since I found it persuasive, altered my views on it.
So is it the role itself that caught your attention and, at the least, caused you to re-read (the second time)? Your post (and vote) then, is completely about the meta of the role, rather than the way I handled it?
Yes. Once people explained the role as being more powerful than I originally interpreted it, I went back and reread your stuff. When I first read your posts I simply didn't think much about them, as they seemed to be very reasonable justifications for not playing it. With the new information in mind, they fell short.
(January 30th, 2015, 06:32)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Quote:On the "Nebulous other site." Until you posted said other site, it was nebulous. You pointing to it after the fact doesn't change my perception of its value when you posted it. It might provide some exoneration after the fact, but it is not in and of itself indicative of my scumminess.
Why would I ever comment on another site unless I was able and willing to present it? Like, why would you ever assume that's a lie or tenuous - I could easily claim an IRL game instead, which would be far easier to fake.
No, the indicator of your scumminess lies in that you chose to jump on a series of easy and meta-bound lynches, and then exaggerated your response to my post.
I think my initial response to this was quite appropriate. I'm sorry that you disagree. You will also note that, despite the fact that I still liked you for a lynch, I did accept this part quite easily when you linked the site.
(January 30th, 2015, 06:32)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Quote:On the "weaker role" I read you as saying that the RB here is weaker than the RBesque role you had on the other site. That being your justification for not wanting it is like turning down a 1s vig because you played a MS vig before and the 1s is so much less powerful.
True. It wasn't my justification, but I can see how you might have thought that.
Fake edit: actually, that wasn't what you said in yout post at all. You said: "claims that more roles makes a role blocker weaker" That's nothing like what you've just defended. What's going on here?
I assume you mean this post.
(January 29th, 2015, 01:06)Jabbz Wrote: This excuse sounds just absolutely terrible to me. It cites some nebulous other site forum game, claims that more roles makes a role blocker weaker, and claims "oh I'm bad, so I didn't want an important role." I don't know Qg all that well, but this seems very off for him.
That was me simply misreading your post. I addressed that here.
(January 29th, 2015, 14:07)Jabbz Wrote: On the "weaker role" I read you as saying that the RB here is weaker than the RBesque role you had on the other site. That being your justification for not wanting it is like turning down a 1s vig because you played a MS vig before and the 1s is so much less powerful.
(January 30th, 2015, 06:32)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Quote:On the "lets not lynch anyone. Ok that might have been over the top, I'll give you that. TBH reading it this morning, I'm not sure where exactly I was going with that last night. In my defense, I was posting right before bed after a long day. I do stand by the rest of my post however.
Just because I vote along with other people (a third of the participants I might add) is not in and of itself indicative of me doing it only because I'm following the train. First of all, the odds of a train starting this early on the first day, and resulting in a lynch is absurdly low. It is far more about placing pressure on you to respond, which it did. When people get enough out of your response, they will then move onto other people and arguments, or in the case of Novice and his cop claim, simply hold judgement in abeyance until more information comes to light.
That being said, I'm going to reread all the posts I skimmed this morning, and see where else I need to place arguments. By all means, let me know if this is insufficient.
Making votes is absolutely about placing pressure. No questions there. To state, however, that it isn't also about getting someone lynched is ludicrous, however, and deliberately and after-the-fact cheapening a vote.
It is absurd to claim that every single vote cast is about getting someone lynched. Can you honestly tell me that you have never placed a vote simply to see how someone responds? Say yes, and I'll bet you I can go back into your past games and find you do just that. I could use the easy money, I haven't had a raise at this damn place in over a year. Further, it isn't an attempt to cheapen a vote after the fact when I stay on you, rather than move after getting the response I was looking for. Methinks you are taking this a bit too personally.
(January 30th, 2015, 06:32)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Your argument here for my lynch is basically entirely meta - you voted novice before on meta, backed off on meta and then came after me on meta. To you, the way I handled it didn't matter a whit, until after you decided that my role was more powerful than you thought (but still weaker than half the claimable roles...) and came back to have a look. Even then, the way you say it doesn't make me think you really cared for what occurred therein, it was merely the fact that I rejected the role and then failed to claim. The focus is on the excuse of rejecting, not on the (apparently terrible) way that I handled it - all pressure for claims rather than scumhunting, a continuation of the trend.
I get re-reading for tells. But this isn't anything to do with that - this is all role-based, as you said in the first bit of this post (you returned after you realised how strong it was), no mention of what I was saying. And thus, because he's been pressuring not for reads but for claims, he'll have got his victory.
And again, there's no real defense against what was argued! He's been wagoning big-time - following the big posts, not scumhunting individually but jumping on reads - but he doesn't defend against it, instead saying that he's not expecting to end up lynching, merely holding out to pressure. For what? How has my response be recieved? Or are you just blatantly pressuring for a role-claim?
Unfortunately I don't have time to analyse his other posts, but he doesn't seem to give any more reasoning on me, and continues to be dominated by meta discussion. I honestly don't recall his previous games, but this is all scummy as fuck.
I'm pretty sure I addressed the rest of this stuff elsewhere. For the moment, given what's going on with others, this is a moot point. However, you are not off the radar completely. That's cool, neither am I :P
January 30th, 2015, 08:32
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Unrelated, but I also feel very comfortable with the bunch voting Lewwyn at the moment (and I'd add Zak to that list as well even though he's not voting).
January 30th, 2015, 08:34
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I mean the bunch before the changes to novice (Jowy, Gazglum, Rowain, AdrienIer, Ichabod)
January 30th, 2015, 08:38
(This post was last modified: January 30th, 2015, 08:39 by BRickAstley.)
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Official tally as of post 396:
6 votes: novice ( Mattimeo, Jowy, AdrienIer, zakalwe, Jabbz, Ichabod)
4 votes: Jabbz ( Qgqqqqq, Molach, novice, Fenn)
3 votes: Lewwyn ( Meiz, Gazglum, Rowain)
3 votes: Qgqqqqq ( Lewwyn, dtay, Twinkletoes89)
1 votes: Gazglum ( Bobchillingworth)
1 votes: Jowy ( Jkaen)
1 votes: AdrienIer ( Azarius)
Voting history:
3 hours, 22 minutes to deadline.
January 30th, 2015, 08:41
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I wonder if we have really 2 cops. Anti-town needs to have very goo roles to make that game balanced.
January 30th, 2015, 08:44
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Or just good numbers. And they have the potential for a GF, dayvig, strongman, roleblocker...
If you know what I mean.
January 30th, 2015, 08:50
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(January 30th, 2015, 08:41)Rowain Wrote: I wonder if we have really 2 cops. Anti-town needs to have very goo roles to make that game balanced.
Well, there's no way to lynch 2 people at the same time and we are already lynching a claimed cop. Going forward, we'll see what happens. I think Mafia would want to get rid of the true cops (which "solves" our problem). Letting them live is a bad idea, because village can just wait like 4/5 days and then lynch them to confirm their scries. So, we can do just that. For now, we wait. After a certain time, we can always lynch them and, perhaps get a mafia, perhaps have 4/5 confirmed scries.
I don't think the claims are an elaborate play by the mafia. It's hard to believe someone would just do that without first discussing with his team, and they can't discuss during the day. Novice's claim fits with one a mafia player would do by himself, since he was in a pretty difficult position, where claiming was the only way out. A claim gambit is a whole different level of play.
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