February 2nd, 2015, 00:49
Posts: 7,902
Threads: 13
Joined: Aug 2006
I already tried to explain this once:
(January 30th, 2015, 17:58)zakalwe Wrote: (January 30th, 2015, 17:19)Azarius Wrote: Would bob really go for the bus from the beginning of the day? At that point I wouldn't say novice's position was unrecoverable. If there hadn't been two other cop claims for instance, it's likely he could have survived the day. I don't think bob is afraid to go for a high risk high reward big play, but without being able to discuss it amongst themselves it just seems unlikely to me that scum would just go straight for a bus if it's avoidable.
The point is to have some insurance. If Novice's cop claim had remained unchallenged, there is no way we would have lynched him. So "busing" him in that case would be completely safe. But if the claim did backfire, Bob would at least gain towncred for being his most stubborn attacker. Or so the theory goes. In reality, that's a very common scum play and not so hard to see through. So it would be slightly noobish scum play by Bob, IMO. But it's also hard to see how his push to lynch Novice *after* his cop claim could be genuine town play.
Your scum buddy does something risky that might backfire... of course you want to appear skeptical until you see if he can get away with it or not. That's not fancy scum play, it's common scum play.
If you know what I mean.
February 2nd, 2015, 01:00
Posts: 10,093
Threads: 82
Joined: May 2012
Uhh, somehow this day just lost steam. I don't like it, and I don't think this stagnation means we've caught scum.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
February 2nd, 2015, 01:02
Posts: 10,093
Threads: 82
Joined: May 2012
Tally as of post 722:
3 votes: DTay ( Gazglum, Ichabod, Fenn)
3 votes: Bob ( Jowy, AdrienIer, zakalwe)
2 votes: Jkaen ( Meiz, Qgqqqqq)
3 votes: Twinkletoes89 ( Jabbz, Azarius) ( dtay)
1 votes: Jabbz ( Molach)
1 votes: Jowy ( Jkaen)
1 votes: Rowain ( Twinkletoes89)
1 votes: Molach ( Bobchillingworth)
Voting history:
God, we have 3 people on 3 votes? This close to the lynch?
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
February 2nd, 2015, 01:10
Posts: 10,093
Threads: 82
Joined: May 2012
Of those three, I think Bob's acted the least scummy. I mean, I do get where his case is coming from, but I'm just not reading him as such.
Between Twinkletoes and Dtay. Of the two, Dtay is one I've felt played less scummy, but TT lynch feels significantly "easier", and the people voting it are ones I'm less comfortable with.
I think I'll vote Dtay and then reread after dinner.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
February 2nd, 2015, 01:18
Posts: 5,157
Threads: 37
Joined: Jan 2011
Not had a look for myself, but i agree that Adrian's post #2 on Bob is one heck of a stretch. Will try to find to look at the 3 cases today and give my reads on them
February 2nd, 2015, 02:12
Posts: 3,045
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Joined: Aug 2006
The fact is that Bob made two really bad & illogical attacks in a row, and I don't see him doing them as town. First against TT, which was completely false. And then against Molach, again not realizing the point he was saying at all. To me that looks like a scum who went through the thread to find something to attack, and it's very easy to lose the context when doing that. Both scream faked attacks to me.
That's enough for me to think that Bob is the best lynch for today. Jkaen is still coming close as second, I haven't seen anything yet to change my mind on him.
February 2nd, 2015, 02:14
Posts: 3,045
Threads: 2
Joined: Aug 2006
(February 2nd, 2015, 01:00)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Uhh, somehow this day just lost steam. I don't like it, and I don't think this stagnation means we've caught scum.
IMO that's really bad assumption to make. It got more quiet because everyone was waiting for their suspect to post. And there has been pushes for different people, like TT & Molach.
February 2nd, 2015, 02:28
Posts: 7,902
Threads: 13
Joined: Aug 2006
Tally as of post 727:
4 votes: DTay ( Gazglum, Ichabod, Fenn, Qgqqqqq)
4 votes: Bob ( Jowy, AdrienIer, zakalwe, Meiz)
3 votes: Twinkletoes89 ( Jabbz, Azarius, dtay)
1 votes: Jabbz ( Molach)
1 votes: Jowy ( Jkaen)
1 votes: Rowain ( Twinkletoes89)
1 votes: Molach ( Bobchillingworth)
Voting history:
If you know what I mean.
February 2nd, 2015, 02:35
Posts: 6,259
Threads: 17
Joined: Jul 2014
Heh maybe I got a bit overexcited here but I disagree with the argument saying Bob wouldn't link with the other wolves on D1, he couldn't have expected that 2 wolves would get killed before D2.
February 2nd, 2015, 02:59
Bobchillingworth
Unregistered
Ichabod Wrote:Yeah, but it's not really unexpected. Bob feels like a guy that plays werewolf but doesn't really like to play the way we do here. In that sense, I feel that he spends not that much time with the game after it started, which leads to "lazy" play, using meta and stuff. So, i'd say it's a bit in character.
100% correct.
The case against me is nonsensical. I don't even understand what Adrien's argument for lynching me is based upon- I was protecting novice, despite advocating lynching him early on? You'd think the people who yelled at me for daring to vote for him pre-Mattimeo reveal might be scummier.
Zak asking Adrien for permission to vote for me is cute. Him attacking anyone who dares post anything in my defense is scummy and an obvious attempt to railroad a bandwagon lynch based on retroactive bad vibes and contradictory accusations regarding my D1 play ("Being against role-claiming is terrible village play, so Bob must be scum! And making a case against novice so early was supernaturally good village play, so Bob must have been using insider scum knowledge!")
(February 1st, 2015, 17:01)Gazglum Wrote: Can you explain further why you are not happy?
I think strategic role reveals are the best advantage town has in this setup. I think its lazy to disingenious to say otherwise.
- If Twinkle is town, scum already know that he has a power role, because he threw away hider
- Assuming Q is town, scum already have a top priority target they need to eliminate tonight, so knowing another won't materially impact our game until at least Day 4
- If Twinkle is scum, he has a small but significant chance of being caught immediately if he roleclaims wrongly.
And i mean, we caught Novice through roleclaiming. Which I advocated then too.
I'm not saying the whole town needs to lay its cards out, though I'm not cdertain if that would really be so bad either. But anybody already under suspicion, and ESPECIALLY somebody who tosses a power role, I think should claim. Why do you disagree?
How many times do I need to explain this? Look, obviously most of us have power roles. Quite possibly all of us. It doesn't take an act of genius to figure that out. So yes, the scum know he has a power role. I have a power role. You probably have a power role, unless you're just a vanilla Goon.
The point is that the scum don't know which power roles we are. What if I'm forced to reveal to avoid a lynch, and my role is really good? I'll die in the night. What if I'm a Lover, and my death takes down a Mason and/or Cop? Or if my role is something mediocre, the scum know they can safely ignore me for a while, shrinking the pool of prime targets. This reasoning applies to everyone.
You are correct that revealing could catch scum who claim a taken role, but even this has downsides. Downside #1: the scum could claim an unoccupied role and, not being challenged, gain completely undeserved village cred, especially if the role is one where they can easily fake night results. Downside #2: if the scum claims something vital like, say, Doctor, then person who actually has the role can only call them out by exposing themselves. In fact, were I scum, I would claim Doctor at this point no matter what, since a Doctor cannot self-protect and the only other possible village protective role would block the Doctor from helping anyone. If nobody contests the Doctor claim, then the scum know the village likely doesn't have one at all, which is also invaluable information.
Look, I think all of this really ought to be obvious. I think a number of the people calling for role reveals under pressure know better, and that's what makes me suspicious of you.
Meiz Wrote:And then against Molach, again not realizing the point he was saying at all. To me that looks like a scum who went through the thread to find something to attack, and it's very easy to lose the context when doing that. Both scream faked attacks to me.
Did you even read my post at all? My primary reason for voting Molach is his voting record, which has miraculously gone otherwise unexamined here.
As for TT, I didn't know he was offline during the period I found suspicious because I don't follow him around and survey his sleeping patterns. Behold how I stopped voting for him after this was explained. Although people then got pissed that I switched votes (I didn't even have anyone on me until I did), so bite me. Go bother "Danger Zone" Jowy if you want to attack people for voting with minimal reasoning.
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