WW35: Not Another TPS Report [Game Thread]

[Qgqqqqq]

Ah, sorry.

Zakalwe: IMO has just been reading very well this whole time, probing the right people, making the right points. Besides, he just reads very towny.

Erode into this (day 4):

Zakalwe...I can't get a read on. He's been saying the right things, making the right cases, but he feels...off. He feels like he's had less of a presence, more been agreeing with other peoples cases then making ones of his own and just generally strikes a bad chord on some level.
At the same time...he's made the most posts of everyone, and he does seem to be saying the right stuff so...idk. He's not a player I find easy to read at the best of times.

If you don't find me easy to read, why were you so sure about me after day 1? And what did I do in the meantime to lose your trust?

Do you want to comment on this, Q? Also, could you explain how you recognized Bob as town?
[/quote]

It's an instinctive thing - I haven't been able to take the time to reread or anything so those were simply my reactions to your presence in the thread. A part of it is perhaps just the entropy that occurs to reads over time as they go unchallenged, but I definitely think the feeling of your presence has changed since the early game. Day 1 I certainly felt you were pushing the right buttons and reacting well, but since then...I feel like you faded into the background more. Which is odd, considering you've still got by far the most posts, but it's definitely the feeling I got - that you were still participating, but weren't trying to drive it anymore. That's something I've been seeing more since last night, but it was lacking for a long time, imo.

As to finding you easy to read...how to put this. I feel like you have a similar playstyle to mine, in that you're around for long periods, and generally making good posts, supporting people, probing about things that come up. By "right" and "good" posts, I mean that if we see a new player making a mechanical error - say, Dtay editing his posts - you're one of the most likely people to pop up and correct them. I'd put myself in a similar camp (see, say, me quoting the standard rules in the previous game), and it's one of the things that I subconsciously look for as "easy" town points - I'll still be suspicious if there's no real content, but that sort of interaction is something I find inherently towny, despite the fact that, in many ways, it's something done as both town and scum, especially by you. Thus, I have a tendency to clear you, at least in my own mind, earlier and easier than I ought, unless you're doing something I find obviously suspicious I tend to push you into that camp.

This game is an example of that. You played well on day 1, hit all the right notes for me, and seemed to be scumreading alongside it. Later, well, what I said above, so you slid back into null, and the intangibles about your presence, which I hadn't really been able to articulate until it reappeared recently, made me doubting.

(Which isn't to say you're cleared - but that's what gave me a bad feeling, and given the circumstances of it (meta-based lynches, and so on) I can understand why it would disappear only to resurface today.)


As to Bob. Again, it came down to a lot of feelings on his play, which just felt right with what he's done in previous games as town and, to me, perfectly fitting with his personality in general, where a lot of complaints centred around things that I just found to be the way he played. Besides, I thought the arguments against him were pretty weak, and that a lot of them came down to the claim vs. no-claim debate of day 1, which I thought was irrelevant to ones scumminess but that (I thought/think that) the pro-claimers were trying to construe it as strongly-scummy.

Cross posting from ages back.

[Jkaen]

Don't know if Jkaen as scum would push a hopeless case, but it looks scummy to me now.

.... zakalwe's .....No smoking gun here, and I suppose it's good that zak is consistent in his suspicion of Bob, but it doesn't read well to me imo. His posting in the rest of the game has been good overall, so possibly he just made a mistake wrt Bob.

My thoughts about a possible Q/TT scumteam: ..... I kind of doubt that Q and TT are actually mafia together, but it wouldn't be out of the question.

Jabbz, Jkaen and Meiz are town. Molach and zakalwe I'm not sure about but they are most likely town too.

Qgqqqqq is definitely scum.

Just looking at my last page of his posts, Q clearly isnt his scum partner. Based upon his post 2 I would suspect Molach or Zak. Zak a few times, as in post 1 he has half heartedly waved comments around on, Molach he seems to have avoided talking about.

Based on him being a newbie wolf, I would say avoiding drawing attention to the scum mate is the most likely tell, so purely off his reactions I would say Molach is the partner.

Given Molach has managed to avoid attention all game, which as a scum powerole (assuming here he is one of roleblocker / strongman) is what you want be trying to do I see that as reasonable.

Note however I just realised this requires him to show up as either roleblocker or strongman.

If he flips goon, then one of Jabbz or Q needs to be lying, he is pushing Q way too hard at this point of the game to be his partner, so the partner is Jabbz.

[Qgqqqqq]

...
That's why I don't think Jabbz is scum, especially if we have just one scum player left. His good posting on Day 3/4 gives me town reads on him too, and I agree that TT and Q were trying to push a misynch on Jabbz D1. I like my Q case better. Yes it's pretty sudden but I believe strongly in it and I don't want to let scum win because I was unwilling to take a risk and call out my biggest scum read.

TT and I were hardly pushing him cocurrently. TT voted him after the train on novice was already in full swing, I'd voted him way earlier, before going to sleep and only waking up at the end. I wouldn't even describe TT's post as pushing him, here's what he said:

...
Jowy summed up the case on Jabbz pretty well, though I have to say that if he hadn't made that post,I doubt that I would've noticed Jabbz enough to vote for him.

Out of those three, I'm voting for Jabbz as I don't want to risk a power role dying early when they can easily be checked or proven overnight.

It's very much a last chance to save a fellow scum (or a PR, as he put it), and very much not pushing a mislynch.

The only person who really pushed alongside me is Zak, but that wouldn't fit well with your 1-scum theory, would it? Why am I scummy for pushing him (many hours before the novice-reveal), but not Zak?

For scum trying to mislynch Jabbz, Jkaen is the best remaining target, given his late join-in. This looks like so much confirmation bias that it hurts.


Huh, Molach was on Jabbz day 1. This is the post, coming before my/Matt's reveals. Molach, did you get a chance to hop on before the lynch? Was there anything else where you elaborated on your vote?

[Qgqqqqq]

If Fenn is mafia then he is not alone.
ppl voting him, who do you reckon is his pardner?

Hum. Jabbz, or - and this is a bit left-field - Zak are my guesses. Zakalwe's been low-key pushing Fenn for a couple of days now, even so far back as day 3, IIRC, but never voting him till now. I actually wondered a while back (when I was thinking about scumpartners for Zak, not Fenn, funnily enough) whether they might be serving as a duo. Today has obviously dissuaded that option a bit, but it's still something to consider (with a late-day vote switch aimed at being sure to cement it).

[Qgqqqqq]

(@Fenn: What made you sure Jkaen/Jabbz are town? In post 1532.)

[Jkaen]

I have a theory on that. Do you want me to answer first, though?

Ok mr mysterious, you going to give your thoughts, or are you still waiting on others?

[Qgqqqqq]

Rereading, let's examine this bit by bit:

Q's request at the end of Day 1 to be jailed is curious. It prevents him from getting a scan off, and since Mattimeo was obviously going to die Q wasn't going to be scanned himself, nor be the mafia's target. Also prevents him from proving his innocence by sharing scans, or really proving anything. It's just a terrible idea from a town cop - Bob might have had the same idea too, he never said who he targeted N1. A mafia Q however loses very little by being blocked; only if he is the strongman and a doctor protects Mattimeo would it matter to him, and with one Doctor and the backup doc being discarded Mattimeo might not be protected anyway - especially if the jailer is focused on Q.

Explained why I did it. Do you disagree with the explanation? If so, please elaborate.

Also, your entire case seems predicated on me being the sole remaining scum, as strongarm. So why does that matter to mafia-me?

And, if Jailer would have been better served protecting Matt, as your last bit alludes to, what is wrong with him protecting me? Actually, put that more generally - who should Bob defend if not one of the claimed cops?

I mean, mafia are going to want us dead more than anything else. Should he just ignore us, and wifom on another player (who is all but certain not to be targeted), or what?

Was Q in danger of being scanned last night? Yes, but not as much as he claims. Mattimeo was going to die so he can't get results, and if there really were 2 town Cops then imo the second would have claimed in the face of top suspects novice and Q both claiming cop in addition to Mattimeo. Scum could only kill person per night after all. So that only leaves one plausible cop scan, from a cop lover, and there's no guarantee that he'd scan Q over a player who didn't look especially townie or scummy like Jkaen or Molach - or Meiz, as Rowain did. Besides, with one sycophant out of 4 going to be lynched on Day 1 with no confirmed SKs, I'd wager that the mafia team would want to play the odds with a risky gambit.

What? One sycophant out of 4 being lynched? Who was that - because it wasn't novice before I claimed, and I was being voted primarily to try and get a claim out (which we saw, with everyone jumping boat ASAP and no one choosing me over novice later on). So again we're left with why claim cop against fellow mafia, especially over another role - all of which have better % odds of not getting novice or myself lynched.

Since then his play has not been inspiring. Q and TT take some shots at each other but neither of them ever actually vote for each other. This is the scummiest part of their play imo - if you're suspicious of somebody why don't you vote for them? TT's early day 2 play reads of him sabotaging his own case on Q. Q's tactic on Days 3/4 of holding back his scan results is bizarre, smacks of retroactive justification and doesn't help town in any way. It's gambits for the sake of gambits.

...I like to think I've done slightly more this game then solely ignore TT. Leaving that aside, I never voted TT day 2 because I thought the Jkaen side to that wasn't getting enough attention/response (and Jabbz killed the wagon at lynchtime), and day 3 we had the Ichabod matter to resolve.

As to holding back my scans... a) I think there was a pretty clear reason that helped town day 3, getting reads on peoples reactions to Meiz/generating discussion on a day which could easily have been as sleepy as day 4 and b) I didn't hold it back on day 4. Besides, how does it help scum to hold back who I scanned?

TT's been going after Q off and on since Day 1, but his behaviour on Day 3/4 in particular smells of a doomed scum trying to clear his partner by association. He didn't stick his neck out and vote for Q until it was far too late for it to matter. His distancing was so blatant I think it was intended to be seen through.

Tomorrow let's lynch Qgqqqqq, he should flip as Mafia Strongman. Yeah I said he was town earlier, but past me had no idea what he was talking about. If Q flips scum and the game isn't over yet zakalwe would be my next choice. Don't like how TT historically ignored him and how zak didn't comment at all on Q holding back his night results.

I know we can take this home, guys. Just a little bit further to go!

None of the rest is an argument on me.


So yeah, I'm not seeing much substance to this case, and it stinks of just jumping eagerly to push forward a mislynch. That it's at night is to your merit, though, so I'm not sure that you're not just misguided town. Uhh.


Night for now.

[zakalwe]

I have a theory on that. Do you want me to answer first, though?

Ok mr mysterious, you going to give your thoughts, or are you still waiting on others?

I guess we're all still waiting for Jabbz, in general, but I'll go ahead and say that I agree with Q. I think it's Fenn and Jabbz.

I have reread Q's day 1 and I can't make it fit with him being on a scum gambit. Fenn's case looks like it's assembled from bits and pieces that have been dropped recently in the thread, and isn't actually founded in a reread, at all.

I didn't mean to be mysterious, I just didn't want everybody to just repeat my own reads back to me. So unless Molach wanted me to answer specifically, I preferred to wait.

Feeling pretty good about Fenn + Jabbz as scum by elimination, too, at this point.

[Molach]

@Q - in response to #1593.

I was voting Jabbz the whole day. I logged on before lynch and saw the claims, but kept vote on Jabbz "not wanna lynch possible cop". Novice then got the noose.

[BRickAstley]

Tally as of post 1599:

3 votes: Fenn (Jkaen, Qgqqqqq, zakalwe)
2 votes: Qgqqqqq (Fenn, Molach)

Voting history:

Fenn

Qgqqqqq

Fenn

Qgqqqqq

Fenn

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