My read on Jabbz:
Joke vote on Zak, fine w/e, though he was town fwiw
Somewhat joking seeming accusations against Rowain, Adrien, and Zak
Points out Saul mistaking my identity
Then
[quote=Jabbz]
Saul's play is the only stuff today that actually stands out as scummy. Everything else is kind of wishy washy, maybe scum, maybe joke, etc. This stuff though... It looks like someone trying to float on by without attracting much attention.
[/quote]
So at this point very sure Saul is scum or at least a lot more sure compared to anyone else. Everything else is “wishy washy”, saul is “scummy”
Only stated reason is “float on by without attracting much attention”, which given Saul had to this point contributed more than Jabbz himself had (or Matt, or Sunrise, and probably a few others not thinking of atm) had, seems illogical.
Gets annoyed at Gaz trying to “throw Saul a lifeline”, which I don’t think makes sense but doesn’t tilt me really one way or the other on town/scum atm
Clarifies his earlier accusation against Adrien was a joke, so to this point we have 4 joke posts, the 1 liner pointing out saul’s mistake, the 1 liner accusing saul that doesn’t have an arg, , and the gaz 1 liner.
Votes for Saul, no additional reasoning stated.
Jabbz defends against me, saying his case is fleshed out. This is… very wrong. His case in total consists of 0 actually stated reasons besides “saul looks suspicious”, and 1 inferrable reason that Saul mixed up me and someone else, which wasn’t even referenced in the later voting or case posts. Weird.
Here’s Jabbz’s presentation of the case, there isn’t anything else he left off:
[quote=Jabbz]
I think it's pretty obvious if you don't just look at the post where I voted, but what led to the entire conversation.
(February 18th, 2015 11:18)Jabbz Wrote: I thought Dtay was new to WW. Is this perhaps a wolf covering for another wolf, without actually making sure he has played with him before?
A slip of the magnitude that Saul made is substantial. He then doubles down on it as you will note below.
(February 18th, 2015 11:38)Doctor Saul Wrote: I remember playing with dtay before, and he was aggressive then. and I've been away a while from ww so he's certainly not new to rb or ww
On top of that, I added this.
(February 18th, 2015 11:53)Jabbz Wrote: Saul's play is the only stuff today that actually stands out as scummy. Everything else is kind of wishy washy, maybe scum, maybe joke, etc. This stuff though... It looks like someone trying to float on by without attracting much attention.
So yeah. It's a fairly fleshed out case, at least day one wise. The way Dtay is defending Saul, and the way he jumped off as soon as the train got momentum makes him look pretty scummy too.
[/quote]
Restates that mistaking my identity is “pretty big”.
This post:
[quote=Jabbz]
I'd repost it again, but I'm fairly certain you will ignore it again. I made an observation. You and he both jumped as if I'd stuck a flaming brand down your britches. You then went into hyper defensive mode. That made me change my vote from a 100% joke vote on Zak, to a 50% serious vote on Saul. Now its 100%, and you're next.
[/quote]
Which amusingly is actually the most descriptive he’s been up to this point as to why exactly he’s voting for Saul, referencing for the first time Saul and my defensive reactions.
Is offline for a while, catches up, then explicitely votes to policy lynch matt.
Pushes against the people voting for Fenn that they should be voting for Matt instead. This is good, town points for this.
Then kind of hints he’d back off of Matt here, which doesn't look good in retrospect
[quote=Jabbz]
I'm still not convinced of Saul's innocence, but since all I have on him is an overly defensive behavior, similar to dtay's, all I think that really warrants is keeping an eye on him. Mattimeo I almost don't want to lynch, because he died so early last game, but I feel that's a terrible reason to keep him in. Zak I'm TOTALLY down with hanging, but we all know my reasons for that are incredibly petty. (On a side note, I really hope you're scum Zak, so I can put my hands on the rope later )
Distrusts the switch to Zak
[quote=Jabbz]
I am really worried by this last minute swing to Zak. It seriously strikes me as planned/contrived early on. Zak is playing Zakish. It feels like wolves predicted this, laid a few breadcrumbs, and jumped on him last minute. Maybe I"m over reading it, but we went from Zak seems weird to, Zak must die, in the last 30 minutes of the day. I'm inherently distrustful of last minute swings like that.
[/quote]
Still hounding Saul in context of Matt lynch. Ok logic.
Says this:
[quote=Jabbz]
I slapped my vote on Mattimeo because the lynch on you looked highly suspicious. I detailed exactly why it was problematic, but I'll be happy to explain to you yet again. The timing of your attack was what bothered me. When I had last logged off, the only comments about you were mostly jokes. I came back, and all of the sudden you are a serious contender for lynching. I looked at the timing, and it appeared the entire event started in the last 30 minutes. That smacked to me of scum action, so I took action to oppose it.
My comments of 'policy lynch' were to let matt, and others know, that I wasn't voting matt because I thought he was scummy, but because if someone had to go, I was more ok with it being the guy that had contributed so little. Hence, lynch on policy, rather than on content. Given that I wasn't running a wagon, I'm not entirely sure how you feel I was undermining it.
[/quote]
Which is misstating the order of his vote on Matt and the Zak lynch, though he admits it a few posts later and says he misremembered. Slightly scummy, could be honest mistake. I agree with him about the zak timing being inherently suspicious.
Talks a lot about hwo he doesn’t have reads besides Saul and me, and says he’ll know more when people die. Gets in argument with lew about this I don’t think I need to reproduce, not that important.
Reiterates thinks saul’s reactions “sealed the deal” because he defended himself.
[quote=Jabbz]
it was your behavior as you insisted you were right, coupled with other arguments you made up to that point, that tipped the scale. Even then it was more a marker that you were suspicious, than a I want to lynch you. That didn't occur till it looked like dtay was overzealous in coming to your defense, despite the fact that he had a vote on you earlier.
[/quote
I in general don’t like the way the Saul case came together. Expounded at length on why the mixup is a null tell for me, and the defensiveness I think should also be a null tell, why wouldn’t a villager think this is silly as well? The case also came together retroactively, with Jabbz stating over and over Saul was scummy / he suspected Saul, claiming his case was thorough, before ever actually mentioning WHAT his case was. You could infer the mixup thing since Jabbz was the one to point that out initially, but the defensiveness stuff doesn’t come up until wayyy after the fact.
Finally explains why he’s done defending.
Net: Scummy, but I still like my Fenn vote more. Don’t like at all the way the whole Saul case was handled and came together, and jabbz notably has 0 reads not originating from the Saul case (saul and then me arguing the saul wagon was bad). So the lack of activity is additionally scummy. However, I do think that him pushing for people to get off of Fenn and onto Matt (pretty unambiguously, if only for that 1 post) feels very towny. Basically that 1 post makes me want to vote fenn over him, especially sicne Fenn (and Qqqqqq, AND Jabbz) all have a low amount of reads and cases made, so they share that datapoint.
Jabbz notably could easily be Scum along with one of Qqqqq or Fenn in my mind. Maybe that Fenn post is defending Fenn? Except he’s pushing them onto ANOTHER scum. Scum pushing votes from scum to scum? Weird. I think Jabbz / Qqqqq is a more likely pair (if there is a pair).
Anyway, vote still on Fenn, but still net scummy lean on jabbz.
It’s annoying that I get scum-leans on all 3 of these people up for lynch, yet I’d bet the most likely number of scum up is only 1.
Joke vote on Zak, fine w/e, though he was town fwiw
Somewhat joking seeming accusations against Rowain, Adrien, and Zak
Points out Saul mistaking my identity
Then
[quote=Jabbz]
Saul's play is the only stuff today that actually stands out as scummy. Everything else is kind of wishy washy, maybe scum, maybe joke, etc. This stuff though... It looks like someone trying to float on by without attracting much attention.
[/quote]
So at this point very sure Saul is scum or at least a lot more sure compared to anyone else. Everything else is “wishy washy”, saul is “scummy”
Only stated reason is “float on by without attracting much attention”, which given Saul had to this point contributed more than Jabbz himself had (or Matt, or Sunrise, and probably a few others not thinking of atm) had, seems illogical.
Gets annoyed at Gaz trying to “throw Saul a lifeline”, which I don’t think makes sense but doesn’t tilt me really one way or the other on town/scum atm
Clarifies his earlier accusation against Adrien was a joke, so to this point we have 4 joke posts, the 1 liner pointing out saul’s mistake, the 1 liner accusing saul that doesn’t have an arg, , and the gaz 1 liner.
Votes for Saul, no additional reasoning stated.
Jabbz defends against me, saying his case is fleshed out. This is… very wrong. His case in total consists of 0 actually stated reasons besides “saul looks suspicious”, and 1 inferrable reason that Saul mixed up me and someone else, which wasn’t even referenced in the later voting or case posts. Weird.
Here’s Jabbz’s presentation of the case, there isn’t anything else he left off:
[quote=Jabbz]
I think it's pretty obvious if you don't just look at the post where I voted, but what led to the entire conversation.
(February 18th, 2015 11:18)Jabbz Wrote: I thought Dtay was new to WW. Is this perhaps a wolf covering for another wolf, without actually making sure he has played with him before?
A slip of the magnitude that Saul made is substantial. He then doubles down on it as you will note below.
(February 18th, 2015 11:38)Doctor Saul Wrote: I remember playing with dtay before, and he was aggressive then. and I've been away a while from ww so he's certainly not new to rb or ww
On top of that, I added this.
(February 18th, 2015 11:53)Jabbz Wrote: Saul's play is the only stuff today that actually stands out as scummy. Everything else is kind of wishy washy, maybe scum, maybe joke, etc. This stuff though... It looks like someone trying to float on by without attracting much attention.
So yeah. It's a fairly fleshed out case, at least day one wise. The way Dtay is defending Saul, and the way he jumped off as soon as the train got momentum makes him look pretty scummy too.
[/quote]
Restates that mistaking my identity is “pretty big”.
This post:
[quote=Jabbz]
I'd repost it again, but I'm fairly certain you will ignore it again. I made an observation. You and he both jumped as if I'd stuck a flaming brand down your britches. You then went into hyper defensive mode. That made me change my vote from a 100% joke vote on Zak, to a 50% serious vote on Saul. Now its 100%, and you're next.
[/quote]
Which amusingly is actually the most descriptive he’s been up to this point as to why exactly he’s voting for Saul, referencing for the first time Saul and my defensive reactions.
Is offline for a while, catches up, then explicitely votes to policy lynch matt.
Pushes against the people voting for Fenn that they should be voting for Matt instead. This is good, town points for this.
Then kind of hints he’d back off of Matt here, which doesn't look good in retrospect
[quote=Jabbz]
I'm still not convinced of Saul's innocence, but since all I have on him is an overly defensive behavior, similar to dtay's, all I think that really warrants is keeping an eye on him. Mattimeo I almost don't want to lynch, because he died so early last game, but I feel that's a terrible reason to keep him in. Zak I'm TOTALLY down with hanging, but we all know my reasons for that are incredibly petty. (On a side note, I really hope you're scum Zak, so I can put my hands on the rope later )
Distrusts the switch to Zak
[quote=Jabbz]
I am really worried by this last minute swing to Zak. It seriously strikes me as planned/contrived early on. Zak is playing Zakish. It feels like wolves predicted this, laid a few breadcrumbs, and jumped on him last minute. Maybe I"m over reading it, but we went from Zak seems weird to, Zak must die, in the last 30 minutes of the day. I'm inherently distrustful of last minute swings like that.
[/quote]
Still hounding Saul in context of Matt lynch. Ok logic.
Says this:
[quote=Jabbz]
I slapped my vote on Mattimeo because the lynch on you looked highly suspicious. I detailed exactly why it was problematic, but I'll be happy to explain to you yet again. The timing of your attack was what bothered me. When I had last logged off, the only comments about you were mostly jokes. I came back, and all of the sudden you are a serious contender for lynching. I looked at the timing, and it appeared the entire event started in the last 30 minutes. That smacked to me of scum action, so I took action to oppose it.
My comments of 'policy lynch' were to let matt, and others know, that I wasn't voting matt because I thought he was scummy, but because if someone had to go, I was more ok with it being the guy that had contributed so little. Hence, lynch on policy, rather than on content. Given that I wasn't running a wagon, I'm not entirely sure how you feel I was undermining it.
[/quote]
Which is misstating the order of his vote on Matt and the Zak lynch, though he admits it a few posts later and says he misremembered. Slightly scummy, could be honest mistake. I agree with him about the zak timing being inherently suspicious.
Talks a lot about hwo he doesn’t have reads besides Saul and me, and says he’ll know more when people die. Gets in argument with lew about this I don’t think I need to reproduce, not that important.
Reiterates thinks saul’s reactions “sealed the deal” because he defended himself.
[quote=Jabbz]
it was your behavior as you insisted you were right, coupled with other arguments you made up to that point, that tipped the scale. Even then it was more a marker that you were suspicious, than a I want to lynch you. That didn't occur till it looked like dtay was overzealous in coming to your defense, despite the fact that he had a vote on you earlier.
[/quote
I in general don’t like the way the Saul case came together. Expounded at length on why the mixup is a null tell for me, and the defensiveness I think should also be a null tell, why wouldn’t a villager think this is silly as well? The case also came together retroactively, with Jabbz stating over and over Saul was scummy / he suspected Saul, claiming his case was thorough, before ever actually mentioning WHAT his case was. You could infer the mixup thing since Jabbz was the one to point that out initially, but the defensiveness stuff doesn’t come up until wayyy after the fact.
Finally explains why he’s done defending.
Net: Scummy, but I still like my Fenn vote more. Don’t like at all the way the whole Saul case was handled and came together, and jabbz notably has 0 reads not originating from the Saul case (saul and then me arguing the saul wagon was bad). So the lack of activity is additionally scummy. However, I do think that him pushing for people to get off of Fenn and onto Matt (pretty unambiguously, if only for that 1 post) feels very towny. Basically that 1 post makes me want to vote fenn over him, especially sicne Fenn (and Qqqqqq, AND Jabbz) all have a low amount of reads and cases made, so they share that datapoint.
Jabbz notably could easily be Scum along with one of Qqqqq or Fenn in my mind. Maybe that Fenn post is defending Fenn? Except he’s pushing them onto ANOTHER scum. Scum pushing votes from scum to scum? Weird. I think Jabbz / Qqqqq is a more likely pair (if there is a pair).
Anyway, vote still on Fenn, but still net scummy lean on jabbz.
It’s annoying that I get scum-leans on all 3 of these people up for lynch, yet I’d bet the most likely number of scum up is only 1.
Fear cuts deeper than swords.
If the premise is that I'm lying about being a cautious player...a) trust me, I'll confirm it post game, that's simply how I roll, remind me post fame and I'll confirm it and b) it even came up when I was chatting to you during '35. Also, I get lynched far more than you guys give me credit for - more as town than scum, but still. And again, how did I get caught up in last minute actions when I, in fact, pretty well instigated them?
