{SPOILERS} 2metra, Dreylin & OT4E. This is the beginning of a wonderful friendship.

[Dreylin]

That's our AP city unless we settled another since then; losing that would be game over most likely - no way he'll accept peace if he can take that out.

[OT4E]

So we lost wonder city, right?

[2metraninja]

It was game over long ago in my judgement. But of course not all games can be won.

He not taking the peace is opportunistic, but poor decision. Now I will use all that we have to wreck his ride. Yes, first-signal (not 100% sure if this is even a term in English), but that is what one gets.

[Dreylin]

We're still alive? Can you give us an update; who is going to eat us; dtay or Joey?

[2metraninja]

Hey there. I am not famous for being a detailed chronicles writer at all, but I will throw a quick update.

We are far from being eaten as far as I can tell. We are keeping up with the power rating of our neighbors and in fact we are ahead in the military technologies. We have infantries and MGs riding extensive railroad domestic network, while both Dtay and GJ have still only rifles. In the sea we have ironclads and $hitload of carracks and galleys which can be upgraded to frigates and galleons quick. But we are small and we have no where to expand really. Which is the case since the beginning of the game and we could not make this change much.

As I see it we either have to sit back on our bottoms and wait for the game to be called or we have a chance to wreck the ride of one of our neighbors. But of course we have 2 neighbors who will not just stay watching us rampage.

If we feel turtling is boring, variant 1 is to upgrade our fleet and use it to keep off GJ while we make one more push in to Dtay's territory. Which could be satisfying in one way as he was our main competitor and he squeezed us settling behind the central line (yes, I do believe in the "central line") and he refused to show mercy and give us peace when he was about to raze our AP city. I am not some crazy motherfucker and I can see when I am outplayed and can appreciate when I am given mercy, but he preferred to raze it and keep the war going.

Variant 2 is to accept it was us who attacked Dtay 3 or 4 or 5? times and we deserved his hatred, get peace from him (last time he offered some money along with the peace offer so I think he will be happy to get rid of our war if we offer peace) and move full power to GJ to punish him for his stabbing us in the back when he killed our wounded from fighting our common enemy REM/AI army on the Middle Earth. He hardly have more than 15-20 units in the ex-REM/AI mainland and we can transport like 100 modern units there in 2-3 turns. Problems to be solved in the near future with this plan are:
- what will Dtay do when the 10-turn peace runs out?
- what if GJ have his main army in ships between the ex-REM/AI lands and the Middle Earth and embark 100 units of his own in a single turn to face our invading army? I have a lot of spies in the land, so I can tell the land is free from army, but what about the sea?
- what we will do when GJ get his army together and transport it against us?
- what will his defensive-pact partner Gavagai do when he finds himself in war with us due to the DP? His fleet coming to aid his ally can easily tip the balance of power in the sea very bad.
- can we gain something in terms of land and future potential beside getting revenge on GJ?

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I will be happy to hear your thoughts guys.


So much about the game situation. Now a bit of "meta-gaming" thoughts:
In my very first game here someone accused me and said he hate me for being a kingmaker. I do not see having a human reactions and feelings as something to be ashamed of. If I want to have some fun action, or some revenge, or even some sadistic satisfaction from fighting someone, and in the process I ruin someone's chances and/or give someone else better chance, I think this is perfectly normal. Not in every game one can win and realizing and accepting this when it is due is a virtue, so "play to win" sometimes is no longer applicable without diplomacy making. Or "play to best benefit your civ". Does this means living longer or finishing higher when the game is being called? In this case does sitting on my bottom make me a better civver/sportsman?

I will be glad on comments from everyone.

[Rowain]

In my very first game here someone accused me and said he hate me for being a kingmaker. I do not see having a human reactions and feelings as something to be ashamed of. If I want to have some fun action, or some revenge, or even some sadistic satisfaction from fighting someone, and in the process I ruin someone's chances and/or give someone else better chance, I think this is perfectly normal. Not in every game one can win and realizing and accepting this when it is due is a virtue, so "play to win" sometimes is no longer applicable without diplomacy making. Or "play to best benefit your civ". Does this means living longer or finishing higher when the game is being called? In this case does sitting on my bottom make me a better civver/sportsman?

I will be glad on comments from everyone.

IMO whatever you do someone will be angry about it. But as long as it has some logic (which you have given here already) I see no problems with any of your 3(?) proposed actions.

As long as you fight for your civ/ to gain something it is ok. Only when you start gifting armies / cities to others you start to be unsportmanslike.

[OT4E]

I am almost convinced to 2nd option. We must not be only driven by the hatred. We got unlucky with dtay but losing AP city is our fault, but not something unfair from him. We had to keep in the mind that he can do it any time.

Others might be willing to join us against GJ. May be not instantly but there is no trust in Commodore any more.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

I am almost convinced to 2nd option. We must not be only driven by the hatred. We got unlucky with dtay but losing AP city is our fault, but not something unfair from him. We had to keep in the mind that he can do it any time.

Others might be willing to join us against GJ. May be not instantly but there is no trust in Commodore any more.

I'm glad to see you are able to take a more positive road and see a more positive viewpoint. Showing empathy for the opponent seems to be...lacking sometimes.

[OT4E]

Do you think that it is possible to upgrade carracks to transports? As far as I know it isnt...
Delivering army with carracks in this late game is ridiculous. I doubt we can attack GJ any suddenly. He is sneaking around with spy ships pretty effective.

[2metraninja]

I think that carracks can not be upgraded to transports, as they upgrade to frigates. But we do have like 10 galleys, which can be upgraded to transports.

Out of a sudden, Commodore attacked Dtay at last. Only if he did that like 30 turns ago Dtay have strong army. I counted like 25-30 canons and 25-30 catapults last turn in one stack.