WW37- For Whom the Bell Trolls

[Lewwyn]

Yeah. Okay. Mattimeo.

[Mattimeo]

Semi-serious. He uses the same "Lynch me if you dare"-cockiness he used before as scum. If he continues it I feel obliged to do it.

Fucking hell, I can't even have a bit of fun now? :/

I just can't win with you, can I? Don't post shit, you lynch me. Post shit, you lynch me anyway.
In before zak comes in all "well, the way he was against people claiming is clearly suspicious enough for me to move my vote back now that there's support" and I die fucking d1. Again.

[Agnes The Orphan]

[quote='Jabbz' pid='529125' dateline='1426477162']
I'd love it if you could point to the place where I said I didn't like your wagon. Oh wait, that's right, you cant because I didn't say it. Try not putting words in my mouth Agnes. My observation was that I had to determine whether or not I was going to stay on you. This was something that had to be determined because, as I said before, my vote on you was about making a point, and I hadn't changed off of you yet because there was no one else scummy at that point, due to pretty limited content. Once I realized you had 3 more people on you, I had to go back and read exactly what led to those decisions, something I had simply skimmed over before due to being a little busy.

Expressing surprise in a "Holy Hell" sounds very much like you're disliking the wagon, or at least being uncertain with the company you're keeping. That it was followed with a (apparent) reconsideration of whether or not to stay on only furthers that - you're distancing yourself from the wagon that had built up steam. I'll admit to agreeing with novice that it was a overreaction - I got 4 votes this early in '35, and was lynched several days later for an entirely different matter - but to me it sounds like you know I'm village, and are already trying to back away from a mislynch. It sounds exactly the sort of post one makes shortly before jumping off, or the sort one uses to distance oneself from a wagon forming.

The question is, why do you as a townie have anything effected by their actions? If you were voting me to make a point, then kudos, go vote someone else if and when they come up, or don't. It doesn't matter. But why are you suddenly considering jumping away just because there's a large number of votes on me? The only logical conclusion is that you'd have preferred it (or been more comfortable sticking with me) if there had been less people voting me. So why are you scared of being part of a wagon? Why are you preferring to be on someone with less votes?

That's what seems scummy.

[quote]Also, I never said, or even implied that my vote was why people were on you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. Try sticking to the facts, they will get you further, and make you look less scummy in the process.
[/quote]

Oh please don't start this again. There's no benefit to attacking your accusers without base, it never helps with anything.

[quote]And lo, from beyond the horizon appears a train, and it's preparing to mow down Agnes. I mean seriously though, where the hell did that come from? In 3 pages we went from one prodding/point making vote on Agnes to four votes?[/quote]

Your emphasis on your own vote (you are the one point making vote) makes it pretty clear you believed there was a connection there. Now, you've said you hadn't read the material, so I understand if that was just what leaped out at you and you've since reconsidered, but it comes through pretty clearly here.

[Agnes The Orphan]

This time with extra formatting!

I'd love it if you could point to the place where I said I didn't like your wagon. Oh wait, that's right, you cant because I didn't say it. Try not putting words in my mouth Agnes. My observation was that I had to determine whether or not I was going to stay on you. This was something that had to be determined because, as I said before, my vote on you was about making a point, and I hadn't changed off of you yet because there was no one else scummy at that point, due to pretty limited content. Once I realized you had 3 more people on you, I had to go back and read exactly what led to those decisions, something I had simply skimmed over before due to being a little busy.

Expressing surprise in a "Holy Hell" sounds very much like you're disliking the wagon, or at least being uncertain with the company you're keeping. That it was followed with a (apparent) reconsideration of whether or not to stay on only furthers that - you're distancing yourself from the wagon that had built up steam. I'll admit to agreeing with novice that it was a overreaction - I got 4 votes this early in '35, and was lynched several days later for an entirely different matter - but to me it sounds like you know I'm village, and are already trying to back away from a mislynch. It sounds exactly the sort of post one makes shortly before jumping off, or the sort one uses to distance oneself from a wagon forming.

The question is, why do you as a townie have anything effected by their actions? If you were voting me to make a point, then kudos, go vote someone else if and when they come up, or don't. It doesn't matter. But why are you suddenly considering jumping away just because there's a large number of votes on me? The only logical conclusion is that you'd have preferred it (or been more comfortable sticking with me) if there had been less people voting me. So why are you scared of being part of a wagon? Why are you preferring to be on someone with less votes?

That's what seems scummy.

Also, I never said, or even implied that my vote was why people were on you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth. Try sticking to the facts, they will get you further, and make you look less scummy in the process.

Oh please don't start this again. There's no benefit to attacking your accusers without base, it never helps with anything.

And lo, from beyond the horizon appears a train, and it's preparing to mow down Agnes. I mean seriously though, where the hell did that come from? In 3 pages we went from one prodding/point making vote on Agnes to four votes?

Your emphasis on your own vote (you are the one point making vote) makes it pretty clear you believed there was a connection there. Now, you've said you hadn't read the material, so I understand if that was just what leaped out at you and you've since reconsidered, but it comes through pretty clearly here.

[zakalwe]

If Agnes is innocent, then your jump off her train just as it was leaving does look scummy. You should hop back on.

If Agnes is innocent, then ordering another player to 'hop back on' is pretty scummy too, Zakalwe. Doesn't this put Jabbz into a 'damned if he does/damned if he doesn't' kind of bind?

Maybe it does, if Agnes is innocent. If Agnes is scum I don't think he looks particularly scummy for the way he left, and he could still get ample towncred from rejoining the wagon.

What I was trying to say was something like this: I could change tacks and go after Jabbz on the assumption that Agnes is innocent, but I am more interested in pressuring Agnes, so I would rather have Jabbz rejoin us there.

And I do think Jabbz made an accurate prediction: once he did something scummy, we also got to see more of his towny side as he needed to defend against the resulting accusations.

[Agnes The Orphan]

Please cite where I stated that scum actively want a d1 mass claim.

Yeah, I can't provide that citation. That was me reading into your posts, where you said that scum were the only ones who would benefit from it. As noted, Agnes was more explicit about it, saying scum would be happy to go first.

Agnes has already covered the fact that precisely 0 of those 40 games of precedence are relevant in this situation, one of role madness AND disassociation of roles / alignment.

That's an overstatement by Agnes, though. We have had games where the setup process is 1) randomly assign roles, and 2) randomly assign alignments. But the way I'm parsing things, this is not one of those games. Instead, we have been warned that scum could have townish roles, and vice versa. There's a pretty significant difference, in my mind. The setup is still designed with alignments and roles considered holistically, in combination. At least that is my assumption.

Huh. You're correct. Somehow I thought it had said explicitly that they were randomized separately, which is not what it says at all. I guess I somehow parsed the '36 notes on top of these ones.

Apologies

So that's why I find it suspicious when I sense that people want to dismiss any and all claims as null tells, and establish a "nobody should bother to claim" precedent. It's entirely possible that a mass claim would tell us very little. But the "please God no mass claim" vibes are suspicious. (Also, it's a convenient thing to talk about to establish a presence in the thread. But I guess I'm equally guilty of that, so far. Meta talk is still better than no talk.)

Not quite what I was trying to say, but never mind that now.

[Agnes The Orphan]

Give it time, I'll do something scummy like I usually do, and then I'll revert to your favorite mode.

You called it!

If Agnes is innocent, then your jump off her train just as it was leaving does look scummy. You should hop back on.

Yeah, novice, you're right. The OP didn't say what I thought it did at all.

That's an odd thing to ask when you're simulatenously arguing that this game is unique out of the 40 games we've had so far.

So it does feel like you're making light of the issues scum would have with claiming, but it is consistent with your general attitude. In general though you give off this feeling of feigned nonchalance. I'm publicly disbelieving you and you're just shrugging it off. The thing that gives me pause however is that you gave me that same vibe last game, as town.

It's more how are townies going to claim any differently from one game to the next, which I don't think changes at all (not that I think there's really an underlying theme there at all). But again, I retract my point - I was wrong about how I thought this game was setup (which makes a lot more sense, too).

I don't know what more reaction you'd expect from me, though? As far as I was concerned, the town as a whole was collectively derping over how to approach this setup, and I was simply correcting it.

(It's never a good sign when you think nearly the entire town is wrong compared to you, is it?)

[Agnes The Orphan]

Semi-serious. He uses the same "Lynch me if you dare"-cockiness he used before as scum. If he continues it I feel obliged to do it

Huh, does he? I confess, that attitude is just how I think of Matt as a player. Then again, I can't remember when he was last under proper pressure as a villager.

[Agnes The Orphan]

If Agnes is innocent, then ordering another player to 'hop back on' is pretty scummy too, Zakalwe. Doesn't this put Jabbz into a 'damned if he does/damned if he doesn't' kind of bind?

I get where this is coming from, but it seems a bit of a stretch to me. Why would scum-Zak be wanting to clinch or force a town-me lynch this early on? I mean, it seems a bit of a stretch - how good does that leave him looking afterwards? And it's not like there's anyone he could save with it.

[Agnes The Orphan]

Maybe it does, if Agnes is innocent. If Agnes is scum I don't think he looks particularly scummy for the way he left, and he could still get ample towncred from rejoining the wagon.

What I was trying to say was something like this: I could change tacks and go after Jabbz on the assumption that Agnes is innocent, but I am more interested in pressuring Agnes, so I would rather have Jabbz rejoin us there.

And I do think Jabbz made an accurate prediction: once he did something scummy, we also got to see more of his towny side as he needed to defend against the resulting accusations.

Do you think one out of Jabbz/I is scum?


Bah, why is no one online when I am? Night all.