RBP3 - [SPOILERS] - Team DIM (Mehmed of HRE)

[Ilios]

or we could call it Ankh-Morpork if you're a Terry Pratchett fan...

[meatbalz]

what do you guys think of this plan?

T1 found, start ag, start warrior. 2/1/1 plain sheep worked
...
T8 warrior 1 done, scout 2 1/15
...
T11 capital size 2, work 2/1/1 sheep and 1/2/0 hill. Ag done, AH started w/ 2 overflow. Food box 0/22; scout 2 7/15. worker 0/60
...
T21 worker 1 done, AH 102/144. work 2/1/1 sheep and 2/0/1 grass. worker farms wheat (5 turns), scout 2 7/15
...
T25 scout 2 done, warrior 2 started. AH done, mining started with 2 overflow (1t). work 4/1/2 sheep and 2/0/1 grass, food 8/24
T26 warrior 2 2/15, food 12/24, mining 14/90, worker moves to sheep
T27 warrior 2 4/15, food 16/24, mining 26/90, worker pastures sheep (4 turns)
T28 warrior 2 6/15, food 20/24, mining 38/90, sheep 3 turns
T29 warrior 2 8/15, food 00/26, mining 50/90, sheep 2 turns, work 4/1/2 sheep, 0/3/0 plains hill forst, 1/2/0 grass hill forest
T30 warrior 2 done, food 01/26, mining 61/90, sheep 1 turn, work 4/1/2 sheep, 4/1/0 wheat, 1/2/0 grass forest hill. start settler 1
T31 settler 1 10/100, mining 72/90, worker moves to grass hill N-NW of capital
T32 settler 1 20/100, mining 83/90, worker gazes wistfully into the distance
T33 settler 1 30/100, BW started 4 overflow, worker mines (4 turns)
T34 settler 1 40/100, BW 15/216
T36 settler 1 60/100, worker mines (1t), work 4/1/2 sheep, 4/1/0 wheat, 1/3/1 river grassland mine
T37 settler 1 71/100, BW 27/216, worker starts moving with warrior 2 to designated site for city 2 (horses perhaps?)
...
T40 settler 1 done (4 overflow), BW 63/216, work 4/1/2 sheep, 4/1/0 wheat, 1/3/1 river grassland mine, warrior 3 started

[Ilios]

Looks good but a couple of remarks:

- I really don't think it's a good idea to make another scout. I'd rather make a warrior I could upgrade to an axe later on
- On turn 25, I guess you mean you work the Wheat tile (4/1/0), and not the Sheep tile (AH just came in on that turn). Didn't check yet if it affects your plan techwise
- Instead of "gazing wistfully..." why not farm the grassland for 1 turn?

[meatbalz]

Looks good but a couple of remarks:

- I really don't think it's a good idea to make another scout. I'd rather make a warrior I could upgrade to an axe later on
- On turn 25, I guess you mean you work the Wheat tile (4/1/0), and not the Sheep tile (AH just came in on that turn). Didn't check yet if it affects your plan techwise
- Instead of "gazing wistfully..." why not farm the grassland for 1 turn?

yeah, sorry, i didn't go through the rationale as i was rushing. just like i am now . will update this post as soon as i get a second

edit: yeah, you're right about the sheep, that's a mistake. will correct shortly. thanks for looking through it so carefully, that's why 3 heads are better than 1!

[dazedroyalty]

I'm not a huge fan of a second scout either. They tend to die too quickly... warrior is more versatile and if he becomes Woody II then he moves just as quick.

[Ilios]

That and scouts are only useful to pop goody huts, and I think those were voted down.

[dazedroyalty]

New turn up. I recommend moving the scout N-NW onto the other hill and then starting to sweep back down in counter clockwise fashion. Also, noticed that five teams haven't settled yet:

Pagasus
Kyan
Morgan
Dantski
Mr. Nice Guy

They all still had 11 points when the turn rolled over. So, for whatever tactical advantage that gives us...

[Ilios]

Ok for me to move on the forested hill

[meatbalz]

my thinking behind the second scout is the following
- there are 16 teams out there to be met, and a huge map. exploring it will take a long time with a scout and a warrior
- we need to leverage our advantages, just like other teams will be looking to leverage theirs. one of our strengths is that we have the potential to have much better information about the map than other teams - but we need scouts to get it.
- hunting will not be a prioritised tech if everyone's start looks like ours, meaning the other teams will be even SLOWER to meet others
- research times are SLOW. meeting teams that have researched AH, min, BW will help cut our rsch times, so the sooner we meet them the better
- with 16 teams and a possibly crowded map, diplomacy will be HUGELY important. the sooner we meet teams + initiate contact, the more likely we'll get them on our side

let's face it, those 15 hammers after the first warrior are going to go into either a warrior or a scout. that unit will be an explorer. scouts make far better explorers unless we're banking on getting woodie2.

gold will be extremely tight early on and i don't think it would make sense to upgrade a warrior to an axeman except in the direst of circumstances.

our start is slow - we'll only emerge as a contender, if at all, once CoL is rschd. we need to do our best to stay competitive in the meantime and make the most of what we have, and one of the ways to do it is to find other teams quickly. again, most teams won't have a scout out for several dozen turns.

i think it's correct that each civ you meet that's researched a tech gives a 2% discount on that tech? consider Bronze Working (200+ beakers). it's going to take us ~20 turns to land that tech, which is hideously long... is shaving 1 or 2 turns off that by meeting civs that have it worth going for a scout instead of a warrior? i would argue definitely yes since it allows us to start chopping earlier (+ get those 20 hammers/chop into play 1 or 2 turns earlier) as well as showing a strategic resource early on.

another hugely important thing is i'm sure others out there are as worried as i am about the slow early tech pace. we have 2 pretty unpopular techs. they are excellent trade material. we need to get out there and trade them! remember, tech brokering is off but trading is on.

so, i think a second scout makes a lot of sense. i'm going to have another crack at the micro plan, 1st to correct errors, 2nd because i'm sure it can be improved. having said all that, if you guys feel warrior is better, i'm happy to go along with it

[meatbalz]

oh and the scout move is fine by me, let's do it