RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Zara of the Ottomans

[Pegasus]

I have to admit I am pretty chuffed with this start. Plenty of food and hammer resource to get our game going.

Just checked Civstats and it looks like there are only 4 more teams to make their move before we reach the next turn.

I'm happy to go along the lines of researching AH first.
Warrior moving N or NE would be good to arc back round the capital.

[Sockboy]

Ok, so now that we're planted we can actually get some info out of the demog screens, so lets dig around and see what we can see... I've not really tried to do this sort of thing before, so I've got a few questions for those of you reading this, lurkers feel free to chime in Here's a copy of the screen.



At first glance they look pretty good. I've circled a few things there. First up in red, we're leading the world in GNP That's a great early game indicator there

Ok so that's got more to do with us being cultural, and actually I'm a bit confused by the numbers I'm seeing here. We're listed as 21 units of GNP. By my reckoning we should be at 8(palace income)+2(tile income)+4(culture)+4(Espionage). Now there could be a research multiplier on AH, since we've got a prereq for it, but even so that should only be 1 or 2 GNPs. What am I missing here? Anyone?

Also note that we're tied for 1st place GNP so noone who's creative is working a water tile, (I count three other teams which have the potential for it). The average is 17 GNP, so I think it's safe to say pretty much everyone is running 1c at the moment (the positive offset of the cultural teams is pulled down by Morgan who still hasn't settled yet).

Moving on we've got crop yield, we're listed as equal 2nd here despite having the same yield as the opponent best. Note the average is 3, so some people are running heavy hammers, or they've settled without a food bonus in the first ring of their capital. I would guess that the hammers are being produced for workboats, unless someone is running for Stonehenge out of the gate
Question: Why are we second place? Is this because we waited a turn to settle?

Actually I forgot to highlight production, but that tells a similar story. We get an extra hammer since we've settled on a plains hill, and we're fifth in production, so 4 other civs are running heavy hammers. People making workboats or expansive civs on worker builds are the likely candidates here. Question: Do the hammer bonii show up on this number or not? an expansive civ running 4 hammers on the city management screen should be investing 5 hammers into the worker build. Which number shows up on the demog screen, the 4 or the 5?

The final thing I've circled in the population screen. Again the weird thing is we've got tied pop with best opponent, but are now 3rd place. Does this include food in the box for breaking ties? I wouldn't think so, but there's something strange happening here.

I guess most of my questions are really on tie breakers for the various categories, since it's early days there's not too much else to get from these numbers. One other calc I did was check the number of land tiles from the domination limit numbers, I get something in the range of 4500 tiles. We'll have to check how this compares to a regulation Huge map, maybe we can tell how much water we should expect to see (My first guess? not much)

[WarriorKnight]

I might be scaring away some lurkers by answering but here goes:

We have a free beaker for GNP. Don't know how we have the other 2 for 21 though.

The 5 appears on an expansive worker scenario for production.

Something strange is happening with population. I can already tell you that everyone except the last team to settle has 1k so we should be 16th (just the way it works). Another strange thing is we are 3rd in imports/exports, despite no-one having any trade yet.

Land area is interesting. We are 15th, despite having only 1 water tile in our BFC. The average also says 8375 despite one team having not settled yet. We can conclude that most civs have a pure land start(maybe they all do, time will tell). It makes we wonder if there is any ocean on the map. Maybe there isn't due to 17 civs needing (reasonable) space to expand

At least we know we have one of the best starts, settling on a plains hill and working a 3/0/1 tile.

Where are you lurkers anyway? We don't bite (much)

[Sockboy]

Land area is interesting. We are 15th, despite having only 1 water tile in our BFC. The average also says 8375 despite one team having not settled yet. We can conclude that most civs have a pure land start(maybe they all do, time will tell). It makes we wonder if there is any ocean on the map. Maybe there isn't due to 17 civs needing (reasonable) space to expand

Good catch, I completely forgot to look at this. This changes the domination land figures a bit since I thought lake tiles counted. It drops the number of land tiles down to around 4000ish.

Most is correct, from the average values and knowing the number of civs who have settled we can say that of the other 16 teams, 14 have 9 land tiles and only 1 other team has a lake/coast tile (with one still to settle). Guess, I was wrong about the workboat builds

If there are no 5's under production does that imply that no expansive civs are going for worker first? Or that they just lack the tiles to take best advantage of their trait. the only ways I can see to get 4 hammers without a plains hill capital is if there is stone or marble on a (plains)hill in the first ring and I doubt we'll see that on a Sullla-balanced map. A quick check also shows that a forest plains hill will do it, and that's not an unlikely tile, so maybe my point stands... We'll know once cities start growing in a few turns I guess.

[plako]

You'll get 20% research bonus towards AH that explains the missing 2 units of GNP.

I'm quite certain (made some test before the latest patch) that expansive/imperialistic production bonus doesn't show up in the MFG.

[ad hoc]

If there are no 5's under production does that imply that no expansive civs are going for worker first? Or that they just lack the tiles to take best advantage of their trait. the only ways I can see to get 4 hammers without a plains hill capital is if there is stone or marble on a (plains)hill in the first ring and I doubt we'll see that on a Sullla-balanced map. A quick check also shows that a forest plains hill will do it, and that's not an unlikely tile, so maybe my point stands... We'll know once cities start growing in a few turns I guess.

doesn't a forest plains hill give three hammers, so a normal start of one hammer plus that gives four hammers. i use this often to pump out a quick work boat.

i guess if the expansive bonus doesn't show up then it's either a work boat or worker.

[Sockboy]

Cheers plako! Feel free to drop by anytime

So looks like we had the missing pieces of the puzzle already, just didn't put them together With the missing free GNP and the research bonus it all makes sense.

Even if the production bonus doesn't turn up, expansive civs should prefer to run 4 hammers over 3hammers 1 food, since they don't get a bonus on food used to produce workers. I count 6 expansive civs, and yet we're (equal) 5th in GNP with 2 production. I can only think that a couple of civs either don't start with suitable worker techs or tiles to work. Seems a bit of a waste.

Speaking of worker techs, I'm glad we started with Agriculture and not say... Fishing

[Sockboy]

doesn't a forest plains hill give three hammers, so a normal start of one hammer plus that gives four hammers. i use this often to pump out a quick work boat.

i guess if the expansive bonus doesn't show up then it's either a work boat or worker.

Yup, you're right here Ad. Makes it much more likely for each team to have a 4 hammer option. But only 4 (or less) are running it. They are good for workboats, but if you're expansive it's also an effective way for pumping out a quick first worker too.

[Pegasus]

Ok - so we are clearly behind in posts with some of the other popular teams so I think it's time to message spam a little

Turn 2 has been completed and I have ended our turn. Screenshots to follow.

[Pegasus]

The only real debate we could have this turn was to decide where we moved our warrior, and I have to admit, there wasn't much of a debate there as we all virtually agreed in tandem. Even I didn't think to suggest such a move to play devils advocate for logical reasoning.

So where did we move to. Well...



North of course onto the hill to see as far to our west as possible.

And, ughh, i'm not particularly happy with the look of that land up there.

I also went a bit picture mad, as I enjoy looking at the screenshots in the other RBP game threads. So for those of you that enjoy them too ....

The Capital Aquilonia



Being Creative will allow us to pop our Border in a couple of turns for some extra info of the land around us. And as you can see we are working the Rice tile whilst completing the worker.

I took a look at the top 5 cities and guess what ....



We get 4th

And then this this one for Sockboy who seems to be more clued in on the C&D than I am.