Beyond the Sword features

[Qgqqqqq]

Did I say that? I don't play (BTS) SP nearly enough to have developed an opinion, nor am I interested in doing so. I'm just saying based on what I've heard from others and from observing some of the CFC forums.

[fluffyflyingpig]

That the removal of the pretty absurd boosts means there's less room to be challenged. No one would argue that Deity BTS approaches Deity Warlords, let alone with Blake's AI. So there's a lower cap, and that pushes together the difficulty of the ones below, too - I can pretty handily beat Emperor AI, despite not using any SP tricks, even the obvious ones (like tech trading), and I basically never play SP. I've even beaten Deity once. So to the SP crowd at CFC, there's much less options for a equitable game, and a whole lot more score milking as the boundary to be expanded.

All from an outside observer who doesn't really follow the scene much. Sunrises' point was probably different.

I feel compelled at this juncture to point out that the final version of Warlords actually uses Blake's AI as well- an iteration which I believe is in fact superior at economic management. It has been a while since I played, but as I recall all of the non-Montyesque personalities will cottage like mad and are quite good at teching. Bear in mind too that the AI in Warlords isn't crippled by an espionage system that eats up a significant amount of its science / gold, plus fewer wonders that it derives no real benefit from.


@ Krill- Time for a Warlords PBEM, maybe?

Yeah. Blake's AI in Warlords played the best. And wasn't crippled by the economic system giving it stupid options and wonders.

Though BTS may be the first time the AI would go for an intentional culture win? My memory is pretty hazy.

[sunrise089]

All from an outside observer who doesn't really follow the scene much. Sunrises' point was probably different.

Actually you got what I intended pretty much exactly

Are so many of you guys really that disappointed by the challenge of the deity-level AI in BTS?

For me, not a strong player, it's not that Deity is too easy, it's that it's the only option that's hard. When I was a new player I really felt the differences between Prince, Monarch, and Emperor as I improved, since each level took me a lot more care to beat. As a better player now and in BtS Emperor is pretty trivial to win, and Immortal is usually a win for me if I'm playing carefully and don't roll a terrible start. But then Deity adds in huge bonuses and the difficulty sees a big spike.

Blake AI Warlords, IMHO, had more of a difficulty sweet spot in the Emperor and Immortal levels, and as a bonus also had a harder Deity level for the top players to be challenged on.

Though BTS may be the first time the AI would go for an intentional culture win? My memory is pretty hazy.

I mean credit to the devs I guess, but the only time I've been challenged by a culture win was when I forgot to ever check the victory conditions screen. Otherwise the downteching culture seeking AI pretty much waves a "kill one of my legendary cities with 2-movers" sign and is a non-factor.

[Khan]

I agree with Sunrise. I also have issue with the fact that the AI is not skilled enough, so therefore when they get these obscene boosts, sometimes there is nothing you can do on Deity. I can win games on it, but often the game is already lost very early on and I just have not realised it yet. There was a time when I had a more RB-style attitude to it and tried to overcome which could, on occasion, lead to exceptional games. However, it more often just leads to some frustration.

I suppose this is why my interest is so great in the multiplayer scene here. I can play against strong calculating opponents that win through playing better, rather than having crazy advantages.

[GermanJoey]

IIRC, Blake's AI was a mod for Warlords, wasn't it? It wasn't until BTS where his AI was included in the main game. I remember the AI for Warlords and Vanilla being super passive, but its been about a decade since I've played it. I'm certainly a lot better at the game now than I was back then though... makes it tough to compare.

[Bobchillingworth]

Nah, Blake's AI was included in Warlords via a patch. I don't remember it making the AI much better at taking territory (unlike K-Mod), but the AI became massively better at improving tiles intelligently and mobilizing a defense once invaded.