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Can I just say what a pleasure it is to watch TBS and Old Tourist fight? Two best teams in the game (yeah, I said it, even better than Krovice and Plako I think) going at it hammer and tongs with modern toys and a clearly defined set of objectives.
Although I'd also love to see a tradeoff calculation from Finarry about this vs. sinking all those hammers and upgrade gold costs into winning space before the CV goes up. Dispositionally they are incapable of ever making that choice, though.
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Amen!
I don't think FinHarry has a good idea of when the culture deadline actually IS. The old paradigm is to shut off tech waaay before now, not sure they can get a good read on TBS's plan.
Also, I don't see any indication from FinHarry that they realize how many artists are being born in the tundra. Realistically I'd they could disrupt that plan their delay the CV without having to wage land war.
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(May 7th, 2015, 11:59)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: I have 9t of peace with Joey. I don't think he'll try anything but he might if I leave him an opening, regardless of the obvious consequences to him if we fight. Well, to both of us, but whatever. He needs more army than he can produce to make a good effort against me.
Hot damn, BGN lets power go to his head. GermanJojo is that most dangerous of opponents, one who has no chance of winning but is too strong to kill. Im almost rooting for this front to become total war now. Im sure BGN is correct that it would not go well for Joey, but boldly is badly underestimating the cost to himself.
At least with Krill, BGN had a "this is the moment I lost the game" bit of humility. Hes going to lose it again if Jojo really gets his dander up.
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(May 7th, 2015, 18:08)Ceiliazul Wrote: (May 7th, 2015, 11:59)Boldly Going Nowhere Wrote: I have 9t of peace with Joey. I don't think he'll try anything but he might if I leave him an opening, regardless of the obvious consequences to him if we fight. Well, to both of us, but whatever. He needs more army than he can produce to make a good effort against me.
Hot damn, BGN lets power go to his head. GermanJojo is that most dangerous of opponents, one who has no chance of winning but is too strong to kill. Im almost rooting for this front to become total war now. Im sure BGN is correct that it would not go well for Joey, but boldly is badly underestimating the cost to himself.
At least with Krill, BGN had a "this is the moment I lost the game" bit of humility. Hes going to lose it again if Jojo really gets his dander up.
BGNs really showed two things this game. Firstly, he's much better at the mechanical aspects of playing the game than most might have graded him at prior. Sure, he's benefited from weak neighbors but he took advantage of his opportunities with some well thought-out plans. Secondly, he's woefully inexperienced in playing MP and dealing with human opponents. This has created a hubris that he's too strong to be made to pay for in a traditional sense but in a very large game has resulted in him bowing out of the contenders race for a game realistically, combining strength of play and quality of external situation, he should have won or at least been down to the wire with the two contenders. That he's made the mistakes he has and he still has a 5% shot or whatever it actually is just shows you how strong a position he's in.
Seems unfortunate he'll never get to apply those lessons in the future, since from my conversations with him on the topic, this really probably is his last hurrah at Civ MP.
I've got some dirt on my shoulder, can you brush it off for me?
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Winning the end game takes an additional player attribute that you don't take think of as being a big deal until it starts taking so long to play the turns. It's just a huge time sink (IMO) if you're going to play thoughtfully and not just blast through the turn. Someone with more experience can play more quickly, making decisions more quickly, and maybe not losing any analytical precision in the bargain, bit I'm not that kind of experience player and I really don't think BGN is either. So time becomes an element in the gameplay, possibly (probably!) limiting strategic options due to the player being either unwilling or unable to invest the time necessary to do more time intensive things in the game. That could equate to not doing micro plans you'd otherwise do, or plunging in on a modern era war where you know you'll have to take an additional thousand game actions over the course of the war, just for a few examples. So being a player (or on a team!) where the turn player(s) have enough free time to bear the additional time burden of these kinds of extensive in game actions becomes a factor in the end game. OH and Fintourist play like machines, investing time and attention that gives them a laser focus on the game, and it seems to be part of why they're so good as a team. TBS shows that one player flying solo can excel, as has BGN's play through the game from what I've seen, but you would be hard pressed to convince me that the Team Badass time advantage was completely insignificant. That isn't too take anything away from the way they play, I think it's a credit to their willingness to put the time and work in to get out the results they expect.
All that said, I think if BGN had more time, less wife agro, or some other change in circumstance (not that I'm wishing for it!!!: lol  we might see him a little more interested in directly challenging OT/TBS to go for the run himself. I think he's resigned to being runner up, not that I've talked to him or read more than the last week or two of his thread. I just don't think he has the time to put in to make it possible.
(Tablet post, forgive any broken sentences, it's time to sleep)
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In fewer words, BGN gave up on winning a while ago due to the time commitment and therefore doesn't care as much about pissing off Joey. And Joey can't really hurt if BGN isn't going for the win anyway.
Can't say I blame him.
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Is there a way to lessen the time sink of the endgame other than "win before it gets there" and "play on small maps"? What kind of ramifications would there be if number of cities maintenance kept growing (instead of stopping at 6 GPT/city) to discourage larger empires? Would games stagnate (since there's no reason to go to war to get cities after a point), or would the large armies just be built more slowly?
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(May 8th, 2015, 01:14)Cheater Hater Wrote: Is there a way to lessen the time sink of the endgame other than "win before it gets there" and "play on small maps"? Nukes.
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The question still is if commitment > aluminium though...
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It is sad that 2 of the 3 possible winners are now out of town/need Subs. Especially in the case of TBS.
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