RBPB3 - Gandhi of the Egyptians

[novice]

Could you sum up your production plan without resorting to big spreadsheets?

Worker->Warrior->Worker->Settler (chopped) or what?
And Dunmanifestin goes Obelisk first (chopped), then granary?

[Krill]

Yeah, I'm not going to do any spreadsheets for this game. That's alot of effort, and I don't see the need; they only make sense for explaining what is happening to turnplayers and lurkers.

Worker>warrior>settler is as far as I'm looking right now. That settler should finish around t35, but another warrior after that while growing to size 4 is the most prudent thing I can think of afterwards.

Hopefully I land Hinduism into Dunmanifestin, in which case I don't need an obelisk asap, so either I build that or a warrior.

I will, however, be in drastic need of workers afterwards, and I would like granaries...

So, the 6 techs that I want are (Mining fourth is a certainty with the gold):

1. Masonry
   
2. Monotheism (Judaism, Theology Bulb)
   
3. Priesthood (Oracle? Theo bulb)
   
4. Writing (CoL oracled/Theo bulb)
   
5. Pottery (Granaries, cottages)
   
6. Bronze Working (Chopping quick Oracle? More workers?)

I don't know the order. I'm keeping an eye on the GNP number, because I'm considering going for the Oracle, getting CoL, going to caste, getting a GS as my first GP from Dun, bulb Philo, revolt to pacifism, and get a GP from AM to bulb Theo. It'd take something like 13 turns to get both GP. Only problem is, I'd need Maths and Alpha to bulb Philo...so that's a no go, but OTOH, I don't need the GS that quickly for the bulb because no one else can get Philo that quickly either.

I'd like to Oracle CoL anyway, it's a solid tech to trade to others, and I can make use of the gpp very easily, and I can build it in 10 turns at size 6 without any chops. And if I lose Judaism...I still have another religion. And it's a very cheap way of generating a GS for an academy if I have to go that way. But I can't really see a way of not going for Pottery unless I play the game very conservatively, artificially keeping city sizes low.

OTOH, going pottery fifth means I can probably go for BW, working lots of cottages to grow, once I finish BW I can easily 3 pop out anotehr settler for city 3 and then play conservatively, getting out scouts and focus on tech and diplomacy. And that gold tile is going to massively speed up my tech to the extent that pottery takes...[(8+1+1+2)+(7+1+1)]*1.2= 6 turns, working just the gold and sheep tiles, and a trade route between the cities (easy to do that). OK, I won't hav the gold tile hooked up immediately, but I'm look at at no more than 15 turns for BW and pottery, and I can get a second work out in that time to help lay down the cottages for the growth.

Other note: need to mine AMs' hills, to get the granary in a decent amount of time. I really need workers...where's sunrise when you need him?

[Krill]

I'm not sure if I've enounciated my point well enough, but I am going to be severely lacking in workers, partly down to the lack of chopping (slaving isn't that important without granaries). This is one of the benefits of going for an early BW, but something players always overlook: when you are chopping, you are artificially inflating the number of workers needed, because alot of them are not contributing to your empire except because they are chopping, and you need other workers (that are being chopped out) to improve the tiles that your cities are going to work.

When you decide not to chop, you don't need all of those chopping workers, so you can make do with less, so long as you keep all of the tiles improved and your cities large and productive. But you still need to build those workers, and in my case the only way to do it is by building them with food, as I don't want to research BW early because of the religious gambit. It's painfully slow...but it's a trade off, because of hte maintenence costs.

In a game with very low maintenence costs, such as RBPB1, you can expand massively without being crippled. In this game, if it is a toroidal map script I will be down to below 50% science by the time I settle my third city, so I don't want to be chopping out a load fo settlers, and I won't really need more than 4-5 workers, max, and I could probably get away with 3 if I thought about it a bit. That's only another 120 hammers/food, so I might be able to get awaywithout the chops. And once I get Maths, I can chop out more efficient, I'll have the cottages/shrine(s) to support the extra expansion, hopefully have the allies nearby that won't rush me so I can go slightly lower on military...it is risky, and is probably not the best way to powergame, but considering that powergamers tend to not do as well as they should do, I don;t see that as a gamebreaking negative.

[novice]

Wow, that's interesting. I've got nothing intelligent to add. Thanks a lot!

[novice]

Other note: need to mine AMs' hills, to get the granary in a decent amount of time. I really need workers...where's sunrise when you need him?

Haha.

So to clarify, your tech path is
(The Wheel & Agri)->Animal Husbandry->Mysticism->Polytheism->Mining
Then probably
Pottery->Bronze Working
And then possibly
Masonry->Monotheism->Priesthood->Writing->Code of Laws (Oracled)
Then hopefully pick up Mathematics & Alphabet through trade for CoL

Bulbing Theology with your first prophet (I guess the shrines can wait?) and Philosophy with your first Scientist.

EDIT: And picking up Meditation before Philosophy.

[Krill]

I don't have a clue on the tech path to be exact. Not sure if/when Hinduism falls. If I get Hinduism, there isn't so great a need to grab Judaism; it'd be great to grab 6/7 religions, but I'm not going to cripple myself long term to get them.

If, for instance, Hinduism and Buddhism fell by the time I finish AH, or shortly after, I'm going to have to drastically reconsider my teching path. I know whaty techs I want though, it's just prioritising them, and that depends on the other players actions.

I need meditation before I bulb Theo though, Meditation is #1 on the list of techs the GP bulbs.

I think the aim is to grab CoL via Oracle, and bulb Theo/Philo, no matter what happens, as either the early religions fall and I need to grab all of them to increase the scarcity value or they don't and I get them and see how much I can exploit religions. That means I only have to tech as far as Monotheism, so I can stick about in the ancient era techs. I am not looking at teching any large techs, so I shouldn't get sidetracked.

I'm also trying to dovetail this with a third city at a decent time to grab horses. I really want to get 2 WC out as scouts and a further 2 to act as defences, which is 120 hammers.

I kinda know what I want to do, but I can't make any decisions until t16-7 when anyone going for an early religion will found them, and then I won't know for sure until I plant my second city and hopefully get Hinduism. Which is one of the reasons I'm sitting here bored. Everything is worked out, so until I meet someone and can start diplomacy, there is nothing to do apart from scout. I just want everyone to try and play quickly, but unfortunately sunrise et al are holding up the game right now.

[Krill]

Ultimately, I have to hope that no one else got gold that they could easily hook up right next to their capital. Which I don't think a map maker would do...

But if it is true, then I may be able to rush through the techs not on any beeline and set up a stronger economy for the long run, and then focus on the real beelines. Only problem is, I am going to be risking it by going for both. Basically, researching Pottery and BW is equal to researching Masonry and Mono, so if I can do without the former I am playing safer, but I'm going to be weaker because of it. The question is balance, and how much I can eke out of the land and how close I can cut it...

[Krill]

Decisions, decisions...

[Krill]

Well, that was an interesting way to start a turn. I didn't think anyone would be quite that close to me...which is just me being stupid, I knew it would be a cramped map. Perhaps I just didn't want to realise how cramped it was? Whatever, what is done is done...

That looks like Korea, who is a possible worker first civ (EXP/PHI). And he is damned close.

To cut to the chase, he is a possible warrior rush target.

He is a total unknown, new to the community, so may not know about previous players getting killed by exploring warriors. If I move Gaskin N next turn, I don't think he'll be spotted by Korea, so I can then move NW on t10, right at the end of the turn when I'm the last player, and he won't be able to build a warrior in time unless he has already started, and if he went worker first he won't have started building a warrior yet.

Damnit, though, I don't want to kill a newcomer, that's not good for the community...and would that make me a target?

Looks like I need to think about this quite a bit...

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Damnit, though, I don't want to kill a newcomer, that's not good for the community...and would that make me a target?

Heh, and all of a sudden, this game becomes interesting real early.

Oh, and I don't think I will be able to add much to your post count...although I'm exclusively lurking your thread (to have a different lurker experience!), I guess I cannot make a rant in the RBPB2 forum about lurkers not officially belonging to a team contributing too much substantial input and then do exactly that here in RBPB3.

-Kylearan