Casual dueling/SG (FFH/EitB)

[Mardoc]

Also, you should probably wait for v12, as all of the main options look like they're run around changes about to be made.

Huh, really? I thought you mostly finished the Sheaim in v11.

I've lost track of what your v12 plans are, honestly. I don't want to read a 35-page thread to figure them out, either .

Still, part of the idea here is to not worry so much about balance - focus on theme. So I'm not sure we need the latest and greatest.

Running a little behind schedule due to personal tragedy and other commitments, but should be out in the next 2-3 days.

My sympathies

Mainly a concern because in SG you generally generate the saves a few days before starting, and the savefile format is changing so you won't be able to "upgrade". (I can generate and post pics, though, if you want?)

I'm ok with planning to start on Monday or Tuesday. It'll probably take that long for us to finalize our roster and ruleset and come up with some sort of a plan. Speaking of which:
DaveV, I like that ruleset. Nice and concise.

We'll have to decide on settings, too.
Opponents? How about all the Good civs? Bannor, Elohim, Kuriotates, Ljosalfar, Luchuirp, Malakim.
Difficulty? Something middling, maybe Monarch/Emperor?
Speed? I'd go with Normal or Epic, myself. Since each player only has 1/4 or 1/5 of the total turns, I think Quick would move too fast. Plus Gate units are spawned on a per turn basis, so slower is a bonus for us
Map? Something to make us consider a variety of different tactics and strategies. Which probably means not a MP-style lakes map - maybe continents, Erebus, something like that. I don't know the available scripts very well. I kinda want a Large map.

Settings? Wildlands, barbs on, lairs and events on, no tech trading, yes to Orthus and Acheron, other? I think Last Days off, no point making it too easy.

[DaveV]

5 is fine with me. Difficulty level is a tough question: I expect the game will be a long, slow buildup to Planar Gates followed by a roflstomp with the gate units. The AIs don't present much of a challenge below Emperor/Immortal, but higher difficulty will mean more boring turns of churning out settlers, workers, warriors, and buildings.

@jalepeno - I'm fine with 5 players, in my experience it's good to have extra people in case someone is busy and has to pass/delay their slot in the rotation. With respect to the AC: at AC=0, gate units have a 5% chance of spawning and you can have up to two units per building, so there's no need to pump it too hard at the beginning.

For reference:

AC	Spawn Chance (%)	Max units/gate
0-9	5	2
10-29	10	4
30-39	13	8
40-49	17	10
50-59	20	12
60-69	23	14
70-79	27	16
80-89	30	18
90-99	35	20
100	40	25

To clarify by an example:

City A has a gate and a carnival.
City B has a gate and a mage guild.
City C has a gate, a mage guild, and a carnival.

At AC=0:
City A has a 5% chance per turn of spawning a chaos marauder. Max number of chaos marauders is 6 (number of planar gates * 2).
City B has a 5% chance per turn of spawning a mobius witch. Max number of mobius witches is 6.
City C has a 5% chance per turn of spawning a unit. That unit has an equal chance of being a chaos marauder or mobius witch.

Once there are 6 chaos marauders on the board, city A will not spawn any units, and city C will always spawn a mobius witch. Once we have 6 of each, the tap is shut off until we build more gates or drive up the AC.

[DaveV]

Xpost with Mardoc while I spent forever building that stupid table.

I agree with Mardoc's proposed settings. If we're looking for good civs, Ljos are also good if led by Amelanchier. If we're looking for competition, Sheelba is the AI most likely to present an early to mid game threat, in my experience.

[Aurorarcher]

Proposed rules:

We are Averax of Sheaim. We may never have more than two warriors per city. No other military units may be built (unlimited workers and settlers). Goals:

1. Armageddon!
2. Conquest.
3. Spawn at least one of every planar gate unit.

I like these. Maybe add that you can only defend with warriors?

Also, you should probably wait for v12, as all of the main options look like they're run around changes about to be made.

Huh, really? I thought you mostly finished the Sheaim in v11.

I've lost track of what your v12 plans are, honestly. I don't want to read a 35-page thread to figure them out, either .

Still, part of the idea here is to not worry so much about balance - focus on theme. So I'm not sure we need the latest and greatest.

v12 cuts Planar Gates cost to half of what they are now. I don't think we need that though. I think we'll go with v11. What do you guys say? If we wanted a real AI challenge we should play with More Naval AI mod for FFH (on deity it's really difficult as far as I recall). But I think we're better off staying with EitB. Anyone disagree?

We'll have to decide on settings, too.
Opponents? How about all the Good civs? Bannor, Elohim, Kuriotates, Ljosalfar, Luchuirp, Malakim.
Difficulty? Something middling, maybe Monarch/Emperor?
Speed? I'd go with Normal or Epic, myself. Since each player only has 1/4 or 1/5 of the total turns, I think Quick would move too fast. Plus Gate units are spawned on a per turn basis, so slower is a bonus for us
Map? Something to make us consider a variety of different tactics and strategies. Which probably means not a MP-style lakes map - maybe continents, Erebus, something like that. I don't know the available scripts very well. I kinda want a Large map.

Settings? Wildlands, barbs on, lairs and events on, no tech trading, yes to Orthus and Acheron, other? I think Last Days off, no point making it too easy.

I vote for Normal speeed, I'm fine with Epic as well though. The game should become epic afterall, so it could be fitting . Also that means more units in the longrun. And I agree that our opponents should be all the Good civs, that's awesome. Fits our theme - maybe not the most competitive group though? Also agree on the other settings you mentioned. Monarch/Emperor sound good to me, in EitB AI is terrible almost at any level (especially when it comes to expanding).

I'd also add All Unique Features.

I want a large map too; I'll take a look later at some scripts that sound appealing to me.

I think 5 players is doable, but think we have 6 who have rised their interest though (unless Bob is fine lurking, afterall he signed up before Jalepeno). If Bob gives his spot to Jale we have our roster ready.

So our roster is then:
- Maroc, Dave, Aurorarcher, Brick and Bob or Jale.

[DaveV]

If we wanted a real AI challenge we should play with More Naval AI mod for FFH (on deity it's really difficult as far as I recall). But I think we're better off staying with EitB. Anyone disagree?

I vote for EitB. The More Naval AI game is difficult because the AIs will build a stack of 20 warriors and scouts by turn 50 and send them across the map to kill you. Under our rules, we couldn't do much of anything to stop that.

I think Bob's preference was to lurk, and he only offered to step forward if we needed him.

Warning about normal or especially epic speed: if we're going to try to fulfill my goal number 3 and spawn one of each gate unit, we need to pretty much finish out the tech tree, which would take a loooong time. It's probably better to discard that goal if we play at a slow speed.

[Mardoc]

Yeah, I'm happy with five, too. I think I want to close signups now, though...six or more is a bit much. Given that it hasn't even been 24 hours, I bet we're leaving someone out - but I also bet that a second SG could get off the ground .

Bob said he'd rather lurk if we got enough players without him, so I think the spot is Jalepeno's.

I think we'll go with v11. What do you guys say? If we wanted a real AI challenge we should play with More Naval AI mod for FFH (on deity it's really difficult as far as I recall).

I'm happy with either v11 or v12. v11 just means it's a tougher variant, really. Since we have excitement now, you're probably right not to delay.

I know a lot of MNAI is built into EitB - not the most latest stuff, but enough that I'd rather stick with what I know, EitB.

while I spent forever building that stupid table

Yes, but I'm sure I'll refer back to it as we play. Not wasted time .

Maybe add that you can only defend with warriors?

I'd rather not add that to the ruleset, there might be a reason for an exception. Just remember the spirit of the game is the Gate, and don't push for loopholes.

maybe not the most competitive group though?

Well, if we go with Large, we can add in a couple of the powerhouses as well. Say, Calabim, Lanun, Clan? I don't have a great feel for which civs the AI is good with, but those seem to be straightforward bonuses that are hard to mess up.

Edit:

Warning about normal or especially epic speed: if we're going to try to fulfill my goal number 3 and spawn one of each gate unit, we need to pretty much finish out the tech tree, which would take a loooong time. It's probably better to discard that goal if we play at a slow speed.

I was considering only the first sentence as hard and fast rules, the goals were about the spirit of the game rather than letter of the law. So it can be a worthy goal but not a requirement?

[Aurorarcher]

So we are probably ready to start rather soon then? Surprised how well we got things sorted out!

In couple of hours I'll go look for potential maps and then put my thoughts here. You guys can also suggest maps that you feel like would be a fun for us. After that I can write a summary of what we've agreed on regarding the settings etc. and... then we're ready to start I guess. Sounds good to everyone? Or is there anything else we need to discuss about?

Considering the 3rd goal of Dave: Yeah, might be hard with Normal/Epic but I'm assuming the game to take pretty long time to finish anyway. With Quick I'm afraid that the game will end too quickly (turnwise).

[BRickAstley]

Erebus Continents mapscript? Themey but everyone won't be locked behind peaks a-plenty.

I have no preference for the other preferences.

[jalepeno]

Normal speed, v11, allow "attacking defense" with warriors within our borders (i.e. we can gangpile orthus with warriors, rather than waiting for him to suicide) would be my preferences.

Also, what about upgrades, events, and capture units? I think upgrading warriors should be out (can upgrade witches to eater of dreams), but what about the hill giant or hunter event/capturing animals (or other units with crown of command)/etc?

[Mardoc]

I'd be inclined to allow captures, but we can't fight with the captured units. Also to allow religious units as missionaries (this will be a lot harder if we can't spread Ashen Veil). And we can choose a side in dwarves v lizards, but not take the survivors to go harass other civs.

Basically, remember the idea is to use the gates as much as possible, and everything else as little as possible.

Although...can we allow ourselves to build Abashi if we haven't already won by that point? Just because he's a dragon, and cool?