[Spoilers] CH tries to be more than a warm body

[Cheater Hater]

In response to the tech thread accusations of cheating (no they don't involve me; I just want to get something off my chest and almost put this basic message in the tech thread before I thought better of it), you know the active action thing you use to see what all users are doing is sometimes glitched, right xenu? I know it's caught me before, and presumably the people who were "caught" by it aren't happy either (even if they're not going to make it public like I did).

This discussion goes along with the lurker behavior in the lurker thread of another game, and how the reporting quality/quantity has gone down since then. RB culture feels to me about the learning aspects, more than the competition--has that changed that much since the heyday? If people care so much about winning to sacrifice the learning aspects, maybe this isn't the place for them? (though is there a alternative?)

Speaking of reports, I know I haven't done one in a bit, but this upcoming turn I'll settle both C4 and C5, and that feels like a good point for the new report.

And if someone really wanted to win this stake-less video game, why would they be stupid enough to use their own username to browse the other threads, or even their IP?

[spacetyrantxenu]

Yes, we've apparently had times before where the user's forum location isn't accurately reported for whatever reason. No idea why but it is what it is. Nonetheless it is information that deserves following up on when it's seen, which is what I did. Being apparently in the wrong thread is one thing, but if you have more circumstances (like curious timing or multiple incidents) to combine it can look like a pattern that no one wants to see here.

As for the spoilered bit, not everyone knows the details of how the sausage gets made, but I see no reason to help by explaining it. :P Trust is absolutely required in our games here because if everyone is determined to read everyone else's threads there isn't a way to stop all of it without requiring all users to browse logged in. Removing guest access would effectively stop new people from wandering in, though, and then there goes the neighborhood. Obviously that's not something we'd ever want to do with our system of open reporting.

[Cheater Hater]

Yes, we've apparently had times before where the user's forum location isn't accurately reported for whatever reason. No idea why but it is what it is. Nonetheless it is information that deserves following up on when it's seen, which is what I did. Being apparently in the wrong thread is one thing, but if you have more circumstances (like curious timing or multiple incidents) to combine it can look like a pattern that no one wants to see here.

As for the spoilered bit, not everyone knows the details of how the sausage gets made, but I see no reason to help by explaining it. :P Trust is absolutely required in our games here because if everyone is determined to read everyone else's threads there isn't a way to stop all of it without requiring all users to browse logged in. Removing guest access would effectively stop new people from wandering in, though, and then there goes the neighborhood. Obviously that's not something we'd ever want to do with our system of open reporting.

Yeah, maybe we just have to start enforcing at least semi-regular reporting, so that everyone's on the same playing field and there's no advantage to information hiding. This also makes me curious on what an open-information game (minimum standard of reporting, all threads are open) would look like--presumably there's some sort of pure skill (say, city micro or combat minutiae) that still would separate players.

On a related note, how many civs ended up responding to TBS's call for overview posts a couple turns back?

And yes, I still need to play my turn, since I never got back before the turn rolled

[spacetyrantxenu]

I wouldn't suggest that. People will report if they want to, it isn't really something you can require.

[The Black Sword]

I have pop counts for all but 3 civs I think. About half of the players put together a more detailed report like yours. Now I just have to put the thing together.

[Cheater Hater]

Anyway, enough meta-stuff, back to the game. T71 is a big turn, and to show everything I even need to split the overview into two sections:


First of all, you may notice Elkad's Work Boat in my territory and/or the big red letters next to his name in the score listings--this is just a scouting war, and I've even offered a ceasefire to end it this turn. It hasn't been a big deal at all

Other than that, the big things are that I whipped the C6 Settler in Cuzco, and I have a bunch of military coming soon. However, one problem is that once this round of military completes (and the Chariot won't even complete), I need another round of Workers to help improve my outer cities. Obviously C6 needs a decent number of worker turns (even if two Work Boats will provide the main tiles, the Terrace needs to be chopped out quickly I think), but even cities like MP and Olly are running out of viable tiles. At what point do I start trying to get some infrastructure into these cities? Presumably I'll have a lot of free pop to whip once HG comes in, but I need to start to specialize my cities. I've overbuilt Libraries in the past, and I also need some Barracks in production cities before I start a major military buildup (and live up to my password). Lighthouses are also coming soon for most cities, but all of that might wait until MC and Forges for maximum efficiency.

The one major change is that I'm slowing down my rate of chops at Cuzco into HG--I only have one going into it on T74 now (the one 1W of the ivory), since I need to make sure I don't complete it before I settle C6. In fact, might it be worth it to build a Worker in Cuzco after it grows to size 6, only switching back once the chop completes? Actually, the right move is probably to give some mines back to TW and work the cottage instead.

One other thing I'm not sure about: My Work Boat headed for the C6 site scouted a bit of territory, and even found a fish. However, can I actually settle the F? by the fish if I settle C6? I know it's within two tiles, and that this would work if they were both on islands, but I'm not sure what happens if they're separated by water on the same landmass.

Next, let's look at my new cities:


Say hello to Corihuayrachina (Cori) and Huamanga (Hua)--seriously, there weren't any other Incan cities that were reasonable to spell? Nothing else spectacular there--they're both building Terraces as the default, and both will probably get a chop soon. I'm also wondering if I'll actually be able to get the C north of Hua--I know we both discounted that site back when I was debating C4, but DZ really has not been expanding. Obviously that isn't coming out for a while (certainly not before HG), and I need a decent military to defend it first, but DZ probably should have settled it by now.

The best news is that Currency is still coming in 3 turns, even bumping the slider down to 80%! That means I certainly won't crash imminently, but it also means I need to figure out where I'm going next. Right now the options I'm thinking of are Sailing, MC, IW, and CoL. Sailing gets me Lighthouses, the Whales at C6, and the cheap Moai; MC is for Forges, IW gets me iron and both jungled gems, CoL gets me Courthouses and paves the path to Civil Service (though I don't know how much to prioritize Bureaucracy with the civic revamp--I need to check those one of these days and evaluate them). Sailing is the obvious filler, then I can save gold for a while (and maybe backfill some of the religious techs, to improve my score if nothing else ) and figure out where I'm going next.

Now it's time for a demo dump:








(BTW, is there a way to make the graphs bigger now that I'm at 1080p?)

[GermanJoey]

I have pop counts for all but 3 civs I think. About half of the players put together a more detailed report like yours. Now I just have to put the thing together.

Chop chop!

[GermanJoey]

Nice update, CH. So C6 is actually your 7th city? and T75 timing for the HG?

About graphs: no, I don't think you can make them bigger. I've also always wished you could zoom in or have axes shown, but alas.

[Cheater Hater]

Nice update, CH. So C6 is actually your 7th city? and T75 timing for the HG?

About graphs: no, I don't think you can make them bigger. I've also always wished you could zoom in or have axes shown, but alas.

Thanks for the praise GJ. Yes, C6 would be my 7th city--I know it's confusing, but I've been going too long to change it at this point (though maybe I'll change C7 to a different name, since that city probably isn't being founded for a while).

As for your other question, bad lurker! Everyone knows you aren't supposed to ask about wonder timings...but since I'm nice (and have been open about it through the process) I'll tell you anyway


Here's what Cuzco looks like right now--I'm obviously not trying to max out my hammer production, mainly because C6 won't be founded until T76, meaning HG shouldn't come in until T77 at the earliest. My hope is that I'll be able to hit that number--I have one chop coming in for certain, and can add another if necessary (probably the silk). I also can take back mines if necessary, and I'll be gaining at least a couple hammers when I grow in 3 turns.

One annoying thing that happened this turn is that I realized I forgot that farms are 5 turns instead of 4--seriously, why is that? Every other basic improvement is 4 turns (except quarries I think), why wasn't this swapped around as well? It's only really annoying at Hua, since if I would have realized that I would have improved the Pasture first and not had to work an unimproved tile for an extra turn. At least I've been able to update my worker micro sheet now that I realized it, and it isn't that bad. Of course, the fact that the Workers around Cuzco don't have plans post-T74 is ugly still, but that's due to the uncertainty around HG.

Other than that, Pyramids fell to Commodore--that's fine, I guess?

That sucks about the graphs--would it be a good idea to add that to RtR in some capacity? I don't know if another mod has done so (maybe BUG?) or if we could borrow it, but that would remove another source of fiddly C&D work that you "have" to do to play optimally, like when Sabotage Production was removed for similar reasons.

[Fenn]

You can still settle F if you found C6 - they'd be on the same landmass but F is three tiles away and that's enough.

If DZ keeps on sitting on his heels, then by all means go for the spot north of Hua. Impis won't be a big threat for very long, if they haven't lost that status already.

Between being coastal and only having one cottage (well, hamlet), Cuzco doesn't look like a strong Bureau capital; I don't think pursuing Civil Service soon is necessary. Sailing->Metal Casting would be how I'd tech for now.

After your next round of military finishes, some more Workers to lay down cottages and such might be good. You only need to be strong enough to not be a total doormat because of how far you are from your neighbours, and your only potential enemy for the moment can only attack from the north. TW, Cuzco and maybe Macchu would benefit from Libraries but the rest of your cities can wait a while. Barracks I'd only build in one or two cities, max.