[Spoilers] CH tries to be more than a warm body

[Cheater Hater]

You can still settle F if you found C6 - they'd be on the same landmass but F is three tiles away and that's enough.

If DZ keeps on sitting on his heels, then by all means go for the spot north of Hua. Impis won't be a big threat for very long, if they haven't lost that status already.

Between being coastal and only having one cottage (well, hamlet), Cuzco doesn't look like a strong Bureau capital; I don't think pursuing Civil Service soon is necessary. Sailing->Metal Casting would be how I'd tech for now.

After your next round of military finishes, some more Workers to lay down cottages and such might be good. You only need to be strong enough to not be a total doormat because of how far you are from your neighbours, and your only potential enemy for the moment can only attack from the north. TW, Cuzco and maybe Macchu would benefit from Libraries but the rest of your cities can wait a while. Barracks I'd only build in one or two cities, max.

No, not that F--there's one right on the border of the peninsula, 1E of the deer--that's the one I'm not sure of.

Impis are still a threat until I get Axes in my border cities--thankfully the first two finish next turn, but that still won't be enough to even match the average power.

Sailing feels good, then the choice between IW and MC is interesting. IW needs worker turns to take advantage of (both for the jungled resources and possibly connecting iron, while MC wants hammers. Neither is in abundant supply, but my worker turns are much more valuable, even if IW would return a more-immediate return on the investment.

[Cheater Hater]

Hooray, Molach is probably finishing HG next turn, based on many contextual clues. Of course, if he's going for GL instead that's great for me; similarly if he just needs a bunch of careful turns to hit his wonder that's okay too. It still looks like I need to finish the second chop into HG on T76 to complete it right away, so hopefully it's not a coin flip.
Edit: Or I could be misreading Molach's post really badly--I haven't logged in to check, but Molach has taken a city from AT instead! Hopefully this means I'm home-free for at least a coin flip on HG
Edit2: My suspicions are correct--no one has HG yet, and with the chop coming in I have at least a coin flip at the wonder. Hopefully I get it--I'll do a report that turn then.

[Cheater Hater]

New turn, and in case you didn't catch CivStats, I have good news!


Yes, we got Hanging Gardens!
I don't know if I could have pushed it off longer, but I don't think I was founding my 8th city anytime soon regardless, and getting the growth earlier means I can use it earlier (notably at TW, where I 3-pop whipped the Library, in an effort to not work nearly as many unimproved tiles--though obviously I'm still working a ton of forests at my newer cities). However, that wasn't the only good news this turn--if you didn't catch it in the screenshot, I'll let the event log spell it out:


Yes--after all the commotion surrounding Ichabod's rogue barb, when the dust settled we ended up with some free silver, and at TW no less! Ah, the wonders of being near the top of the score chart (2nd, until I did that 3-pop whip).

Of course, there's no time to rest on my laurels--now we need to figure out what's going on next. First we have the tech plan. Right now I'm saving gold on MC, and my very tentative plan is something like MC->IW->Polytheism->Meditation->Priesthood->CoL->Calendar. That's only the economic techs though; I probably need Construction somewhere in there to survive until Maces for instance. I also don't know how to value Compass and Quays--don't forget we do get it (and Harbors) cheap thanks to our traits. I mean, do I want a 40H Quay in every coastal city? I think so, but that also means I need to invest in Lighthouses everywhere.

The next thing I need to figure out is my city plan. As you can see, DZ eventually got to the NW spot (the turn after I mentioned possibly wanting it, in fact), so now I feel I have 5 reasonable options. I'll go through all of them, though since they're mostly still labels with the generic C and/or F labels, it might get a little confusing:
1. C7/C7-B, the city in the NE tundra. This is one of the cities that's farthest away from my core, but it's probably the best city in terms of territory and resources. If I can support it, it's probably the best city to found (as noted by my original dotmap). There's also the question of which city to found; C7-B also has the copper, but it's horrible until the borders pop (it has no food in the center tiles). Maybe that means I should wait until I can pop the borders right away?
2. C/F?, the city in the SE tundra. This is still a decent city, but it doesn't really get me anything right now--the only reason I'd settle it soon is because I needed the support to get to the C7 site.
3. C, the city north of Cori. This is actually a pretty good site, and it's next to my borders--however, it's also next to the borders of both DZ and Serdoa/NH. I have a feeling the best case for this city might be to take it after someone else settles it, but if I can hold the city it's obviously a good site.
4. F, the city west of Cori. This city is more of a defensive measure (though it does claim the sheep, but again it's near DZ's borders. At some point I'm going to have to settle up against DZ though.
5. C, the city east of Cori. This is an awful city (mostly since it doesn't claim any new resources), but it does a good job of blocking off my eastern side.

Any thoughts Fenn? I have more I want to say (notably I want to go through all the cities), but I want to make sure this post gets posted at least.

[Fenn]

Congrats on landing the HG, first of all! That free Silver is a nice bonus too, you ought to be set on happiness for a long time.

MC->IW next sounds good, it's probably about time to access those Gems; are you clearing out Poly/Med/Priesthood to get the discount on Code of Laws? As for Compass, Vilcas and any other cities in the tundra would definitely want Lighthouses/Quays in them. Would also be good for Cuzco, Tiwanaku and the city north of Cori if you found there. Teching Compass after Iron Working could be worth it unless you really want CoL soon. Harbors, though, I'd put off even with the EXP discount; all they're good for for you is the extra trade route yield which can't amount to more than 1gpt extra at this point in the game, especially without foreign trade routes.

I'd suggest you found your next city in the spot N of Cori, but what does your military situation look like and do you have graphs on NH/Serdoa? If you're not confident about your strength relative to theirs I'd agree with looking elsewhere for your next cities. You can probably put off the filler W of Cori, though there is the danger of DZ settling 2N of the Sheep.

I'd look towards the tundra for future settling. Here's an idea: why not settle the C/F city 1N of the Fish? It'll have first ring food (and can have a prebuilt Workboat to to net the Fish right away), and when its borders pop, the northern floodplains will be in your borders such that C7-B could work floodplain farms from the start while still being in a better longterm position.

[GermanJoey]

Congrats!!

[Cheater Hater]

Thanks for the congrats everyone. And as for Fenn, I'll try to answer your questions in the rest of my report. But first, let's start where I left off, with my domestic plans:


(Seriously, why is this screen stretched beyond belief, while the graphs are still tiny?)
Cuzco: I'm building the Library here, then I'm thinking my next Settler might come from here. However, this is one of the few cities with tiles to grow onto, so maybe I should build a Lighthouse here, wait until size 9, then build the first tundra Settler here?
TW: After the Library whip, should I move straight to a Market or fit a Lighthouse in first?
MP: Right after the Worker completes I have a chop completing on that plains hill, but I'm not sure if it should go here (into a Library probably) or the infrastructure in TW--any thoughts Fenn? The default is MP, and that city needs more infrastructure, but MP could use it better. Of course, with my absent-mindedness (more on that later) it'll go to whichever city's working the tile when I finish the chop
Actually, I could put two chops into this city and build the northern Settler here, following up with a whip (probably 2-pop--it might not even need the second chop) and getting to the northern site quickly if I think it'll work.
Olly: After this Axe finishes, it's making a pit stop for a Barrack (which will be helped by a chop), then it's full military from here. How much do I want to whip my military pumping city?
Cori: The Terrace just got a chop, and it's getting another shortly--after that I just build some military while I specialize the city--but to what? Production? Or do I just farm everything and try to make a GP farm without dedicated food resources? The terrain isn't that specialized with rivers or hills
Hua: In contrast, this city has a lot of resources but not much other usable land--obviously I go Lighthouse next (since I don't need the Library that urgently with just one cottage and without hooked-up gems), but do I want Moai in here? I think I'm supposed to save it for one of those tundra cities.
Vilcas (C6): Another coastal city with a bunch of resources; another place with Moai potential. Between the four cities (Hua and the three planned tundra sites) I need to figure out where Moai is going sooner rather than later. As for right now, Terrace->Lighthouse is obvious, then I might have Compass by that point
While I'm in the area, I'm asking again if the southern F (the one I ping-highlighted in the overview) can be settled along with Vilcas--it's on the same landmass, two tiles away, but across the water, so I'm not sure. I'm not settling it for a while obviously, but it's still worth knowing about for future plans.

Next, a scouting update with some bad news:


Yeah, my scout has finally been trapped (at least for all practical purposes; there might be an escape route south though). The solution to this should be simple (declare on Serdoa/NH, cross that one corner, and not even end turn in their territory), but since I haven't been paying complete attention to my scouting (and declaring to scout isn't something I'm normally doing), I wavered back and forth a couple times, and by the time I actually thought to put up a sign, Serdoa/NH have a spear in the way
I could just declare on taotao instead, but that would leave me in enemy territory for a turn--any thoughts on what to do here Fenn?

Now some graphs, and I'll actually do some commentary this time!


Lots of random spiking in the GNP graph, though that doesn't say much until things settle down and KTB/prereqs become less of the total.


Production has always been my strong point in this game, and not just because Expansive Workers inflate the total


The all important Power, and I'm not dead last in my area anymore! Of course, Commodore also spent a ton of hammers on a wonder, so that isn't saying much. Serdoa/NH and DZ are both ahead, but not by that much.


Nothing much unexpected here--I was first in pop before the whip though

Now to some of the other stuff I haven't covered yet:
Tech Path: MC->IW->Compass feels like the basic path, but now I'm wondering if Archery shouldn't show up soon--how much should I be prioritizing that? Yeah, all the religious techs were for CoL discounts (since I'll need them anyway for Philosophy/Literature, and Priesthood pays for itself even before the scaling in this version of the mod), and I don't know how badly I need CoL. I need to decide the direction I'm taking with my neighbors as well--the mutual farmer's gambit is obviously the best case (especially since wars are already starting elsewhere), but the key is mutual.
City Planning: Assuming I can get the northern spot, that spot->C/F->C7-B feels like the best plan. As for the C/F spot, I have it where it is so I could share Vilcas's Whale and Deer with it, but since it starts with the fish anyway (and Vilcas needs all the tiles it can get) moving it makes sense.
Worker Stuff; Not much here, I just like to keep linking the worker micro sheet so I don't have to scroll up to find it

[Fenn]

Nope, you can't settle the southern F by Vilcas - it would have to be on a completely different landmass for that to work.

Your Scout should move through taotao's hill right away to escape. Noble Helium's Spear is probably just there to cover his Workers, but that means it's going to stay where it is, and there's no point in waiting. Long-terms survival is probably not going to happen either way, but this way he might survive a little while longer...

Olly: Whipping here is probably fine as long as you don't go below Size 2, but how quickly can it produce Axes with its natural hammers?

I'd still lean towards putting Moai in Vilcas - it's fast to build there and you'll have 8 coastal tiles to work, 3 of them with extra yields (fish/whale/lake), plus two ocean tiles. A good Moai spot now is worth more than a great one thirty turns later.

If you're planning on settling the northern city by NH/DZ, definitely slot in Archery; both your neighbours have higher Power than you so planting close to them without good deterrent is, while not provocative, still risky imo. Otherwise I think you could delay Archery until after Compass.

[Cheater Hater]

That sucks--which is better then, the other F in the area, or possibly settling on the deer?

I still don't want to declare on taotao, since I'm guessing the hill is right next to a city--maybe it's just worth waiting until either Serdoa/NH move the spear (the Workers have finished both the pasture and the road this turn) or it gets squeezed out.

I put 100% on Archery to finish it in one turn; that's a good safety net

Not much to report on from T78, but there is one thing...



That actually delayed the Library in Cuzco by a turn (since the gems mine is -1H compared to the normal mine), though it doesn't matter since it's getting a chop regardless, as well as swapping to a cottage next turn. Fun fact, when I logged in I saw a trade offer from Serdoa/NH of gems for gold (which I accepted for now; probably isn't worth it, but I might declare soon to free my scout which breaks the deal, and then we can figure out if it's worth it long-term) for a split-second, then crashed out--I came back and started thinking about it while logging in, then...wait a minute...

[spacetyrantxenu]

In successive turns you popped silver, then gems at your capital? I hope you don't ever need any RNG luck in this game because your luck meter is on empty by now.

[Fenn]

Lmao at the mine pops. That's just nuts...

That sucks--which is better then, the other F in the area, or possibly settling on the deer?

Honestly, the land there is so sucky that I question whether it's worth settling in the next, like, fifty turns. Academically settling on the Deer probably isn't worth it; even if it's only 3/1/0 after a Cmap, it's still the only 3f+ tile that city will have to itself. Settling on it, or 1N of it, would bring in more coastal tiles which would be decent 2/0/3 yield after a Lighthouse+Quay.

If you don't want to declare war on taotao and wait for the border teleport, that's fine. The life of one Scout isn't worth much anymore.

What's your happiness situation like? Would the extra happy face (well, 2 with a Forge) from gold let you grow more or do whips that you wouldn't otherwise do? Canceling and re-offering, say Gems for Gold+3gpt might be more inline with what another happy resource is worth to you. That said, even in a no-diplo game having productive trade relationships without haggling can be helpful diplomatically...assuming team Noble/Serdoa isn't the type to backstab you the moment you show weakness.