EitB v12 Mastery PBEM?

[Qgqqqqq]

All of that sounds good, apart from the prefounded city - I thought we were going with a disciple?

Other settings:
Difficulty: Emp/Imm
Wrap: Up to you, but strongly suggest Toroidial
Barbs: Raging
No Lairs
No Tribal Villages
No Unique features
Map guidance:
- Don't bend over backwards on balancing the map, it's just a rough guide, but all strats should be available to each, and mana carefully portioned out
- 'natural, some balancing but don't go overboard, BIG 4-player map with enough water than navies can be useful'
Normal Mastery units /techs, plus starting disciple
- (if chosen, Hyborem/Basium get normal starting units they would receive on summoning. Hyborem's second settler should be gifted the Starting Settler promo.)
Anything else?

I would vote that we see starts before picking.

Thanks Mardoc!

[Mardoc]

All of that sounds good, apart from the prefounded city - I thought we were going with a disciple?

Do bear in mind that the more flexibility you want, the less balanced it's likely to be in practice . Also perhaps more relevantly, if you haven't founded your religion by the time the auto-assign happens ~T3, or T5, or whatever it is, then someone else gets the holy city randomly.

Wrap: Up to you, but strongly suggest Toroidial

Doesn't matter much on a four-player map, you'll all have access to each other either cylindrical or toroidal. But I can do toroid if you prefer.

Barbs: Raging

Ok...hope you know what you're in for here.

- Don't bend over backwards on balancing the map, it's just a rough guide, but all strats should be available to each, and mana carefully portioned out

Will try. Mana careful - any preference on abundance? Same number as rolled, just moved around for balance? At least four/person to enable Towers? Other?

- if chosen, Hyborem/Basium get normal starting units they would receive on summoning] Hyborem's second settler should be gifted the Starting Settler promo##
Anything else?

Can someone tell me exactly what these are?

I would vote that we see starts before picking.

Ok, I'm going to need some time yet. Maybe by Monday I can have this for you.

Thanks Mardoc!

hope you still feel this way in three months when you can see the whole map

[Dreylin]

You could always give us a square and start us in the corners

I think that bar the Avatar unit, H&B should start with the same as everyone else in terms of Settlers/Workers/etc. If either are selected, we might also want to offer non H&B civs an extra high-tier unit to offset the Avatar advantage. I for one don't want to be roflstomped on t10 by Basium and a crowd of Angels....

[Bobchillingworth]

I think that bar the Avatar unit, H&B should start with the same as everyone else in terms of Settlers/Workers/etc.

I agree. Plus I'm not sure there even *are* normal Mastery units, at least for Hyborem- it seems that in Eitb, the latter you spawn him, the weirder his starting stuff gets.

Although I would be okay with giving Hyborem at least one Mane, otherwise he won't be able to build Beasts of Agares until evil units start popping.

[Qgqqqqq]

Hyborem has standard starting units, which the late start wouldn't affect. I believe they are 2 longbows/champs with mobility/IW, one axe with IW, Hyborem, 2 workers, 1 imp and 2 manes - but definitely check.

I don't see why he/Basium wouldn't get them? They correspond pretty closely with other civs starting units as well. And I think the size of the map ought to allay any fears about a t10 roflstomp - I would expect it to take minimum25-30t to reach anyone, presuming a beeline and some difficult terrain.

I would say roughly the mana it normally gives, distributed evenly, but not at all sold on that, if someone else thinks another arrangement is preferable.

If anyone has a problem with raging barbs, I don't care much - just throwing out settings.

And like I said Mardoc, I'm not too fussed on balance. If prefounded, I presume we get a look at the start first?

[Dreylin]

And I think the size of the map ought to allay any fears about a t10 roflstomp - I would expect it to take minimum25-30t to reach anyone, presuming a beeline and some difficult terrain.

a) I don't think it had quite registered until now how big this map is going to be.

b) I still have concerns about the distorting effect that the additional, high-tier, Hero unit has for those two civs. Maybe we should start everyone with their own civ's Hero - although I know you want to avoid diverting too much from "standard" Mastery.

[Bobchillingworth]

I prefer that B&H start with the same units as everyone else, save a few Manes for Hyborem and both having their hero units (which they need to have leader traits). They normally get bonus units to make up for their late starts, which obv. aren't a factor here.


Also opposed to having anyone else start with heroes they wouldn't normally spawn with. I think countering a player attacking with just Hyborem or Basium should be fairly straightforward, and anyone who tries to go aggressive early with those units puts their traits at risk anyway.

[Dreylin]

I think countering a player attacking with just Hyborem or Basium should be fairly straightforward, and anyone who tries to go aggressive early with those units puts their traits at risk anyway.

To an extent, although since Hyborem is Immortal, it's a pretty low risk...

I'll go with what's decided, of course, but I did want to raise the concern so that I can wag my finger later and say I told you so....

On another note, Always War? Or do we pretend to be nice to each other first...

[Bobchillingworth]

Let's just go with Always War.

[plako]

I should probably try it out, but having a unit like Hyborem or Basium T0 seems pretty powerful to me. It takes quite a while before other civs can land units in big enough numbers to handle them and they also start to accumulate experience right from the beginning. I'm not big fan of having Infernals or Angels in the game. If they're really needed, their Heroes should never leave their capitals or something similar.