RBP3 [SPOILERS] Hannibal of Byzantium (Bobchillingworth, ManiaMuse & SleepingMoogle)

[SleepingMoogle]

Here's an updated turn list which includes Warrior movements. I made a few assumptions on what we'll be doing with tech, builds and workers, so please let me know if you agree with this:

*Given that we have horses, Archery becomes less necessary. I put up Pottery as our tech after Bronze Working.
*We revolt into slavery the same turn we finish BW research (T45)
*After linking the two cities by road, Anoleis will pasture and hook up the horses, and then start chopping the forest NW of the city. After that he'll farm the tile.
*Feros will start working the Horses when they're pastured. It's a slight food hit, but helps production and commerce.
*Worker B will start by chopping the Forest NW of the citadel, then move onto the forested hill SW of the Citadel and chop that as well before mining it.
*We will build a 4th Warrior for zone defense and worker covering before starting on a Chariot.
*Jenkins will move to scout the NW tiles after Feros is founded.

Turn 27: Anoleis pastures sheep
Turn 28: Citadel reaches size 3
Turn 31: Mining research finishes
Turn 34: Anoleis mines hill
Turn 38: Citadel finishes Settler
Turn 39: Citadel finishes Warrior 3
Turn 40: Feros founded, linked with the Citadel
Turn 44: Anoleis pastures horses
Turn 45: Citadel finishes Worker, Bronze Working research finishes, Revolt into Slavery
Turn 46: Horses hooked up
Turn 48: Citadel finishes Warrior 4, Worker B chops a forest for the Citadel
Turn 50: Citadel size 4, Anoleis chops a forest for Feros
Turn 51: Citadel finishes Chariot, Feros finishes Monument


Turn 27
Mining in 4 turns (added commerce from sheep tile)
Jenkins: Moves SE onto floodplain
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Anoleis: Pastures sheep (done)
Citadel: 23/24 food, 6/15 production (Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1] and Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3]

Turn 28
Mining in 3 turns
Jenkins: Moves SE onto plains river forest
Fredriks: Moves SW and covers Anoleis
Anoleis: Moves SW and roads plains tile (1T)
Citadel: (Size 3) 6/26 food, 0/100 production (Settler) (8/15 Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and grassland forest [2/1/0]

Turn 29
Mining in 2 turns
Jenkins: Moves NE onto floodplain
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Anoleis: Roads plains tile (done)
Citadel: 6/26 food, 10/100 production (Settler) (8/15 Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and grassland forest [2/1/0]

Turn 30
Mining in 1 turn
Jenkins: Moves NE onto grassland jungle
Fredriks: Moves E-NE and covers Anoleis
Anoleis: Moves E-NE onto grassland river hill
Citadel: 6/26 food, 20/100 production (Settler) (8/15 Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and grassland forest [2/1/0]

Turn 31
Mining done, starting Bronze Working (14T)
Jenkins: Moves NW onto grassland forest
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Anoleis: Mines grassland river hill (3T)
Citadel: 6/26 food, 30/100 production (Settler) (8/15 Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and grassland forest [2/1/0]

Turn 32
Bronze Working in 13 turns
Jenkins: Moves NW onto plains river tile
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Anoleis: Mines grassland river hill (2T)
Citadel: 6/26 food, 40/100 production (Settler) (8/15 Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and grassland forest [2/1/0]

Turn 33
Bronze Working in 12 turns
Jenkins: Moves W onto grassland river hill
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Anoleis: Mines grassland river hill (1T)
Citadel: 6/26 food, 50/100 production (Settler) (8/15 Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and grassland forest [2/1/0]

Turn 34
Bronze Working in 10 turns (added commerce from grassland river hill tile)
Jenkins: Moves W onto grassland river hill
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Anoleis: Mines grassland river hill (done)
Citadel: 6/26 food, 60/100 production (Settler) (8/15 Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined Grassland river hill [1/3/1]

Turn 35
Bronze Working in 9 turns
Jenkins: Moves NW and covers Anoleis
Fredriks: Moves NW and guards Citadel
Anoleis: Moves W-SW-W onto plains tile outside of border
Citadel: 6/26 food, 71/100 production (Settler) (8/15 Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined Grassland river hill [1/3/1]

Turn 36
Bronze Working in 8 turns
Jenkins: Heals while covering Anoleis
Fredriks: Guards citadel
Anoleis: Roads plains tile (1T)
Citadel: 6/26 food, 82/100 production (Settler) (8/15 Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined Grassland river hill [1/3/1]

Turn 37
Bronze Working in 7 turns
Jenkins: Heals while covering Anoleis (full health)
Fredriks: Moves S-SW
Anoleis: Roads plains tile (done)
Citadel: 6/26 food, 93/100 production (Settler) (8/15 Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined Grassland river hill [1/3/1]

Turn 38
Bronze Working in 6 turns
Jenkins: Moves SW and covers Anoleis
Fredriks: Moves W and covers Settler
Anoleis: Moves SW and roads grassland tile (1T)
Settler moves S-SW-W
Citadel: 6/26 food, Settler done, 15/15 production (Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]

Turn 39
Bronze Working in 5 turns
Jenkins: Moves SW and covers Settler
Fredriks: Moves SW and covers Anoleis
Warrior 3: Guards Citadel
Anoleis: Roads grassland tile (done)
Settler Moves SW-SW onto jungle grassland hill
Citadel: 12/26 food, Warrior done, 2/60 production (Worker), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]

Turn 40
Bronze Working in 4 turns, (1 turn of 0% science due to maintenance costs)
Jenkins: Moves NW onto grassland forest
Fredriks: Moves SW into Feros
Warrior 3: Guards Citadel
Anoleis: Founds Feros
Worker: Moves SE-SW onto plains horses
Citadel: 12/26 food, 13/60 production (Worker), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]
Feros: 0/22 food, 0/30 production (Monument), working grassland forest [2/1/0]

Turn 41
Bronze Working in 4 turns, 16 gold
Jenkins: Moves N onto grassland forest hill
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Warrior 3: Guards Citadel
Anoleis: Pastures plains horses (3T)
Citadel: 12/26 food, 24/60 production (Worker), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]
Feros: 2/22 food, 1/30 production (Monument), working grassland forest [2/1/0]

Turn 42
Bronze Working in 3 turns, 14 gold
Jenkins: Moves N onto grassland hill
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Warrior 3: Guards Citadel
Anoleis: Pastures plains horses (2T)
Citadel: 12/26 food, 35/60 production (Worker), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]
Feros: 4/22 food, 2/30 production (Monument), working grassland forest [2/1/0]


Turn 43
Bronze Working in 2 turns, 12 gold
Jenkins: Moves NW onto grassland hill
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Warrior 3: Guards Citadel
Anoleis: Pastures plains horses (1T)
Citadel: 12/26 food, 46/60 production (Worker), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]
Feros: 6/22 food, 3/30 production (Monument), working grassland forest [2/1/0]

Turn 44
Bronze Working in 1 turn, 10 gold
Jenkins: Moves N onto grassland hill
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Warrior 3: Guards Citadel
Anoleis: Pastures plains horses (done)
Citadel: 12/26 food, 57/60 production (Worker), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]
Feros: 8/22 food, 4/30 production (Monument), working Pastured plains horses [1/4/1]

Turn 45
Bronze Working done, Starting Pottery (?), 9 gold
Jenkins: Moves NE onto plains hill
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis
Warrior 3: Moves NW and covers Worker B
Anoleis: Roads plains horses (1T)
Worker B: Moves NW onto grassland river forest
Revolt into Slavery, Anarchy for 1 turn.
Citadel: 12/26 food, Worker done (8 overflow), 8/15 production (Warrior), no gains this turn due to Anarchy.
Feros: 9/22 food, 8/30 production (Monument), no gains this turn due to Anarchy

Turn 46
Pottery in ? turns, 8 gold
Jenkins: Moves N onto desert hill
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis, will move NW into Feros if Anoleis is not in danger
Warrior 3: Fortifies and covers Worker B
Anoleis: Roads plains horses (done)
Worker B: Chops grassland river forest (2T)
Citadel: 12/26 food, 8/15 production (Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]
Feros: 9/22 food, 8/30 production (Monument), working Pastured plains horses [1/4/1]

Turn 47
Pottery in ? turns, 7 gold
Jenkins: ?
Fredriks: Moves NW into Feros, or onto Grassland forest and covers Anoleis
Warrior 3: Fortifies and covers Worker B
Anoleis: Moves NW-NW onto grassland forest tile
Worker B: Chops grassland river forest (1T)
Citadel: 16/26 food, 12/15 production (Warrior), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]
Feros: 10/22 food, 12/30 production (Monument), working Pastured plains horses [1/4/1]

Turn 48
Pottery in ? turns, 6 gold
Jenkins: ?
Fredriks: Fortifies and covers Anoleis, or moves NW onto Grassland forest and covers him
Warrior 3: Fortifies and covers Worker B
Warrior 4: Moves SW onto plains river hill
Anoleis: Chops grassland forest (2T)
Worker B: Chops grassland river forest (done)
Citadel: 20/26 food, Warrior done (1 overflow), 1/30 production (Chariot), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1], +20 production from forest chop
Feros: 11/22 food, 16/30 production (Monument), working Pastured plains horses [1/4/1]

Turn 49
Pottery in ? turns, 5 gold
Jenkins: ?
Fredriks: Fortifies and and covers Anoleis
Warrior 3: Moves SE into the Citadel
Warrior 4: Fortifies and covers Worker B
Anoleis: Chops grassland forest (1T)
Worker B: Moves SE-SW onto plains river hill
Citadel: 24/26 food, 25/30 production (Chariot), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3] and Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1]
Feros: 12/22 food, 20/30 production (Monument), working Pastured plains horses [1/4/1]

Turn 50
Pottery in ? turns, 4 gold
Jenkins: ?
Fredriks: Fortifies and and covers Anoleis
Warrior 3: Guards the Citadel
Warrior 4: Fortifies and covers Worker B
Anoleis: Chops grassland forest (done)
Worker B: Chops plains river hill (2T)
Citadel: (Size 4) 2/28 food, 29/30 production (Chariot), working Farmed grassland river rice [5/0/1], Pastured plains river sheep [4/1/3], Mined grassland river hill [1/3/1] and Grassland Forest [2/1/0]
Feros: 13/22 food, 24/30 production (Monument), working Pastured plains horses [1/4/1], +20 production from forest chop

[ManiaMuse]

Does the plan/set of assumptions provide enough leeway if a warrior gets killed by a barb or otherwise?

Also are we going to try and spawnlock barbs out or are we going to be too stretched to try and do that? Since this is emperor the barbs don't start with archery and it depends on enough other teams researching archery. That will most certainly be slower than in SP so we may be able to do with just chariots for dealing with barb warriors and axes.

Oh and thanks for taking the time to work it out.

[SleepingMoogle]

It is a pretty tight build, but we can afford to lose one Warrior. That would just mean we won't be able to scout until we get some Chariots out. We should be pretty safe though. The only turns Jenkins would be exposed are T29 and T32, and in the latter case he will be close enough to our borders that there shouldn't be any barb animals around.

If we don't lose anyone though, we should be pretty safe. We'll have a Warrior to defend both cities, one more to cover Workers and Jenkins for scouting. We get the first chariot on T51 who can either bolster zone defense to intercept barbs, or go out to find other Civs. And once Feros finishes its Monument, we can start building a second Chariot there while growing to size 2, while the Citadel chops out another Worker/Settler pair.

Once pottery comes in, we can (and maybe should) start on Hunting and Archery to ensure city defense. It'll get to the point where single warriors just won't do anymore. If we have access to copper though, we could build some axes instead. We may also want to try and fit in Masonry somewhere to hook up the Stone. After that, Writing and Iron Working would be good as well.

[Bobchillingworth]

That's an excellent plan you've come up with, Moogle; I have no objections.


For archery and hunting, I think it'll be dependant on if we have copper or not whether we ever want to research it.

For barbs, since I think that barb spears tend to be pretty rare and our chariots will have odds on all the rest, I don't mind if a few spawn around us for the exp. We still should eventually get a sentry net up eventually though, possibly consisting of Sentry promoted chariots (once we have stables for the 2 promos), which will as a side effect block barb spawning.

[ManiaMuse]

Actually barb spawn blocking can be highly effective with unpromoted units since no barbs will spawn within 2 tiles of any unit even if the tiles are fogged. That means that there is a 5*5 grid around any unit which barbs can't spawn; the fact that some of those tiles might be fogged doesn't matter, barbs won't spawn in those tiles. If you abuse this game mechanic it means that you can effectively block barbs out with relatively few units although in this case it doesn't look like we're going to find a coast any time soon so will take a few more units. I think sentry promotions are best saved for a single unit in a stack when we are actually at war with someone.

[SleepingMoogle]

Turn 28:

Just how many floodplains are there down here? Not that I'm complaining, but this is getting a bit silly.



I followed the current build plan, so Anoleis is building a road towards the SW, covered by Fredriks. The Citadel is size 3 now, and switched production to a settler.

[SleepingMoogle]

Turn 29:

India got a huge score increase this turn. I'm not quite sure how that translates into actual in-game advances, probably they had several things happen at the same time. Anyway, since Stonehenge was already completed this turn(!) I'm assuming it was built by them, powered by Fast Workers and an Industrious leader. Ah well, at least never made a serious grab attempt.

Scouting continues, and we really aren't lacking for happiness resources:



Just to recap, we have Silver, Silks, Spices, Sugar and Wines all close to our capital. Couple that with our Civ and leader benefits and we can be darn sure we will be #1 in approval rate at least.

At the Citadel, Anoleis finished the road he was building. He will move onto the grassland river hill next turn and start mining it on T31. The Settler will complete in 9 turns.

Next turn we should know enough about the south to create a dotmap for the area.

[ManiaMuse]

Erm, run?

If both attack Jenkins it's fairly likely he will be killed, even in the jungle. I recommend deviating from our scouting path and moving to the forest to the SW. That way the chances of them both moving to attack on the same turn is less and if we get lucky one or both of them might attack across the river.

Also I think we should move our other warrior to spawnbust the 2nd city site as soon as possible, I know we are on the settler build at the moment but I think we can get the next warrior out quick enough if the citadel is threatened. The settler will take 10 turns total right? If I'm right I think hammer decay on units only starts after 10 turns so I think our micro should still be accurate.

[SleepingMoogle]

Ehm.. whoa!

Bumping into other barb animals eventually was a given, but this is pretty unlucky! Agreed that moving Jenkins back across the river is the best option here. Depending on what that lion north of him does, we should still be able to cover Anoleis at T35. But this is also a sign that keeping the area around the second city site defogged is a good idea. We could move Jenkins back there by backtracking on the scouting path and use the Fredricks for Worker cover?

The Settler will take 10 turns to complete yes, so we are just on the right side of unit decay. If needed we can finish the 3rd warrior in 1 turn, so the Citadel should be safe if we decide to move Fredricks out of the border.

Dantski requested a game reload to their last turn to correct a build error. I don't really mind, but also requested we reach some kind of agreement on when to request them. The further we get into the game, the more micro every team has to do, and the more likely mistakes like that are made.

[SleepingMoogle]

Maybe reloading will make those lions magically disappear. They might path differently though, and we couldn't really pretend we didn't know about the danger.

Anyway, an initial dotmap for our next couple of cities. There's definitely room for improvement, but just throwing it out for now:



Red dot we already agreed upon. Note that a forest has grown on the tile N of the jungle hill. I went through some old screenshots and this happened on T25 so reloading wouldn't lose us the extra chop. Anyway, grats to us for not noticing it until now.

Yellow dot will probably be our third city. I selected the spot as it allows us to work the Sugar, allows us to work both grassland river hills, and it seals off the Citadel better than the spot south of it would.

Blue dot could be our production city, especially if there's a food resource hiding in the fog. But even without, we'd have 6 hills and stone, and lots of grassland rivers to farm.

Green dot is placed next to the corn up there, and could be a mixed commerce and production city while sealing off the NW.

Purple dot is pretty much just a filler city. I would be looking to move it 1E if possible, especially if we can place a city south of it that can work the oasis.

White dot is just speculation for now. We really don't know enough about the north and northeast yet to place anything there.