RPB3 SPOILERS Bismarck of India (regoarrarr, darrelljs, sooooo, sunrise089)

[regoarrarr]

Okay here is the full chat transcript

Krill: Hello mate
can we hold the diplo in here?
easier to copy/paste for the private threads
me: ok
glad to see no workers of ours in range :-)
Krill: You could always agree to let me in that tech alliance of yours

me: if and when there becomes a tech alliance
i'd like you to be in it
(seriously)
i think that was one of the 2 or 3 bullet points we agreed to in our early game strategy sessions
Krill: If and when a tech alliance forms that I can fit in, I'd like to be in it.
(seriously)
What, don;t piss me off?
me: no, it was literally something like "if krill wants to be in our tech alliance, let him in" :-D
i'd have to look it up
honestly i think that you and us are perfect allies
we're both likely to be targeted
and as such i think it behooves us to stick together
Krill: You make a good point
Added bonus is that there is a decent chance we become neighbours
me: right
so, i don't know how prepared / willing you are to share map-type info at this point
i'm willing to lay all we have on the line
or at least most
Krill: I think I'm happy to share all of the map type info I have, save the exact location of my capital relative to yours
me: would some sort of early-ish NAP make you less hseitant to share that?
i don't feel like you need to give me exact tiles
but i've got a few theories on the map that would be more useful
if we knew our approximate relative locations
Krill: Sufficed to say I'm not an immediate neighbour
me: ok
Krill: but now Lobo is no longer present...
me: ah right
would he have been one of our neighbors?
Krill: yeah
me: intriguing
okay, so first of all we have met 2 civs other than you
ruff, who is to our east
and the HRE who is apparently far (30-40 tiles) to our SE
the HRE have also met another civ, to our more immediate SE, and that civ (who may even be you for all we know) asked the HRE to not disclose who they were to other civs
Krill: Well, that's not me
I don;t know of any civs in your part of hte world
me: ok
Krill: I've only met Dantski, who is to your southwest
me: ok
Krill: Lobo would have been to your south
me: about how many tiles is lobo's capital from ours?
Krill: I'm pretty sure this is a TBG map though
me: i'm not familiar with what that looks like?
Krill: need to count
square map
me: yeah
Krill: all land
me: obviously you've noted the lack of water
right
Krill: central band of desert and flood plain, probably right to the north of you
There is no tundra though, wouldn;t be enough habitable land for 17 teams
Sent at 10:21 PM on Friday
Krill: I think Lobo would have been about 15 tiles south of you
me: ok
so one hypothesis i had about the map, which may or may not line up with it being TBG
was that this was a square / rectangle map
with every civ placed about 12-16 tiles away from their NSWE neighbors
possibly toroidal in nature
Krill: I can confirm that it is toroidal...
me: oh yeah?
from maintenance costs?
Krill: as per city placements, it's not
from the fact that I've walked so many tiles north and still not seen the desert band
me: well, if it's a tbg map
are you figuring about 40x40?
Krill: 64^2
huge
Sent at 10:25 PM on Friday
me: right
that may havev been what i meant
4000 tiles
don't know why i thought that meant 40x40
(At least the weed smiley should post on the forums when we post it!)
Krill: yeah
So, I take it you haven't set up your new and improved UTA yet?
me: not yet
Krill: Figured out some sacrifice to get alphabet?
me: you're only the 3rd civ we've met
Krill: Not like you to have not considered who should research what. Like I would be expecting you to want to bulb Theo with yuor GP
which would mean you researching Monotheism
me: we're actually trying to just wing things
don't want to get an overwhelming GNP lead, iykwim
Krill: Kinda ironic considering yuo currently #1 in GNP :P
me: well that's only due to our 9cpt
we were dead last before that
someone else is only 1 behind us and 1/3 of our gnp is stonehenge culture!
Krill: That's intriguing
I take it you are doing some proper C&D work?
me: so far
Krill: I wonder what it would cost me to buy that off you :P
me: well what do you want to know
like i said, i'm a) an open book, b) liek to talk and c) want to be your ally in this game
shoudl be easy to ply me
Krill: Well, let's start with a simple one.
What info have you got on me so far?
me: 9/21 land tiles in capital (not that impressive since pretty much everyone does)
you had 8 starting health, which probably means river and 8-9 forests
you started with a 3 food tile
you've researched AH and then Mining
and your capital is currently size 2
unclear whether you have a 2nd warrior built though id' guess you do
that's it
Sent at 10:34 PM on Friday
Krill: OK, just one other question: do you know if anyone is heading for religion right now?
me: i know buddhism was founded
Krill: Yeah, Ruff got that
me: other than that i have no idea
right
Krill: Something slightly different...are you going for a religion right now?
me: i have not pegged anyone for researching mysticism
no
but there are obviously 4 other civs that started with myst
(besides ruff and us)
Krill: hmmm...does that include Lobo?
me: civs that have myst
inca, maya, us, byz, hre, aztecs
(so how'd i do on my c&d work on you?)
Krill: Well, I'm about to divulge a bit of information, but I can only really do that if you agree to not give it out to anyone beyond your own team.
If you do that then I can answer your question
me: okay
i can agree to that
Krill: Got my techs wrong
I went myst
I'm currently researching Poly
me: so AH->Myst
Krill: Yeah
so your soldier points is off
me: thanks for the update and i can seal that
yeah someone must have built a warrior
it's tough with thsi many teams (obviously)
Krill: Yeah, I decided I wasn't even going to bother
me: in fact just to make my life easier i'm going to go ahead and just give that warrior to you
makes mys preadsheet editing easier :-D
Krill: ha, ok
So, provided I got Hinduism, what would it take for me to get you to agree to spread Hinduism to everyone of your cities?
me: i don't know
that's probably not a question i can really answer off the cuff w/o consulting
ruff has offered to sell us some buddhist missionaries
as well
Krill: Eh, I'm offering to give them away
me: well, as i have told ruff, it's odd that even though there's no rational reason, it does seme like oftentimes there is a real human-human "we care for our brothers and sisters of the faith" bonus
and given i think we are natural allies
it seems like we could work something out
especially if you're providing the msisionaries
i know that's kind of a vague / cheap answer
but i don't know what else i can say this early on
Krill: ok. Well, the more gold I get via the shrine, the more gold I can give back to a tech alliance
me: right i think we've boths een how well that can work
Krill: True
And obviuosly I can get a very early shrine without any difficulty
me: so like i said i don't know of anyone that has researched myst, but there are 4 other civs (sumeria, babylon, ottomans and frane) that researched techs right around the same time as you that i pegged as mining that could be myst
also HRE last researched a tech on T22, same as when you did myst
Krill: Hopefully they are all going for BW
me: well Mining makes the most sense for most of those folks (it's all the people that started ag/wheel and went AH)
only a truly "sub-optimal" player would go Myst there :-D
Krill: Well, I did say...

me: yeah i know
Sent at 10:45 PM on Friday
Krill: Wll, I'm absolutely knackered. 4am here, preparing for working nights over the weekend.
So I'm off to sleep
you kow my gmaill addy, Krill@gmail.com
me: ok ttyl
yeah
our diplo is a little shaky this game
Krill: what's yours though?
me: as far as emails
we are DJCivilization@gmail.com
but it's probably best to hit up sunrise or I on GChat
Krill: ok
me: as we're still trying to figure out who/how/when we will be doing emails

Highlights-
* he thinks this is a Team Battleground map script.
* He is chasing Hinduism (and from C&D will likely land it, and around T37 or so)
* He wants to be in a tech alliance with us, and I said we wanted to as well
* Lobo (Korea)'s land is directly south of us - his capital about 15 tiles S
* If it's a true TBG script, tehre shoudl be desert / floodplains directly north of us
* Dantski is to our immediate SW, about 12ish tiles away.

[regoarrarr]

I opted to put 2t to chopping the forest 1W of the rice.

@soooo or darrell - what are thoughts on farming a river or non river tile (or even our sheep!??!). I think that's the next best thign to do with our workers, at least for a few (otherwise wasted) turns as we had towards the other sheep.

Do we finsih the chop on that forest into our settler?

Do we revolt to Slavery?

Pic is from last turn


Southern warrior moved 1SE on the desert, there is a l ion there at 0.8/2 health (that I think ate the HRE scout)

* I'm thinking 2nd city 1W of the copper on the plains hill - there are some flood plains NW of the sugar

[regoarrarr]

Quick rest of chat from Krill

new.mail.storage: quick question.
What was the last tech Sumeria discovered?
what turn.
me: T22
Mining (or Myst)
new.mail.storage: ...
me: right
new.mail.storage: I'm just wondering if he went straight for ph for Zigguruts
and via a religion
me: could be
new.mail.storage: is his capital size 2?
me: can you speed up by 1t?
new.mail.storage: I don;t think so
me: size 4
new.mail.storage: He is FIN, he probably makes more commerce than me, if his sheep is next to he river.
me: could be
you can always hope he went for med
ah nm budd was founded t12
new.mail.storage: oh via med
*or
religion is too big a plus to ignore for 36 beakers
me: right i was thinking med wasn't founded till after he started
but you're right that's unlikely he'd have gone via med

Basically it looks awful suspicious that Sumeria (our OTHER neighbor) is going for Polytheism and will likely beat Krill

[darrelljs]

I still think we chop our capital clean (including settler), then move workers to copper city and stone city.

Darrell

[darrelljs]

Good work on krill.

So I'd chop settler warrior settler fast worker, and revolt to slavery while first settler is heading to copper.

Darrell

[sooooo]

I agree that normally the best time to revolt to slavery is when the first settler in en-route. I think chop the current forest and the next one at least. Once we have wheel we have plenty of things for our workers to do, so now we don't we may as well chop. I think we want to build a scout once we have hunting, so I think after the current settler we want warrior, scout.

Am I right in thinking our tech path is to go to AH after hunting and hope we have horses?

Where are we putting copper city? The two options to me seem to be 1W of the copper (1 flood plains and sugar) and 2W, 1S of the copper (2 flood plains and some grass river tiles). Probably 1W of the copper is best.

[novice]

Why not the rice/pigs/copper site?

[regoarrarr]

I think that we should go 1W of the copper so we can have it in the first ring. We're slightly vulnerable here until we can get some non-warrior units up and running.

I will chop with our workers, but next turn they both have "free" turns - sooooo or darrell - anything better than 2t into a riverside farm?

And I think after Hunting we go either AH or the wheel.

Slavery revolt when settler is in route

[darrelljs]

We can't hook the Copper up until we have The Wheel, and by then we'll have the first border pop. Maybe we should do The Wheel before AH for that reason. Building Warrior -> Scout -> Settler looks good.

For the city location I prefer it to be closer to the capital, so I like grabbing the Pig and Copper by settling 1W of the lake. As novice points out, this shares the Rice.

Darrell

[Rowain]

For what it's worth but I do agree with darrel: Pigs,copper, sharable rice and some nice hills for production. Additional closer to the capital means less maintenance especially if Krill is right with his toroidal guess.

PS: I only lurk in your thread here so thats just my unspoiled opinion.