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SORCERY Realm

Spells marked Green are spells I'm 100% satisfied with. They won't be changed unless there is a very good reason to.
Spells marked Red are what I'm not satisfied with, and think requires some sort of a significant change.
Spells marked Blue are good the way they are, but might need numerical tweaking (on costs, or effect strength)
Spells marked neither are spells I don't have enough experience using and fighting against to judge.

Concept
The realm of Sorcery is mainly about manipulating magic itself, preventing enemy spells from taking effect, banishing enemy fantastic creatures, and such. Spells are generally tactical or defensive, and related to the elements of Air and Water.

Strengths :
-Countering and dispelling enemy spells
-Powerful options for combat spellcasting
-Only realm with a spell to help in diplomacy, and one of the two realms that can directly increase Casting Skill by spells.

Weaknesses :
-No spells that boost or weaken economy in any way
-Second worst realm at summoning and direct damage
-Buffs do not directly increase stats on units, but provide more tactical benefits.

Common Spells
Word of Recall : removed from the game.
Overpowered, by far the most overpowered spell in the entire game. With this you can have your unbeatable stack of 9 units appear wherever needed, whenever needed, making all other armies, both defensive or offensive, unnecessary. This spell beats having a long term strategy 100% of the time.

Dispel Magic True : removed from the game.
Redundant effect.

1. AEther Sparks
Cost : 12
Research : 100
Effect : Does a strength 20 magical attack to target unit. That unit loses half its remaining mana and ammo if having a magical ranged attack.
A direct damage spell that is weaker than average and is not illusion (all common Sorcery spells did Illusion damage!), but comes with a useful side effect, to open up more choices in early game combat.

2. Confusion
Cost : 18
Research : 100
Effect : Save at -2 or become confused. Confused units have a 25% chance per turn to : a. Do nothing, b. move randomly, c. be unaffected, d. be controlled by the enemy for the turn. Confused units, like Possessed or Binded units, always die at end of combat, unless the spell is dispelled, and cannot regenerate.
Changed to enforce the death of the unit like other "gain control" effects. Since the unit is effectively dangerous to its allies, attacking them randomly, the winner's army can't afford to keep them alive. Already had this effect when "retreating exhausted", but not when winning, which was inconsistent. Having some doubts about this solution, but without this, Confusion might be a bit too weak now that bugs are fixed. I would definitely like to hear opinions on this one, it's a major change to an already useful spell, which might end up being overpowered.

3. Focus Magic (new)
Cost : 80
Maintenance : 2
Research : 100
Effect : Enchanted unit has +15 Caster ability, and +3 magical ranged attack. If no magical ranged attack, add one. If nonmagical ranged attack, convert to magical but do not add +3.
The game had no way to buff magical ranged attacks (which feels very Sorcery-like), no way to buff "caster" ability, and no way to grant a ranged attack to a unit not having one. This spell does all 3, opening up some interesting new combinations.

4. Resist Magic
Cost : 5/25
Maintenance : 0
Research : 100
Effect : Enchanted unit has +5 resistance against everything except poison.
Can be very helpful against an enemy that relies on resistance based spells, but the unit can still get hurt by anything else, so a low cost and rarity is fair for this situational and incomplete protection. +5 resistance, while a lot, does not always provide immunity, either.


5. Guardian Wind
Cost : 10/50
Maintenance : 0
Research : 100
Effect : Enchanted unit gains Missile Immunity.
Most late game units have rock or magical ranged attacks which are unaffected, making it a fair common spell. Missile units are still able to attack your other troops unless you buff them all.

6. Nagas
Cost : 70
Maintenance : 2
Research : 80
Effect :Summoning 3 figures : Melee 5, +1 To Hit, Defense 4, Resistance 7, Moves 3, 5 health, First Strike, Poison 4, Swimming.
Extremely devastating against early game low resistance race normal units, but very easy to counter by anything that has poison immunity or high resistance. Pretty high cost and inefficient if poison cannot be taken advantage of. Decent for early access to other continents.

7. Phantom Warriors
Cost : 15
Research : 100
Effect :Summoning a unit of Phantom Warriors in combat (original stats, but 7 figures)
Does illusion damage but you have to get close to the enemy and attack them, which is enough of a limitation to warrant being more cost-effective than Psionic Blast. Now that the "units not affected by buffs the turn they are summoned" bug is fixed, these might be quite a good choice in battles where many such effects are present (Sorcery node, Prayer, Metal Fires, etc)

8. Psionic Blast
Cost : 20
Research : 200
Effect : Does a strength 16 Illusion attack to the target.
A strength 16 attack translates to about 4.8 damage on average, making this about half of a doom bolt, but without the reliability of fixed damage. Phantom Warriors deal more damage if the enemy is in range (7x3=21 strength attack), even though they also costs 9 mana less but you usually can't do that when attacking. However, compared to Doom Bolt's damage to cost ratio for def ignoring damage, this can't get any better.

9. Blur
Cost : 25
Research : 200
Effect : Friendly units in combat have a 25% chance to not take damage for each point of damage dealt to them.
Not as good as Prayer, but is not trying to be either, and comes at a lower cost. Still almost as good as a -1 hit on all enemies.

10. Floating Island
Cost : 50
Maintenance : 1
Research : 50
Effect :Summons a Floating Island
Same as always, but now offers an actual "floating" area during combat on which the units stand. Ships cannot enter this area. (although walking and swimming units can.) Quite powerful against lower class ships, as they cannot fight back when attacked through range. Higher class ships have ranged attacks of their own to retaliate. Overall this boost in power is probably not going to be a threat to balance, as it only affects naval combat, which, although now more important, is rarely the decisive factor in victory since controlling the ocean provides no actual resources, merely transportation.

Uncommon Spells

Wind Mastery : removed from the game.
Uninteresting global enchantment with a pointless and underwhelming effect. Seas can be crossed by many ways that do not use ships.

1. Aura of Majesty
Cost : 200
Maintenance : 5
Research : 400
Effect : Diplomatic relations with everyone gain +2 per turn, every turn (and +4 the turn it is cast)
Might be too good at +2, although not being at war does not win you the game, the enemy will get stronger the more you wait. The problem I believe is, while the spell doesn't matter much below -40 relation (guaranteed war) or above +20 (AI will offer you a wizard pact), the gap in between these (especially considering most relations start near 0) can be closed by the spell in mere 5-10 turns. After that point it accelerates the Wizard's Pact into an Alliance at a crazy rate, and then you can force the AI to declare war on anyone you wish (unless they are also allied with that wizard.), the entire process taking only about 20-30 turns, which means it's fast enough to do so to the first wizard you meet even before you have contact with anyone else (especially if you are carefully not exploring too much), so you pretty much start by already having an ally.
On the other hand about 50% of the wizards are pretty much immune : Militarist and Expansionist will declare war even if they like you although only if your army is lacking, and Chaotic will just break whatever treaty anyway. Everyone else though can be brainwashed, even Maniacal.
I feel reverting this to +1 might be better?
On the other hand the above requires you to accelerate research into this, cast it for 200, maintain for 5 and take the risk of having no one to influence. So if the effect would be twice as slow that could just make it too weak.
I really don't know.


2. Counter Magic
Cost : 50
Research : 400
Effect : Creates a counter pool of 80. Enemy spells have a (cost/80 cost) chance for success, failing that, they get countered, in which case the CM pool is reduced by 10 for the next spell attempt.
The formula is new, and allows 100% success for spells more expensive than Counter Magic itself. In general, it is only a good choice against cheaper spells, which is a reasonable limitation for a common.

3. Spell Lock
Cost : 100
Maintenance : 1
Research : 400
Effect : Spells on enchanted units cannot be dispelled except this one. If enchanted creature is fantastic, it isn't affected by anti-fantastic creature spells that instantly destroy them.
With lower mainenance costs on unit enchanetments in general, there is a much better chance you'll want to use this, and it was cheap to begin with, so no need to buff. However, the ability to counter a possible very expensive dispel or disechant by merely spending 20 to recast the removed spell lock – if it was even successful – is now gone as it is limited to overland only.
While it used to be brutally effective against the AI since you could recast it and the few lost enchantments after every taken city, I expect this to change in 2.6, where the AI can and will target buffed stacks with Dispelling Wave, if they have the spell.
It also has a cap on how much they want to use Dispel Magic, so spell lock+lots of buffs will not force the AI to always dispel even instead of critical spells like Call Chaos or Disintegrate or High Prayer.


4. Spell Blast
Cost : 50
Research : 400
Effect : Counters the overland spell being cast by a wizard overland, but have to spend mana equal to the amount spent on the spell.
A very powerful spell, however, now it causes a diplomatic penalty when used, proportional to the full cost of the targeted spell, which removes the greatest abuse of Sorcery magic, hindering other players while they are at peace with you.

5. Vertigo
Cost : 10
Research : 400
Effect : If target unit fails to resist at -4 in combat, it gets -3 To Hit and -1 To Defend.

6. Dispelling Wave (Disenchant True)
Cost : 25+
Research : 400
Effect : Attempts to dispel all enemy positive spells on a targeted overland map square, or all enemy spells in combat (except combat enchantments). Has 1 effectiveness per 2 mana.
Changed to only work on enemy buffs overland, so Disenchant Area is still useful to remove curses. Disenchant Area can no longer remove buffs from enemy cities and units on the overland map. This makes city defense buffs more useful, and gets rid of the AI's disadvantage of not being able to tell when a city needs to be disenchanted prior to starting combat.
Starting at 2.6 the AI will be able to use this as though it was a "curse" type spell (think spell blast, drain power or corruption) meaning they will only use it if having hostile intent. They'll seek out the spot on the map with the most unit and/or city enchantments (some having more priority than others) and target it there. I expect this to cut down on super buffed spell lock hero (or other) doom stack abuse a little.


7. Flight
Cost : 22/110
Maintenance : 2
Research : 400
Effect : Enchanted unit is flying.
Not much I can say about this, it's a good buff.

8. Water Elemental
Cost : 150
Maintenance 3
Research : 400
Effect : Summons a Water Elemental.
Melee 14
Magic ranged 14 (4 ammo)
Armor 7
Resistance 7
Health 15
+2 to hit

9. AEther Binding
Cost : 400
Maintenance : 20
Research : 800
Effect : Add power to skill pool equal to current casting skill each turn (not updated, check this). Dispel Magic, Dispelling Wave, Disenchant Area and Disjuction is twice as effective.
Effectively increases casting skill by 1 every second turn. Quite powerful, but due to the faster pace of the game, not overly so. Now serves to replace the "True" version of dispelling spells as well, without wasting spell slots.

10. Phantom Beast
Cost : 35
Research : 600
Effect : Summons a Phantom Beast in combat. Health of the Phantom Beast is increased by 5 to 25.
A quite powerful combat summon, that doesn't do much more damage than Phantom Warriors, but has far more health, so it lasts longer unless fighting high attack enemies in theory, but needed extra health to actually do so.
Phantom Warriors do 21 swords worth of damage and you can summon almost 3 from the cost of the beast. The beast would need to survive at least 3 attacks to perform better, and at the original 20 health this was extremely unlikely. A stack of halberdiers (6 melee, +1 to hit) is expected to do 14.4 damage to the beast on every attack due to zero armor. Generally still worse than warriors against high end units, however, can do acceptable against illusion immunity, offers a better presence in combat, and can be quite potent if buffed (especially with Iron Skin or Invulnerability). Cost restored to 35 to compare more favorably to warriors as well.
Now that ongoing effects like prayer are applied to summoned units immediately, this can be quite powerful. The AI can and will target summoning spells near enemy units in combat starting in 2.6, making this spell one of the best ways Sorcery wizards can deal with super powerful heroes.

Rare Spells

Disjunction True : Removed from the game.
Redundant.

1. Uranus' Blessing (new)
Cost : 200
Maintenance : 7
Research : 1600
Effect : Enchanted City gains the following benefits :
-Start combat with a 70 strength counter magic on the defender's side.
-Wizards' Guilds, Alchemists Guilds produce 10 more power
-Amplifying Towers give 4 more skill
-Units are built as though an Alchemists Guild was present, even if it is not.
Aims to be a diverse buff spell like Gaea's Blessing, but on magic related functions.
While it's massively powerful, it takes over 40 turns to pay for itself even if all buildings are present so it is by no means always the best choice. I think it's fine the way it is. The 50 Counter Magic also means you won't be able to use a 70 CM so you're actually more vulnerable to high end spells than you otherwise would be (but of course save a lot of mana in the process).


2. Mind Storm
Cost : 35
Research : 1600
Effect : Enchanted enemy unit in combat has -3 melee, -5 ranged/thrown/breath, -5 resistance, -5 defense.
A powerful, crippling debuff to most stats, but slightly less effective on melee attack to balance it out. Resistance reduction is high enough to allow hitting almost anything with any curse, giving this spell huge combo potential.

3. Air Elemental
Cost : 50
Research : 1600
Effect : Summons an Air elemental in combat. Starting at 2.6, Air Elementals have Armor Piercing, 15 melee, +1 to hit, 7 armor, 9 resistance, 5 movement and 10 health.
Buffed up slightly but not sure if it's really necessary. The original strength of this creature was forcing the enemy to retreat (since they either can't fly or can't see invisible) however the AI is far better at countering both of these strategies now. As a combat unit it was barely better than a Fire Elemental (although the -1 to hit on enemies from invisibility is huge, this is a 50 mana creature with the stats of a 20 mana one still) and in most cases way inferior to a phantom beast (mainly in damage but often even in durability!), so I added Armor Piercing and raised armor back to 7. It's still a lot weaker than the only other equal rarity summon, the Earth Elemental so I guess it's fine.

4. Invisibility
Cost : 30/150
Research : 1600
Maintenance : 4
Effect : Enchanted unit is invisible

5. Wind Walking
Cost : 200
Research : 1600
Maintenance : 7
Effect : Enchanted unit has Wind Walking

6. Banish
Cost : 35
Research : 1600
Effect : Each figure in target fantastic unit must resist at -4 or be disintegrated.
A powerful spell that can kill almost any fantastic creature aside from some very rares. Even those are not out of reach with some resistance lowering curses! Effect is identical to "Exorcism" replacement of Dispel Evil, but the modifier is so much higher that it offers entirely different possibilities, unlike the original Dispel Evil which had an identical modifier.

7. Storm Giant
Cost : 330
Research : 1600
Maintenance : 5
Effect : Summoning 1 figure : Melee 18, Magical ranged 18 (4 ammo), +2 To Hit, Defense 7, Resistance 9, Moves 3, 25 health, Missile Immunity, Armor Piercing, Wall Crusher.
Compared to Stone Giants, this is slightly more damaging, but a lot less durable (5 armor is a lot) and almost as expensive. Overall a little bit weaker than average but more versatile due to armor piercing.

8. Magic Immunity
Cost : 35/175
Research : 2400
Maintenance : 10
Effect : Enchanted unit has Magic Immunity. No longer blocks breath attacks.
Extremely powerful protective spell for an extreme cost. Blocks almost everything except melee and missile ranged attacks.

9. Stasis
Cost : 25/125
Research : 800
Effect : Target stack must resist at -5 or be unable to move each turn on the overland map. Target unit must resist at -5 or be unable to act for the rest of the combat if used in combat.

10. Flying Fortress
Cost : 200
Research : 800
Maintenance : 3
Effect : Only flying units may enter the city tiles during combat. All units defending enchanted city gains flying ability which cannot be removed by Black Sleep and Web.
Don't have enough experience with this spell. AI now knows what spells to use against it in combat. Needs testing on how powerful it is at stopping enemies. Starting at 2.6 the AI can dispel on the overland map again, although only Sorcery wizards will be able to.
Fixed a lot of bugs in this so it now actually does what it is supposed to instead of letting land units attack through it.

Very Rare Spells

1. Spell Binding
Cost : 1200 (+40% for AI)
Research : 8000
Effect : Steal a global enchantment, 100% success rate.
Extremely powerful spell that wins the game, or at least forces enemy wizards to waste most of their skill and mana on dispelling and recasting their own enchantments. Would be overpowered as anything else except Very Rare Sorcery.

2. Mass Invisibility
Cost : 80
Research : 6000
Effect : All friendly units in combat are invisible.
A powerful buff that penalizes all enemy units by -1 to hit, as well as making the entire army immune to ranged attacks of all forms, and even against enemy spells in some situations.

3. Suppress Magic
Cost : 1200 (+40% for AI)
Research : 8000
Maintenance : 50
Effect : All overland spells must resist the same way as against Counter Magic in combat, but Suppress Magic counts as a strength 1000 counter pool that does not lose effectiveness over time. Success rate is 100% at 500 MP.
Cost reduced to 1200 to allow more reasonable chance of dispelling.

4. Spell Ward
Cost : 150
Research : 3000
Maintenance : 1
Effect : Enchanted city is protected from spells of that realm. Fantastic creatures of that realm are penalized by -2 To Hit, -4 defense and resistance in the city. Spells of that realm cannot be cast during combat.
Being able to enter is more AI friendly and less overpowered, but the penalty is large enough that even the best fantastic units are reduced to be only minor threats. The AI learned to use this spell correctly in 2.5x and will now make sure it doesn't penalize its own garrison. It also selects the realm to ward against smarter.

5. Djinn
Cost : 375
Research : 2000
Maintenance : 9
Effect :  Summoning 1 figure : Melee 18, Magical ranged 15 (8 ammo), +3 To Hit, Defense 8, Resistance 12, Moves 4, 29 health,
Wind Walking, Flying, Caster 40.

6. Creature Binding
Cost : 50
Research : 4000
Effect : Takes permanent control of a fantastic creature if it fails to resist at -4. Works on units with Illusions Immunity.

Improved version of Banish, this also give you the creature.

7. Haste
Cost : 50
Research : 6000
Effect : Enchanted unit gains haste (attacks twice per attack)
This ability feels quite off-color, and it is somewhat overpowered, although reasonable for Very Rare. Effectively a Berserk without drawbacks. I think it would be more fitting for Chaos, but that realm has no need for it, Sorcery on the other hand lacks offensive options entirely for combat, aside from illusion based damage. On the other hand, casting this on high end fantastic units like Sky Drakes is outright overpowered, especially since Sorcery units tend to be hard to damage/kill to being with.
Changed to only work on attacks, not counterattacks, this might make it actually balanced.


8. Sky Drake
Cost : 500
Research : 8000
Maintenance : 15
Effect : Summoning 1 figure : Melee 28, Lightning Breath 21, +3 To Hit, Defense 10, Resistance 14, Moves 4, 30 health,
Flying, Magic Immunity, Illusion Immunity.
Quite a lot weaker than Great Drake and for more mana, but is immune to magic and illusions which is a great advantage on a unit of this power.
Reduced breath to 18.
(Feels a bit too superior to Great Wyrm though, having more armor, two attacks of almost identical strength (one of which pierces armor like the Wyrm), and three valuable abilities in exchange for 1/3 less health and no teleportation at the same cost. While the melee attack of 25 is fair, Lightning Breath should probably be toned down to ~18.)


9. Great Unsummoning
Cost : 700 (+40% for AI)
Research : 3000
Effect : All enemy fantastic creature units must resist at -3 or be disintegrated.
Due to misleading help text, I assumed this has a -2 resistance penalty, but game code reveals it is -3. Although all very rare creatures (except Death Knights) are unaffected, it still is a very powerful effect against most rare or lower creatures AND a pretty nice counter to Doom Mastery and Zombie Mastery. See page 6/7 of the thread for the discussion about this, I hope it'll be now as good as it should by only hitting enemies and coming cheaper and earlier.

10. Time Stop
Cost : 1500 (+40% for AI)
Research : 8000
Maintenance : 100*turns elapsed since the spell was cast
Effect : Enemy wizards do not get an overland turn. No resource is being generated while the spell is in effect.
As all other resources are disabled, this effectively allows you to get extra overland casting opportunity, and troop movement for mana crystals, which is still a very very powerful effect.

Item Powers

Phantasmal
Cost : 1000
Required books : 4
A very powerful effect, balanced by the fact that illusion immunity negates it.

Guardian Wind
Cost : 150
Required books : 1

Haste
Cost : 1200
Required books : 5
Extreme cost, for an extreme power, this doubles the effectiveness of any melee hero and even helps for ranged. Would be better as a Chaos enchantment but, see spell for reasons why it stays Sorcery. Combining it with Illusion is especially worrying, though. Cost might be too much now that haste no longer grants double counterattacks?

Resist Magic
Cost : 300
Required books : 3
Offers more resistance than the highest you can currently enchant into items, which is enough of a reason to have a cost that is not cheap.

Magic Immunity
Cost : 2500 but cannot enchant it, only find on predefined artifacts.
Required books : -
Unremovable immunity to pretty much everything that could kill a hero except from one spell, is just a bad idea. The enchantment, although powerful, can at least be dispelled.

Teleportation (new)
Cost : 1200
Required books : 5
Grants +1 To Defend, +1 movement, teleportation movement type.

Invisibility
Cost : 500
Required books : 3
Reply

Hm. Thoughts on extra spells:

It's likely that the code for Guises is still in the game somewhere. If it can be made to do something useful that could be neat.

It's notable that there is no spell that allows a unit to do illusion damage, though it can be obtained via magic item. That might be an appropriate Rare effect.
Reply

(March 18th, 2016, 16:51)Anthony Wrote: It's likely that the code for Guises is still in the game somewhere. If it can be made to do something useful that could be neat.
But that's a spell that literally does absolutely nothing!
I mean, the AI knows what the creature is and that would not change if the spell was cast on it.
And if the AI casts it, mousing over the unit shows the real stats...
Besides it's really easy to tell if a monster is fake or not, if you did not see the enemy cast that summoning spell overland then it's fake. Same if it's the wrong realm.
Quote:It's notable that there is no spell that allows a unit to do illusion damage, though it can be obtained via magic item. That might be an appropriate Rare effect.
Interesting but every unit buff flag is currently in use so that's out unless one is removed. Same for combat and global enchantments, all are in use. I think this would be far too overpowered, though.
A chaos version for doom damage would be more fitting for the realm it is in but same problem, too powerful.
Reply

(March 18th, 2016, 17:09)Seravy Wrote:
(March 18th, 2016, 16:51)Anthony Wrote: It's likely that the code for Guises is still in the game somewhere. If it can be made to do something useful that could be neat.
But that's a spell that literally does absolutely nothing!
Yes, but if the UI still exists maybe it can be adapted to do something useful. Not sure what that would be though (where is the disguise stored?)
Reply

(March 18th, 2016, 17:19)Anthony Wrote:
(March 18th, 2016, 17:09)Seravy Wrote:
(March 18th, 2016, 16:51)Anthony Wrote: It's likely that the code for Guises is still in the game somewhere. If it can be made to do something useful that could be neat.
But that's a spell that literally does absolutely nothing!
Yes, but if the UI still exists maybe it can be adapted to do something useful. Not sure what that would be though (where is the disguise stored?)

Nowhere. Changing any of the 3 bytes marked "unknown" for overland unit data does not change the appearance of units.
There is a good chance the code is no longer included.
Reply

Just correct the bug in the mouse over text to read correctly. Guises sounds like a fun spell. For the computer, anyway.
Reply

(March 19th, 2016, 09:09)Tiltowait Wrote: Just correct the bug in the mouse over text to read correctly. Guises sounds like a fun spell. For the computer, anyway.

Yeah that's the problem. Games are made for humans to have fun, not computers.
If guises is cast by a computer though, these are the 3 most likely outcomes
-The player already knows the existence of the spell and isn't mislead by it, nothing achieved.
-The player does not know, loses the battle they knew they must have won. They reload, pay more attention, notice that enemies do not deal damage according to their stats. Then they either report it as a bug, or quit playing. Horrible outcome in both cases.
-The player is ignorant enough to not even notice, in which case it did nothing, again. Alternatively they might end up believing in fictional game rules based on how the units they saw performed in combat, and will be expecting their (unguised) units to do the same which is obviously impossible, then getting pissed off, calling the game a cheater and rage quit.

I only see potential harm in this spell, and nothing good at all.

Besides, neither the code nor the data field for the spell seems to exist in the game anymore (though I might be wrong on the code part, but there at least wasn't anything labeled "guises" in Kyrub's files, nor did I find anything resembling it.
Reply

(March 19th, 2016, 09:29)Seravy Wrote:
(March 19th, 2016, 09:09)Tiltowait Wrote: Just correct the bug in the mouse over text to read correctly. Guises sounds like a fun spell. For the computer, anyway.
Yeah that's the problem. Games are made for humans to have fun, not computers.

Indeed, I agree. Guises would be fun to play against. I think you missed the point there. The bug with the correct text remaining was just a dumb bug, of the type that the MoM programmers were prone to make, sadly. Without it Guises is pretty cool.

Quote:If guises is cast by a computer though, these are the 3 most likely outcomes
-The player already knows the existence of the spell and isn't mislead by it, nothing achieved.

How would you know which unit is under the disguise? It could be a Paladins disguised as Swordsmen, in a stack of Swordsmen.

Quote:-The player does not know, loses the battle they knew they must have won. They reload, pay more attention, notice that enemies do not deal damage according to their stats. Then they either report it as a bug, or quit playing. Horrible outcome in both cases.

I don't follow. How can you say that one of these two reactions will happen? Particularly when you know you're fighting against a wizard with sorcery books? I get the idea you assume that the way that you react would be the way that everyone will react. IIRC Guises only affected the overworld map anyway. In combat, the player would get close enough to the unit to see through the illusion.

Quote:Besides, neither the code nor the data field for the spell seems to exist in the game anymore (though I might be wrong on the code part, but there at least wasn't anything labeled "guises" in Kyrub's files, nor did I find anything resembling it.

The code exists in v1.1, it was removed in v1.2 and replaced with Blur. You'd have to install v1.1 to see it in action. I played a game of v1.1, it was a trip. It's cool seeing where MoM came from and why they made the changes they did in v1.2 and v1.31. I just wish they could have continued developing on to v1.4 and beyond, it could have been even better. But I get the idea they got it mostly working and then just dumped it. The fact that it is still fondly remembered as a classic is due to the wonderful hybrid they produced from Civilization (1 of course) and Magic: the Gathering. Plus the fact that fantasy wargames are few and far between.
Reply

(March 19th, 2016, 12:23)Tiltowait Wrote: How would you know which unit is under the disguise? It could be a Paladins disguised as Swordsmen, in a stack of Swordsmen.
I check what race the AI is playing and what realms it has.
A Great Drake or klackon swordmen in a stack of high men swordmen is kinda obvious. The former is also obvious if the game hasn't progressed far enough for one to be summoned yet, too. (mercenaries are possible but unlikely. Assuming it's disguised and bringing a stronger army is the correct reaction at worst it's an overkill.)
If it's faking a hero, the Magic screen reveals the actual heroes the wizard has.
Furthermore, Detect Magic will outright tell you if the enemy ever summoned the monsters you see in the amounts you see, or not.
Trading, if you have the correct realm, can also reveal they do not have the spell to summon the monster.
Normal units are trickier, but none of the normal units are powerful enough to be really matter even if disguised in the critical battles.
Furthermore in your example the paladins would get revealed by all units receiving a holy bonus in the stack.

Quote:I don't follow. How can you say that one of these two reactions will happen? Particularly when you know you're fighting against a wizard with sorcery books? I get the idea you assume that the way that you react would be the way that everyone will react. IIRC Guises only affected the overworld map anyway. In combat, the player would get close enough to the unit to see through the illusion.
Overland only? Wait, seriously? That's even more lame than I thought.

I assumed the player never heard of the spell and haven't played Sorcery yet in the mod to be aware of its existence. Considering the reputation of the game, if anything acts differently from what's written in help or displayed on the unit, it's common sense to assume it's a bug and react accordingly. If they know about the spell, see above on how to figure out if the enemy units are real or not.
By the way I would not react like that, if I knew the spell exists, but that's a different story. I might post a bug report if I haven't known about it but it's more likely I check documentations first. However, most players will not do that.
If only every second player thinks it's a bug and posts it on the forum, that's already bad enough, both for me (as I have to reply them) and the mod (as the more bug reports are posted, the less likely people will want to try it out). I'm not saying my examples cover all possible player reaction, but these are definitely possible and would be pretty bad.

Quote:You'd have to install v1.1 to see it in action.
I wanted to do that anyway (no time though), I vaguely remember I played this even on 1.0 and it had different spells, so I wanted to check them out for ideas. As far as I remember, Whirlwind was pretty overpowered, but I no longer remember what it did, so might be worth checking that out too.

Edit : tried the spell.
-You can only change the unit into something that is fantastic, or the Dervish hero specifically.
-Right clicking on the unit shows the real stats, real name, and real abilities. I expected this much, as it would have been needed to code every stat separately to account for guises and redirect the displayed value to another unit, one that does not even exists (since it is just copying a unit TYPE not an existing unit that is in the game already)
Haven't tried it on enemy units for obvious reasons but I expect the same.

Also, i did not find the Whirldwind spell, maybe it was the 1.0/demo...couldn't get that to work, give me errors.
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I realized we have a slot for adding a new city curse, or buff, since the removed Cursed Lands's slot is unused.

A buff to increase power from magical buildings, or research would feel right for Sorcery I think.
Something like :
Blessing of Uranus
Doubles the effect of Library, Sage's Guild, University, Amplifying Tower, Wizard's Guild, and Alchemists Guild.
Cost : 200
Maintenance : 5

Alternatively we could have
Zeus's Blessing
Fortress lightning is in effect as though this city was the caster's capital.
I prefer the former though, as this would be far too powerful together with Flying Fortress (enemy can't enter but is present in the battle so the units die to the lightning for free).

Or we can have a spell that does both, even.

For the common slot, we could have a cold based damage spell, like Frost sparks, that is a nonillusion, direct damage spell. Like Fairy Dust in nature, but not all figure hitting. Something like strength 18 for 10 mana could work. Or we could make it just do neutral damage.
Or how about this :
Magic Missles
cost : 12 MP
Hits the targeted unit with a strength 20 magical attack. If any damage was dealt, that unit loses half of its remaining magical ammo, and mana.
Slightly worse damage to cost ratio than Fire Bolt, but with an additional effect?

How should be replicate Dispel Magic and Disjunction True after they are replaced by the new spells?
-Arcane versions gain double effectiveness if caster has X+ Sorcery books. (X being 4 or 5)
-Arcane versions gain double effectiveness if caster has Sorcery Mastery (would probably be fair if other Masteries also had some extra benefit only)
-Do not replicate, Spell Binding is a superior option to Disjunction True, and Disenchant True is superior to Dispel Magic, so they were redundant to begin with (I'm leaning towards this one now)
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