[Spoilers] Dreylin's short visit to a late Era

[OT4E]

Physics is good, but 480 gpp is not easy to get considering we switch from caste on T25 for unknown time and we switch from pacifism and merc for I believe forever. We are now making 54 points and will make 216/480 and will be making just 12 points. So it means that it will take us ~30 turns to get this GS. Will it wait for us? I think we cant base our plans on it and need a plan which gives us chance to use the advantage we have gained in the best way.

We have top power and we dont need much to cover our new settlements. Most of civs havent even built basic military. But I am not against 1-2 circles of drafts at all, just want to find it the most proper use.

[Dreylin]

Hmmm, true I hadn't been thinking in terms of the impact of Civics switches.

So what do you think we adopt given Kremlin; do we need Slavery right away, or should we plan on a trip to Serfdom first to start laying Workshops? I assume UniSuff since we're moving out of Merc and devaluing Rep, and then OrgRel in for Pacifism for the same reason? And Bureau for a round until the Draft anger wears off?

So: UniSuff, Bureau, Serfdom, SP, OrgRel


BTW, I meant to ask you to check if pindicator & REM are at war? they've been playing what might be a turnsplit and REM did settle right up to pindicators borders. Plus Cossacks...

[Dreylin]

Sent a quick ping to Donovan to see if he was waiting for CH's input or had just forgotten to end turn.

BGN hasn't played yet....

[OT4E]

So what do you think we adopt given Kremlin; do we need Slavery right away, or should we plan on a trip to Serfdom first to start laying Workshops?

No Serfdorm.
Rushing Kremlin and not slaving asap is not wise imho. We need to use it as immediate advantage, and farms we built come handy. But there are 2 major options how to use whipping bonus:
1) build army really quick and make a visit to one of our neighbors and steal land from them. This one I lean to, because I dont see how DZ for example can defend against 10 cavs, 10-15 rifles an 4-6 siege we can bring to them in something like 10 turns
2) build settlers and expand densly around or in next to one of our neighbours to consume him later

The plan for the closest future is to use farms mostly and to just start adding workshops to production cycles.

I assume UniSuff since we're moving out of Merc and devaluing Rep, and then OrgRel in for Pacifism for the same reason? And Bureau for a round until the Draft anger wears off?

US is nice indeed, since it works well with Kremlin but the bonus is less that for slavery, but it is still important. We need to manage our happiness though, because rep gives +3 and nationhood gives +2 for barracks and it is significant. Imho, there is no need in bureau for the next 10 turns. We can consider making cottaged cap with Oxford, but right now we have not much to increase by Bureau.

SP, OrgRel - of course

BTW, I meant to ask you to check if pindicator & REM are at war? they've been playing what might be a turnsplit and REM did settle right up to pindicators borders. Plus Cossacks...

Sorry I didnt notice, but I believe nobody is at war so far.

Sent a quick ping to Donovan to see if he was waiting for CH's input or had just forgotten to end turn.

BGN hasn't played yet....

I am at home and if they play it within next 2-3 hours I will get in really quick. Hope BGN will be as lazy as allways.

[Dreylin]

BTW, I meant to ask you to check if pindicator & REM are at war? they've been playing what might be a turnsplit and REM did settle right up to pindicators borders. Plus Cossacks...

Sorry I didnt notice, but I believe nobody is at war so far.

Except us, of course ... thus adding to your reputation!

So what do you think we adopt given Kremlin; do we need Slavery right away, or should we plan on a trip to Serfdom first to start laying Workshops?

No Serfdorm.
Rushing Kremlin and not slaving asap is not wise imho. We need to use it as immediate advantage, and farms we built come handy. But there are 2 major options how to use whipping bonus:
1) build army really quick and make a visit to one of our neighbors and steal land from them. This one I lean to, because I dont see how DZ for example can defend against 10 cavs, 10-15 rifles an 4-6 siege we can bring to them in something like 10 turns
2) build settlers and expand densly around or in next to one of our neighbours to consume him later

The plan for the closest future is to use farms mostly and to just start adding workshops to production cycles.

I was thinking Serfdom for 5t to give the Draft anger a chance to start wearing off since we might be shifting to less-Happy civics, but if we're not doing that then the only risk is over-draining population with both Nationhood and Slavery.

The only problem that I can see with 1 is that while we're running over Donovan and grabbing his sparsely settled land, everyone else will be building an economy and we'll end up eaten at a later date by a higher teched foe. My inclination is towards a smaller campaign against Donovan with additional Settler-spam into our pocket and the top of his. I don't think we should put off setting "good" borders with scooter and BGN for too long; similarly we want to grab a buffer to the East to protect the capital from East Indiaman boating.

I do think that we need to grab Tartar, but whether we push on to his core now or later I'm not sure about. He & CH are probably the weakest team in the field though, so maybe we don't want to leave it too late and let someone else have a go first.

Oh, if we're going full (or even part) Military, shouldn't we be looking at Theocracy instead of OrgRel?

I assume UniSuff since we're moving out of Merc and devaluing Rep, and then OrgRel in for Pacifism for the same reason? And Bureau for a round until the Draft anger wears off?

US is nice indeed, since it works well with Kremlin but the bonus is less that for slavery, but it is still important. We need to manage our happiness though, because rep gives +3 and nationhood gives +2 for barracks and it is significant. Imho, there is no need in bureau for the next 10 turns. We can consider making cottaged cap with Oxford, but right now we have not much to increase by Bureau.

I see the argument for both for sure. If we're staying in Rep and out of Bureau anyway, what if we stay in Pacifism for another civics cycle and use Goats to finish off that GSci? Rabbits doesn't desperately need religion, and this way we are also supporting our research effort? If we went this way I'd still suggest we tried the Physics-Biology bulbing, but otherwise what are your thoughts on Tech?

Or does it really matter what tech we choose if we've not got any Merc/Rep specialists and are probably saving money in the short-term?

[OT4E]

I was thinking Serfdom for 5t to give the Draft anger a chance to start wearing off since we might be shifting to less-Happy civics, but if we're not doing that then the only risk is over-draining population with both Nationhood and Slavery.

Draft and slavery unhappiness wears off in the separate streams, that's why I am for using both. We will go down in pop aiming on 6-8 size cities and will not have problems with happy before we decide to grow to 10 and above

The only problem that I can see with 1 is that while we're running over Donovan and grabbing his sparsely settled land, everyone else will be building an economy and we'll end up eaten at a later date by a higher teched foe. My inclination is towards a smaller campaign against Donovan with additional Settler-spam into our pocket and the top of his. I don't think we should put off setting "good" borders with scooter and BGN for too long; similarly we want to grab a buffer to the East to protect the capital from East Indiaman boating.

I do think that we need to grab Tartar, but whether we push on to his core now or later I'm not sure about. He & CH are probably the weakest team in the field though, so maybe we don't want to leave it too late and let someone else have a go first.

Yes, my opinion is the same, they will expand and will be difficult to conquare. If we capture Tartar and 1 city from core, then we will have good chances to grab at least half of their land in future. I see no problem that scooter or somebody else will use the moment and takes another part.
I will work on the detailed military plan this week-end and hopefully we will have time to weight it precisely and compare to alternatives.

Oh, if we're going full (or even part) Military, shouldn't we be looking at Theocracy instead of OrgRel?

No, we dont really need it now, for cavs we make stables, rifleman and catapults are good without extra promos.

I see the argument for both for sure. If we're staying in Rep and out of Bureau anyway, what if we stay in Pacifism for another civics cycle and use Goats to finish off that GSci? Rabbits doesn't desperately need religion, and this way we are also supporting our research effort? If we went this way I'd still suggest we tried the Physics-Biology bulbing, but otherwise what are your thoughts on Tech?

Or does it really matter what tech we choose if we've not got any Merc/Rep specialists and are probably saving money in the short-term?

Pacifism will bring us down in maintance if we continue growing power. I think we need to take a pause and give our cities rest from specialists. I have an idea to grow cap for the soonest future, it still supposes some drafts and whips but we focus on feeding it rather than using mines or specialists. Then we make some new cities, rise them to comparable size and attach significant number of workshops. Then we run GA with our GreatSpy and adopt Caste to finish our GS and gain extra +1 from workshops since we wont be willing to slave during GA.

[OT4E]

Except us, of course ... thus adding to your reputation!

When they stop inviting me in games, I will ask you to smuggle me in.

Btw, DZ asked for pause. I can join to put it and make some screens.

[OT4E]

Ok everything is perfect: Communism and Kremlin are both ours, BoldyGetsNothing was close, but I believe we sneaked our shot well by getting 2 GAs at one turn. I was worrying about 1.5% chance of getting GE in Chickens till last moment. The bad news is that Chicken starved too, probably it happened because I was too greedy and didnt hurry theatre for 1 turn.

As I said nobody is at war except us:

Btw REM is not close to pindicator.

Here are screens of DZ's land:



He used his first GS for academy and also has university in cap.
You can see that REM settled towards him aggressively, and not just to them. REM has the most city count so far and is playing out his imp trait fully.

Here is the land between us and Scooter:

Not much to fight for. I doubt the will be willing to plant closer than "barbarian city spot".

Here is the land between us and Gaspar/Noble and their other side.


They planted a city next to the REM's and they have very tight border. Therefore we can consider settling towards them aggressive also.

And BGN:

It would be nice to take forest hill, but we can live without it.

Demographs:

195k power means no units built so far... Who can it be?

[Dreylin]

FYI I'm away with the wife from the weekend, which means no kids and extra booze, so my sober "play the turns" periods may be unreliable.

We have a couple of turns to discuss revolts before they become available and agree on the next few turns, so you probably need to play the next turn....

[OT4E]

FYI I'm away with the wife from the weekend, which means no kids and extra booze, so my sober "play the turns" periods may be unreliable.

We have a couple of turns to discuss revolts before they become available and agree on the next few turns, so you probably need to play the next turn....

It is arguable who is the worst enemy of bright mind, girls, kids or whiskey.