RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[regoarrarr]

Where does this leave shady and dsp? Are they to be left behind technologically and then eliminated?

You don't say it explicitly but I guess that's the idea?

Seems like a much bigger deal IMHO than who gets the SoL.

Yeah that was a given throughout the whole chat. It was, "let's figure out all this other stuff so we can kill shady and dsp"

[regoarrarr]

Email from shady

I understand your desire to grab a few cities to create a nicer border for yourself and appreciate your honesty on the matter. Clearly the game made us natural geographic enemies but in games such as this, you play the players not the geography. We have found ways to work together and we can continue to do so if we so choose.

What is no doubt going through your head is whether using what is clearly a window of opportunity to grab the aforementioned border expansion is worth making a permanent enemy of me and essentially eliminating one option of you being in the 2 rather than the 1 in 'The Next Phase' (assuming you agree with my evaluation of the future in that regards.)

Clearly my position on The Courthouse is a tactical weakness but it is hopefully obvious that if I ended up at war with both you and Elkad/Lins then holding my position at The Courthouse is a much lower of priority than defending near The Castle and attacking Green Township. I would hate to be in that situation but if provoked, tough decisions need to be made.

I think that if I were a diplomatic wizard like Rego and could manipulate the world to my liking, my preference right now would be for me, you, Daniel and Sunrise to team up and invade not just Elkad but Lins and Broker (and maybe Munro as well). And I mean immediately because now is a window of opportunity against them where they are entering a peaceful development phase for their new acquisitions.)

I don't know if you have considered that or other options. I can see four:
1. Immediate offensive alliance against the Broker/Lins faction
2. Assisting me against Elkad
3. Not invading me but hampering my Elkad assault by mentaining a tense border
4. Opportunistic attack.

You spoke of some sort of permanent Non-Aggression Pact between us. Clearly I don't like the idea on principle but I wouldn't rule it out altogether. But that is something you should probably talk to Daniel about. If you guys want to agree to team up on the rest and agree to a peaceful space race race for the win, I wouldn't get in the way. I might even give the space race a go myself. Who knows, I might have an economy by then. And even if it didn't come to that, perhaps you are putting too much emphasis on geography again. Even if I had 50 Mechs marching towards Green Township, what's to stop you having 50 of them on defence. After all, where else is 'The Attack' going to come from? You know where to defend and how to defend. Would you not back yourself in that situation, on defence, with General Sunrise on your side?

I actually can't wait to read your thoughts on this in your thread when the game is over. But I guess I'll see your decision soon enough.

[regoarrarr]

Some thoughts from sunrise on that email

(11:22:59 AM) sunrise089: I continue to note the contrast between his tone and the Lin+Broker tone
(11:23:31 AM) sunrise089: but it's too bad - i still can't see that outweighing at least my dreylin relationships
(11:23:39 AM) sunrise089: he gifted me a city after all

[regoarrarr]

Had a painful conversation with Broker this morning, finally asking if I was planning on building Cristo Redentor, which he has been planning on for quite some time

In the end, I told him I was not. It was painful though. My main point was just separating the fact that there shouldn't be "strings" attached to the tech trades themselves, from the fact that, as he pointed out, he and I have been talking about this for quite some time.

I suggested that we agree for him not to build SoL in exchange but he wouldn't have any of that. I danced aroudn that awhile but he would not commit to not building SoL, while all the while seeming to want to give off the impression that he wasn't building it.

Due to C&D work (and I have to assume that he's doing the same for me?), I know he had 198 hammers in his capital of Customs last turn, and 380 this turn. So that's 182hpt, and with 380 hammers already invested, there's only so much it can be, ya know?

I believe he already has built Oxford. Could be Ironworks, or Broadway, but check this out.

I investigated his city tiles, and concluded that at size 17, he is likely making pretty close to 55 base hammers. I have to check what civics he is in to be sure, but he pretty much has to be building something with a 100% multiplier. 59 * 3.1 = 182, so maybe he has 59 hammers, and is in State Property (10%), not bureaucracy or OR, with forge/factory/coal (100%) and a resource multiplier (100%).

So that eliminates Ironworks or Broadway and honestly just about everything.

So....

Green Twp is currently making 65 base hammers * 3.35 multiplier (I'm in OR), which is 217hpt. Where that leaves us is that we will both finish on T216. Well, he'll have 1472 hammers on T216, but I'm assuming he'll figure out where to get those last 28 hammers. Thanks Dreylin for the head start

3 tricks I have up my sleeve.

1) I revolted to Caste System on T209 (last turn), so I can revolt again on T214. I can revolt to Universal Suffrage, but I have to cash-rush it on T214, when I'll have 1085 hammers invested, so 415 hammers left * 9 gph (I WB tested it last night) is 3735 gold. Probably not going to happen.

2) I can also revolt to Slavery. I need to test this out in WB, but with my multipliers, and the half cost wonder penalty, each pop should be 50 hammers. Again, I need to do this on T214, so 415 hammers will require 9 pop, which I have (Green is size 21). That's a big penalty for sure.

3) I just popped a Great Artist and can kick off a Golden Age. Now, I would prefer to save it for the end-game (ideally, I kick off 3 golden ages back to back to back with 6 GPs for 24 GA turns), but it's an option. That gains me 14 base hammers, so 79 total or 264hpt. If I kick it off this turn, that would gain me one turn. I can kick it off NEXT turn, but would have to make up 10 hammers somewhere (definitely feasible)

Otherwise it's likely to be a tie. And of course, he has the same options available to him (he'd have to only whip for 8 pop on T214, and his city is Size 17).

[regoarrarr]

So going along with the whole "do I kick off a GA" question, the other day I started trying to think of how many GPs I'd get between now and the next 70 turns. The prime generator is going to be Forest Park, my National Park / Epic city.

So, going from T209, when I popped my 300GPP person (Artist), I was making 40GPP in Forest Park. Eventually it will get to 14 forest preserves, which is 84GPP (not counting my SoL chicken before it hatches). Since that will be gradual over the next turn, I estimated 60GPP/turn for the duration, or 4200 GPP total.

I estimated that I will pop the 500GP (so the one after next) out of Green Twp, which has like 270GPP and is making about 12/turn.

So in the next 70 turns, I will get 400, 600, 700, 800, 900 and 1000 out of Forest Park (4400 total), so 7 more GPs in addition to the one I already have, or 8 total. If I can squeeze one more out and get the Engineer at Fusion, that would be 10, or 4 golden ages. More likely I think is that I will get 3 golden ages and have 2 folks left over to do whatever (engineer rush projects, merchant found sid's, etc)

[regoarrarr]

The sunrise thread updating service strikes again!

This is a proposal for a NAP between sunrise and broker

Permanent NAP between two states, no ROP, or Unit support with third parties at war or building towards war. passive espionage only.

Spain has the option to opt out of agreement with 10 turn notice.

Calculation for Spain's gold exchanges:

*If India and Sumeria war: 1/3 gold to Sumeria, up to 2/3 to India

*If India and HRE war: (Total gold sent to India - cost to fully-fund India's research) * 1/3 to HRE

*If India and HRE and Sumeria war: 1/3 to Sumeria, (Total gold sent to India - cost to fully-fund India's research) * 1/3 to HRE

This is in exchange for Sunrise not going after Cristo Redentor

[zakalwe]

I always had trouble following the geography in this game. Could you show us who is who on the minimap? What territory do you hope to gain before going for space?

[regoarrarr]

Here's the globe shot from a few turns ago



As for what territory I'd like to acquire - maybe just firm up my border by taking out shadyforce (light blue). I really don't need the cities - just more of a secure border

[regoarrarr]

3 tricks I have up my sleeve.

1) I revolted to Caste System on T209 (last turn), so I can revolt again on T214. I can revolt to Universal Suffrage, but I have to cash-rush it on T214, when I'll have 1085 hammers invested, so 415 hammers left * 9 gph (I WB tested it last night) is 3735 gold. Probably not going to happen.

2) I can also revolt to Slavery. I need to test this out in WB, but with my multipliers, and the half cost wonder penalty, each pop should be 50 hammers. Again, I need to do this on T214, so 415 hammers will require 9 pop, which I have (Green is size 21). That's a big penalty for sure.

3) I just popped a Great Artist and can kick off a Golden Age. Now, I would prefer to save it for the end-game (ideally, I kick off 3 golden ages back to back to back with 6 GPs for 24 GA turns), but it's an option. That gains me 14 base hammers, so 79 total or 264hpt. If I kick it off this turn, that would gain me one turn. I can kick it off NEXT turn, but would have to make up 10 hammers somewhere (definitely feasible)

Otherwise it's likely to be a tie. And of course, he has the same options available to him (he'd have to only whip for 8 pop on T214, and his city is Size 17).

And you guys thought I only had 3 tricks up my sleeve??!?

This coming from the man who came up with no fewer than 8 different plans to build the Hanging Gardens in another game in a galaxy far far away?!?

So while I was noodling tonight, and pondering how insane Krill is, I came up with Trick #4, which I soon realized was way better than any of the other tricks, so I implemented it

Operation Terraform

I had just enough (8 ) workers in the area to
a) workshop over my dyes plantation, trading 4 commerce for 4 hammers
b) workshop over my farm, trading 2 food for 4 hammers

Next turn I will
c) workshop over my other dyes plantation, again trading 4 commerce for 4 hammers
d) road my 3rd dyes (at Loveland), so I don't lose the happiness from dyes.

Now, this does have some negative side effects:
a) I dropped 6 beakers and will likely drop a few more next turn
b) Green is now starving 1fpt, but it has plenty in the box
c) I have disrupted the irrigation chain to my Globe city, so I'll lose a turn on an infantry.

But all that should be more than made up for in getting the Statue a turn earlier without having to burn a golden age. And in fact, I was realizing that I might be able to squeeze out 10 GPs, which would allow me to kick off 4 golden ages at the end of the game. The 2 things I didn't realize before were 1: Sunrise offered to give me a GP and 2: During a golden age, GPPs are increased.

[regoarrarr]

So to compare tactically

Broker's capital city of Customs has 380 shields towards something, up from 198 on T209: (This can be calculated using the espionage screen and the various prices for different missions)

So here's where we stand

209 198
210 380
211 562
212 744
213 926
214 1108
215 1290
216 1472

Now he has not confirmed that he is going for the Statue but per my earlier postings, I don't see what else it can be. Also, I checked Munro's cities (he just built the Pentagon!!), but nothing has more than 334 hammers currently. Also as you can see Broker is 28 hammers short on T216 but I am assuming that he will find those somewhere - it's only like 10 base hammers, so that's just starving for a turn or two.

Due to my not getting Democracy until a turn later, I had nothing in the box on T209, but T210 (this turn) I have 217 hammers (that's 65 base hammers)

So now this turn with my 2 workshops (in Caste), and hiring a Prophet specialist, I am up to 74 base hammers, which is 247 hpt, and next turn with my other workshop, I will be at 78 or 261hpt

209 0
210 217
211 464
212 725
213 986
214 1247
215 1508

I think that's going to be tough to beat. Hopefully I won't have to eat my words