April 21st, 2016, 17:19
(This post was last modified: April 21st, 2016, 17:23 by Dantski.)
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Oh god why?
Ancient of Lore can only choose to draw a single card now. Obviously a 7 mana 5/5 that draws a single card isn't good enough especially compared to Azure Drake.
Force of Nature is now 5 mana and summons the same 3 2/2's. However they don't have charge and they don't die at the end of the turn. It seems like a weaker Silver Hand Knight which doesn't see any constructed play but it might be average in arena.
Keeper of the Grove has been reduced to a 2/2 body. This card is pretty trash now (almost as bad as Ironforge Rifleman) and if you want to run silence you'll just play Spellbreaker.
Ironbeak Owl now costs 3 mana, I didn't think it needed to be changed TBH. They could at least have increased its health to 2. Its now a really bad card unless you badly need a silence and don't want to pay 4 mana for a decent one.
BGH costs 5 mana, I think this is a reasonable change. This card will almost certainly still be played in constructed in the future. Its considerably worse than it was but it won't inflict as huge a tempo swing as it did previously.
Hunters Mark now costs 1 mana, like Owl I don't think this needed a change but its still better than Repentance for Paladin.
Blade Flurry now costs 4 mana, that's a pretty big nerf and more than enough for a class that's one of the weakest in constructed. But wait there's more! It also only damages enemy minions now so Rogue burst damage has been severely dented on top of their ability to board clear. This card is pretty dead now and definitely got the Starving Buzzard/Warsong Commander treatment.
Knife Juggler got reduced to 2 attack, this seemed reasonable.
Leper Gnome got its attack halved to just 1 now. It can no longer trade into 2 drops and its another blow to face hunter and super aggro decks in general.
Arcane Golem is now a 4/4 without charge. Yeah no-ones playing that.
Molten Giant costs 25 mana. So you need to be at 15 health to play this at all. I think this means you replace it in Handlock with something else since C'thun decks might just kill you if you drop below 12-13 HP on turn 10.
Master of Disguise only gives stealth until next turn. I'm not sure how necessary this was. Yes giving something permanent stealth is a strong effect but that hasn't been good enough yet to make this card even a consideration in constructed. I guess they think one of the new cards they're printing would be OP if it could be stealthed forever.
And that's it... for now anyway. I find it hard to believe they aren't making changes to Paladin as well considering how good that class is ATM.
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Paladin is losing its overpowered early game cards in Standard, didn't receive any new OP cards, and should be a lot less annoying going forward. Shaman will probably take over its role as the annoying brainless class with OP cards 
Blade flurry is just... how is rogue supposed to deal with aggro now?
FINALLY boom rotates out and they can nerf BGH, this one was a long time coming.
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(April 22nd, 2016, 06:27)uberfish Wrote: Blade flurry is just... how is rogue supposed to deal with aggro now?
I guess they assume that fast or face decks will be weaker and can be dealt with by Skulkers and Fan. Either that or they're going to give Rogue's another removal card. Its not like Betrayal will be filling the void.
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I like most of those changes. Arcane Golem got nerfed too hard though. And with Blade Flurry it'd be enough if it didn't hit face, no need to raise the mana cost too.
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It seems like they're pushing deathrattle rogue as a thing; I feel like the idea is that rogue is supposed to be the new Zoo, and Zoo maintained board control with value trades and single-target rather than AOE.
Sure, druid got hit hard with the Nerf-rolled-up-newspaper, but I'm incredibly excited about Fandral Staghelm coupled with druid spells. Wrath is 2 mana 4-damage draw 1! Raven Idol is discover a spell and a minion! Starfall is a giant middle finger! And Fandral's mana cost means you can reasonably drop him and a powered-up spell in the same turn. Sure, there's the Fandral->Innervate->10/10 taunt Ancient of War dream, but if I'm excited about pairing Fandral with any creature, it's Druid of the Flame. The nice thing is that these cards are mostly good on their own; they just get upgraded to "stupid" when paired with Fandral.
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I'm really happy with the nerfs. I think they did a great job. Only two things I'm a bit concerned about are freeze mage being undernerfed and rogue being overnerfed.
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The main thing about the nerfs is that it means they have room to print cards in the new set that can take the place of those old cards--that's a consequence of keeping the old cards in Classic forever (which still feels like a bad decision--now Wild doesn't get things like Force of Nature/Savage Roar). It also opens design space--Silence nerfs mean cards can have interesting text without requiring Battlecry, "at end of turn" or Charge while being decent, while the Master of Disguise means that new cards don't have to be balanced around possibly being Stealthed forever. Granted I haven't touched Hearthstone in months, but Standard/Whispers of the Old Gods will get me to try it again at least.
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(April 22nd, 2016, 12:57)picklepikkl Wrote: It seems like they're pushing deathrattle rogue as a thing; I feel like the idea is that rogue is supposed to be the new Zoo, and Zoo maintained board control with value trades and single-target rather than AOE.
Sure, druid got hit hard with the Nerf-rolled-up-newspaper, but I'm incredibly excited about Fandral Staghelm coupled with druid spells. Wrath is 2 mana 4-damage draw 1! Raven Idol is discover a spell and a minion! Starfall is a giant middle finger! And Fandral's mana cost means you can reasonably drop him and a powered-up spell in the same turn. Sure, there's the Fandral->Innervate->10/10 taunt Ancient of War dream, but if I'm excited about pairing Fandral with any creature, it's Druid of the Flame. The nice thing is that these cards are mostly good on their own; they just get upgraded to "stupid" when paired with Fandral.
I was just starting to play Hearthstone for the first time since Naxx when they go and change everything. I've doubled down on the druid by dusting the ancients of lore and force of nature and putting them into Fandral. Of course I don't have raven idol or druid of the flame and probably never will (the gold cost of expansions pretty much drove me to quit the game in the first place and I wouldn't pay for cards on principle). But at worst, Fandral is a 3/5 soft taunt for 4 mana. I'm experimenting with token druid, and Fandral is basically like a more dangerous violet teacher. At worst a reasonable 4 drop and at best something crazy happens that probably wins you the game. If people start running anti-zoo decks, it may kill my token druid but either way this should be a good value card.
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(April 22nd, 2016, 16:46)Cheater Hater Wrote: The main thing about the nerfs is that it means they have room to print cards in the new set that can take the place of those old cards--that's a consequence of keeping the old cards in Classic forever (which still feels like a bad decision--now Wild doesn't get things like Force of Nature/Savage Roar). It also opens design space--Silence nerfs mean cards can have interesting text without requiring Battlecry, "at end of turn" or Charge while being decent, while the Master of Disguise means that new cards don't have to be balanced around possibly being Stealthed forever. Granted I haven't touched Hearthstone in months, but Standard/Whispers of the Old Gods will get me to try it again at least.
Some changes are good and some are ridiculous. They took a very popular aggro card in knife juggler and just barely changed it. People will still play it but it becomes more of a situational card. That's what they should do for the vast majority of nerfs. But in cases like blade flurry and ancient of lore they had all of the subtlety of a sledge hammer. OK those cards were a bit too much, but the reason everyone played those cards is because they fill needs those classes have trouble addressing. These cards are clearly not at the proper cost for what they do now and yet it will be hard for rogue and druid players to find efficient alternatives.
In the meantime we have a classic card which is 5/4 taunt for 5 mana while there is a newer common neutral minion which is 5/4 taunt for 4 mana?! And Dr. Boom is basically pay to win at 7 mana although it is now relegated to Wild mode.
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(May 2nd, 2016, 05:30)Nystul Wrote: (April 22nd, 2016, 16:46)Cheater Hater Wrote: The main thing about the nerfs is that it means they have room to print cards in the new set that can take the place of those old cards--that's a consequence of keeping the old cards in Classic forever (which still feels like a bad decision--now Wild doesn't get things like Force of Nature/Savage Roar). It also opens design space--Silence nerfs mean cards can have interesting text without requiring Battlecry, "at end of turn" or Charge while being decent, while the Master of Disguise means that new cards don't have to be balanced around possibly being Stealthed forever. Granted I haven't touched Hearthstone in months, but Standard/Whispers of the Old Gods will get me to try it again at least.
Some changes are good and some are ridiculous. They took a very popular aggro card in knife juggler and just barely changed it. People will still play it but it becomes more of a situational card. That's what they should do for the vast majority of nerfs. But in cases like blade flurry and ancient of lore they had all of the subtlety of a sledge hammer. OK those cards were a bit too much, but the reason everyone played those cards is because they fill needs those classes have trouble addressing. These cards are clearly not at the proper cost for what they do now and yet it will be hard for rogue and druid players to find efficient alternatives.
In the meantime we have a classic card which is 5/4 taunt for 5 mana while there is a newer common neutral minion which is 5/4 taunt for 4 mana?! And Dr. Boom is basically pay to win at 7 mana although it is now relegated to Wild mode. Again, what they probably should have done was make a new version of the classic set, put some rotating cards in it, then retire a bunch of old classic cards to Wild. But Blizzard instead wants the classic set to be legal in Standard forever for some reason, so this is what happens. Expect every card that sees meaningful play in the Basic/Classic sets to be either nerfed or obsoleted via power creep at some point--it's how Blizzard continues to sell new cards.
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