RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Zara of the Ottomans

[WarriorKnight]

Good work on everything so far WK, Message to Nice Shot looks good I'd send that off, kudos to Ad hoc for the lake comment. I missed that also and it's good friendly advise for them.

Message Sent.

The other thing worth dicussing is the workers around Nemedia, they're pretty set up for the next 4/5 turns but then they're essentially free until we need them for settler chops in Aquilonia. They could either be mining or farming, and I'm not sold either way, I've been trying to find a way to get a cottage or two up on a riverside grass tile, but having trouble getting good timing on it.

Well, mining is slightly better in the short term, because we will hit the happy cap before we get a library in there. Farms are better long term (although we should only build enough to work all the non plain tiles) but that can wait since we can build them at a later date.

Cottages would surely help our (soon to be) sad tech rate so if possible build them.

One thing, is the chariot for worker deal acceptance of the settlement arrangement? Either way I think it's a deal worth taking, we should have no problems getting another couple of chariots by turn 70 I think (one for home defence, one for them). One small point, I think chariots are 30H, but it's still a good deal nevertheless.

actually upon re-reading it seems that it is part of the settler plan . Maybe it was just their way of evening the border agreement between us, but either way we should probably go with it.

The 7/8 team tech deal has me a little concerned, obviously we need to be a part of it, but I don't think there are that many techs worth researching simultaneously... I wonder if they're looking to piggyback off people for the moment then cut the dead wood later (probably one by one if they can swing it)? For the moment it's in our best interest to join, but we should be wary about this, or else find ourselves hung out to dry. OTOH perhaps later we'll just have 4 teching and 4 feeding gold, so maybe I'm worried about nothing... The other point is this deal makes tech haggling pointless for the moment, since everyone is getting all the techs anyway?

I was wondering about this too. Thinking about the future, I doubt that we would all go our separate ways after this is finished. Surely we will keep exchanging techs between us anyway. I don't really know how this is going to turn out.

It looks like we will be just sharing techs around which is good for us (because we will hopefully go for math which is cheapest apart from IW and our economy won't be doing well for a while). They weren't very clear so hopefully when we make contact with some of the other teams we can get a clearer picture.

[Sockboy]

I've been trying to update the sandbox to take into account toroidal city maintenance, but been having difficulties getting it all sorted out. No matter what I try I can't get the distance from capital maintenance right . My last attempt still under estimated distance from capital maintenance (1.35g v 2.37g). I couldn't find the formula for city distance from capital maintenance costs over at CFC, although I'm sure I've seen it there before somewhere. Is there another factor I'm missing here?

The upshot of this is that I can't get a fixed idea of when techs will come in, since we don't know exactly what commerce we've got, looks like we'll have to play it a bit by ear. I think Pottery will be delayed only one turn, but could be two. Depends a bit on which tiles we work. We should try to time the whip of Nemedia to match Pottery completing to get overflow from Chariot into Granary.

If I'm not missing anything, the best conclusion to draw is that the map is a non-standard size, (*smaller* than a standard huge map? As distance of Nemedia from Aquilonia is a larger percentage of maximum distance?) If so, given the fact we predicted an extra 50% more land than a typical huge map and smaller overall map size there's likely no sizable ocean on this map? (Which we've already been assuming, but more confimation perhaps?)

[WarriorKnight]

New message from DIM:

Quick question my friends,

We were wondering if you've had an answer from Carthage yet?

We will probably be heading their way soon with our scouting warrior. Do you have an idea where they're located? I would think they are S SE from your capital?

Anyway, if you could give them the heads up, maybe they could send out a scouting warrior themselves, so we can move in another direction once we've met team Nice Shot.

Highest regards,

Ilios for DIM

Well we better not mess this one up. Looks like we have a meeting to co-ordinate.

Honorable Triumvirate of DIM

We are not aware of Carthage's exact location but they are probably 8-12 tiles south of us. Unfortunately there is a long lake that stretches N-S to the South of Nemedia that our borders will soon cut off. You will have to go the southern route around this lake to meet them.

Carthage has also expressed an opinion of meeting you and has informed us that they will be sending a scouting unit in about 10 turns. We replied that they will also have to go south around the lake so maybe the two of you could meet there?

To make this meeting as pain-free as possible, could you give us the location of your scout in relation to our capital? We will keep you informed on their scout's position in return should you have not found them when they send their scout.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

We could merge this with the other message for them.

Also a follow up to Carthage:

Greetings Carthage

It seems that an hour after we post our reply, DIM manages to send us a response. Ah well, that's life.

They have said that they are sending a scouting unit in your direction with the intent of meeting you soon. We have replied that they, like you, will have to go South around the lake to our SE. Maybe the two of you could meet around there?

To make this meeting as pain-free as possible, could you give us the location of your scout when you send it out in relation to the tile we met (where Karen ended turn when we made contact)? We will keep you informed on their scout's position in return.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Basically the same thing to Carthage, although I reworked a few things because DIM will have a scout there first.

[WarriorKnight]

If I'm not missing anything, the best conclusion to draw is that the map is a non-standard size, (*smaller* than a standard huge map? As distance of Nemedia from Aquilonia is a larger percentage of maximum distance?) If so, given the fact we predicted an extra 50% more land than a typical huge map and smaller overall map size there's likely no sizable ocean on this map? (Which we've already been assuming, but more confimation perhaps?)

Maybe we are on a smaller than average map? For example, Terra is one of the bigger if not biggest map independent of the size (because everyone has to get a reasonable space on the old world and then the same size landmass in the new world). I don't know much about the different maps though.

I doubt there is any sizable ocean on this map. The only reason I could believe that there is a sizable ocean is to balance the 17 civs on the map and make sure that one civ doesn't get twice as much land to expand into (or something like that).

I am 99% sure this is a huge map due to the number of civs involved. Don't worry too much about what the map is right now, we have barely explored it yet. When we get our chariots out we can start making more accurate guesses.

[ad hoc]

if we're struggling for worker actions that are worthwhile pre emptive roading in Aquilonia's BFC will be more than useful, speeding up chops and also speeding up movement of settlers/chariots.... a turn saved is a turn gained

[WarriorKnight]

if we're struggling for worker actions that are worthwhile pre emptive roading in Aquilonia's BFC will be more than useful, speeding up chops and also speeding up movement of settlers/chariots.... a turn saved is a turn gained

Good point. I still think that we should mine at least 1 hill in Nemedia but this is still a good idea.

In other news, follow-up to Carthage is sent and the messages to DIM are merged and sent.

Honorable Triumvirate of DIM

We are not aware of Carthage's exact location but they are probably 8-12 tiles south of us. Unfortunately there is a long lake that stretches N-S to the South of Nemedia that our borders will soon cut off. You will have to go the southern route around this lake to meet them.

Carthage has also expressed an opinion of meeting you and has informed us that they will be sending a scouting unit in about 10 turns. We replied that they will also have to go south around the lake so maybe the two of you could meet there?

To make this meeting as pain-free as possible, could you give us the location of your scout in relation to our capital? We will keep you informed on their scout's position in return should you have not found them when they send their scout.

In other news, we are willing to commit to the tech alliance being formed. We will have contact with most of the other civs that are included soon.

Regarding your settlement agreement, you mentioned that you would like to trade a worker for a chariot. We would just like to clarify if this is part of the settlement agreement or not, but we are willing to agree to the deal either way.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

[WarriorKnight]

Turn 41:

We officially have trade routes. Horses pastured and roaded next turn.

Nothing else, except it looks like we will be 1 gold short of finishing pottery at 100%, hopefully having the horses pastured will make it so we don't have to go 90% for a turn.

[Sockboy]

Having to go 90% for a turn wouldn't be the end of the world, provided it gets us Pottery on the correct turn.

I will look at roading tiles, particularly to the SW of Aquilonia where we're sending our next settlers. But I think there's time still for a mine(or two?) for Nemedia.

Merged message looks good as always WK I think getting them to hook up south of the lake is probably the best we can do, especially given we haven't explored that region ourselves yet Maybe we can ask for screenshots from both sides when they're in the region to ensure they meet?

One last thought, if it does look like Carthage is to be in on this tech deal, I'd prefer if we tell them rather than DIM (which they might do as soon as they meet!) otherwise it could look like we've been holding back on them, which we don't want.

[WarriorKnight]

Having to go 90% for a turn wouldn't be the end of the world, provided it gets us Pottery on the correct turn.

True. Don't know what I was so worried about there.

Maybe we can ask for screenshots from both sides when they're in the region to ensure they meet?

Well, we can tell when they meet via F4. Of course, we can try to get screenshots from them to learn a bit more about the area, but that's being sneaky.

One last thought, if it does look like Carthage is to be in on this tech deal, I'd prefer if we tell them rather than DIM (which they might do as soon as they meet!) otherwise it could look like we've been holding back on them, which we don't want.

I agree. It will be mentioned in the next message.

[WarriorKnight]

From DIM:

To the leaders of the glorious Ottomans,

Thank you for your message. I'm glad that we've reached an agreement that is acceptable for both sides, and I hope our relationship remains strong throughout the Ages. The worker/chariot deal was indeed meant for said agreement.

I've already informed India and Egypt of your willingness to join our alliance, and have told them you would be sending out emissaries soon.

Krill, leader of Egypt and current primus inter pares, is analyzing the optimal research path for each of the alliance members. While I'm pretty sure you are researching Pottery at the moment, I was wondering if it would be possible for you to confirm this, so I can relay with Krill and convince him of your preference to eventually head for Mathematics.

As for our scouting warrior, he will be leaving DIM soil next turn and is currently located a couple of tiles east from the Horses you saw on the screenshot we sent you. I gather that Nemedia is the city you founded on your preferred site. Tricky (our intrepid explorer), will be heading southeast for a couple of tiles, and then head due east to try and find the lake you mentioned.

You have our gratitude for your willingness to act as intermediate, which will certainly speed up our meeting with mighty Carthage.

Highest regards,

Ilios for DIM

Mostly good stuff here. It appears that we have reached our border agreement with them, they just want us to throw a chariot for worker instead of a worker outright (take note).

We are apparently confirmed into this alliance. Only problem is that it looks like Krill might be deciding tech paths for everyone, which I don't really like the idea of. It would be acceptable if we researched something to try to make the trades even though. Hopefully we don't have to research something that takes us of our path too much.

I think the last east was meant to be west.

Greetings DIM

We in the A4 are grateful we have reached an agreement on both sides about the border agreement. We hope that we may continue to work together closely.

We are indeed researching pottery ATM. Can we clarify with you what you meant with 'analyzing the optimal research path for each of the alliance members'. Does this mean that Krill is choosing the research path for everyone?

Also, if we do let Carthage into the tech group, can our team be the one to officially let them in? This is because otherwise they might think we have been purposely holding back on them, which would not be good for relations.

As intermediate, can you clarify something?

'Tricky (our intrepid explorer), will be heading southeast for a couple of tiles, and then head due east to try and find the lake you mentioned.'

The lake we mentioned is W of the horses (directly south of Nemedia). Is this a typo?

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4.