Advance Wars by Web Games

[Bobchillingworth]

Do you think that was a good change?

Yeah, mostly. It gave you a reason to preserve heavily-damaged elite units which you might otherwise determine weren't worth retreating to repair. It also punished stuff like Infantry / Mech spam, since you'd be feeding your opponent exp, and eventually might level their AA or whatever enough for them to start 1-hit killing your guys.

It was less of an RPG system than in what you'd find in, say, Civ IV, since the leveling didn't even unlock new abilities, just raw strength boosts. It certainly wasn't anything on the order of Fire Emblem; your units didn't have unique statistics or equipment, and you couldn't carry them from map-to-map (so they weren't that valuable). Ranged units should have had higher requirements though, it sort of became a win-more mechanic if you had well-positioned Artillery and/or Rockets.

I also forgot to mention that joining your CO to a unit automatically bumped it up to elite status, so that one CO whose (initially limited to herself) zone gave all her units a 50% strength boost actually gave her own unit something like 165% strength. It got pretty crazy if you loaded her on a seaplane or battleship.

Would it be too complex if you had COs that had 1) An overall effect 2) A CO Unit with a range of effect and 3) A CO power? Could players handle the extra interlocking pieces there without making the game too complex for what it is?

Probably, yeah. I think overall + CO Unit + power is fine, but having a zone in addition only complicates things. I'd find that preferable to all of the previous systems. I'd do it so the overall impacted unit strength for certain types within a no greater than 20% margin, the CO unit obtained a special power unique to the leader (perhaps a Sonja-esque CO unit always counter-attacks first), and the COP worked as they always have, but with none of the game-breaking nonsense seen in previous titles.

OTOH, the zone did have some gameplay advantages- among other things, it rewarded tactical positioning, and diverting resources to gank your opponent's CO unit was a new and viable strategy. Having it in conjunction with a day-to-day power is just confusing though.

I should also note that, while almost all of the DoR COs had powers, you often didn't want to use them, since deploying them reset your zone size to the lowest level. The main exceptions I can think of were Waylon, whose power gave his air units huge defense boosts which let you make major pushes without fearing counter-attacks (kind of like Kanbei), and Penny, who created weather conditions.

[Fenn]

WRT COs, what could work is if any given CO would have just two of:
-CO Unit with zone
-Overall day-to-day
-CO Power
...but not all three. You don't want individual COs to have too many moving parts, eg AW3 Sonja is 3-4 COs rolled into one.

City Roadway Arena looks too cramped and choky for my tastes; battles are going to revolve around Inf/Arty/Mech clusters, especially with the low funding per base. Don't like the contested silos either, and I don't see how the broken COs are any less broken than before. Grit would be more insane than normal if anything.

Defender 4vs1 looks interesting, but the defender has a significant advantage here; they can focus all of their attacks on a single opponent because they only have to worry about attacks from 2-tile wide fronts, and the attackers will not be able to build good attackers for a while.

Some map ideas:

Unknown Magic

http://puu.sh/oAcVv/a88d846725.png

A 4p game made for fog and random weather. I like the layout of this one, and the delayed airport capture.

Castle Gardens

http://puu.sh/oAdIm/be294667b4.png

Large-scale 4p FFA map that should allow for some interaction between players on opposite corners. It could be played on 1500 funds if you want to see more high-tech units.

[Bobchillingworth]

Regarding the maps-


City Roadway Arena looks fun, although I don't like the presence of the missiles (not the unit, but the tile feature). I don't see how they can do anything but detract from the map balance, and would advocate banning their use. Also the map looks really Koal-friendly.


Defender 4vs1 is one I'd actually like to try, but I strongly suspect there's no way the center player can realistically lose if they rush one of their four opponents. They don't have to worry about defending their base for a long time.


Unknown Magic is my favorite of the lot, although I wonder if the center will really see much competition. Some of those cities probably should have been airports instead.


Castle Gardens is my least favorite. Too few factories given the size, and far too many cities. Plus the map forces you to win by HQ capture, and then makes it difficult to actually manage it. Kindle would be nuts here.



I'm up for another FFA, but would much prefer to lurk (not burned out, I just want to see one unfold from an outside perspective).

[Cheater Hater]

AW:DoR/CO balancing stuff is interesting. The level up stuff obviously isn't on the level of Fire Emblem, but it leads to the main difference between the two franchises: I don't want to have to protect every unit with my life, and can generally lose a unit or two without completely destroying my chances (as opposed to Fire Emblem, where losing a unit means resetting). Sonja is an interesting example, as if you go back to her original form she was completely useless out of FOW (especially since the HP-hiding is completely negated by animations--honestly, as flavorful as that is, it isn't a good mechanic). That goes back to the AW1 form of balancing (where most of the "basic" COs are from), where it was even more extreme. Look at Max and his 150/100 directs: obviously part of that had to be slanting the Campaign in favor of the player, but they realized how powerful the indirect range changes were (heck, Grit had no day-to-day power increase, and his Infantry got hurt in addition to his directs). Intelligent Systems didn't want people to have people who suck in certain situations, so as the series went on COs got more generalist (of the new COs in AW:DS, only Grimm, Jugger, and Von Bolt have weaknesses, and even in AW2 COs like Sensei could easily work around their weaknesses).

Regarding the maps, as I don't know how interested I am in FFAs, I don't have much to say. I would be interested in the 4v1 (as the one), but the problem is that I know it won't be fun for at least one person--the defender has to start by running over someone (as they need a seaport to eliminate anyone), and the one can't really stop them. Javier also is the obvious choice, as you start with 2 towers and the indirect defense helps the initial rush.

[BRickAstley]

City Roadway Arena looks fun, although I don't like the presence of the missiles (not the unit, but the tile feature). I don't see how they can do anything but detract from the map balance, and would advocate banning their use. Also the map looks really Koal-friendly.

My favorite of the 4, we could just ban using the missile silos unofficially?

Defender 4vs1 is one I'd actually like to try, but I strongly suspect there's no way the center player can realistically lose if they rush one of their four opponents. They don't have to worry about defending their base for a long time.

Maybe give the center CO a harsher ban set to offset their natural advantage?

Unknown Magic is my favorite of the lot, although I wonder if the center will really see much competition. Some of those cities probably should have been airports instead.

My brain hurts looking at this map and actually parsing which terrain is good or not. I'd try it but it definitely is not my favorite.

Castle Gardens is my least favorite. Too few factories given the size, and far too many cities. Plus the map forces you to win by HQ capture, and then makes it difficult to actually manage it. Kindle would be nuts here.

Agree, do not want.

[BRickAstley]

WRT COs, what could work is if any given CO would have just two of:
-CO Unit with zone
-Overall day-to-day
-CO Power
...but not all three. You don't want individual COs to have too many moving parts, eg AW3 Sonja is 3-4 COs rolled into one.

Interesting, a pick 2 out of that bucket? Would allow for more flexibility balancing leaders and making their mechanics match their theme...

[BRickAstley]

Also an FYA for our 2v2 game: ipecac messaged me earlier saying:

sick
dont want to play turn until well
interface sucks

So we'll probably have a bit more of a hold there.

[Fenn]

If you need a fourth for the Roadways game, I'd fine with it if we houseruled the silos out.

Sorry to hear that Ipecac's sick. And, he is right that the interface sucks.

[sunrise089]

sick
dont want to play turn until well
interface sucks

mackoti???

[Cheater Hater]

You don't have to houserule out the missiles, just make a new version of the map without them (or more accurately with used missiles in place of them).