League of Legends General Discussion Thread

[Voldymort]

So... in a sad attempt to ressurect this as-dead-as-Michael-Jackson thread, i give you the history of my main for this season:
-move it from EUNE to NA to play with someone shortly
-play the preliminary games 5-5 silver 2
-play 3 games after that: 1 win and 2 losses
-mostly ignore it while i main Teemo on EUW (s4 currently from a 4-6 b1 start)
-move it back to EUNE 1 week ago because there's more opportunity to play with people
-play 1 game tonight where i virtually did almoast nothing after laning phase as a jungler because my team didn't need me like..at all...(56 farm as well/23 minutes. feel free to boo! I deserve it!)

Get Gold 5!





Hmmm... i wonder what's up with my MMR?

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Terror and I still play regularly on the NA server and have picked up some new folks to play with along the way. We might be the last of the old RB crew, along with Sunrise, Warlord, and PhoenixCull, that I ever still see on.

[v8mark]

Yep, quite a nice friendly group we have on NA. My IGN is 'Terror Incognita' if anyone wants to give it a go and play with us - all skill/experience levels welcome!

[Jowy]

Riot just confirmed that they will never make a solo queue. I quit a long time ago because as a support main, I was getting too much abuse by duos who demanded to get ADC and Support even if they were lower than me in pick order. Then they would troll in the game and report me, which did once lead to a mute since the system is automated and only the amount of reports matter. It is sad to see that since then, the game has only moved to the wrong direction. But at least I can go play Dota 2 or something if I feel like playing a MOBA, and not feel bad about leaving behind all my earned stuff in LoL since LoL won't ever be fixed.

[v8mark]

It strikes me as funny that whenever I see these posts about dynamic queue, they're nearly always from people who 'quit a long time ago' and are like "hey, I wasn't coming back to League anyway, but guess what Riot? I'm definitely not coming back now!! Haha you'll miss me won't you! I'm even going to whine on reddit about it!! Ha!"

Like, if you're moving on, move on. The whole arguments in favour of solo queue are built on fallacy after fallacy. It doesn't make it harder for you to climb, it doesn't make it 'inevitable' that you'll be trolled and banned by 4 premades. All of those things are at least partly contingent on you, and good players will climb regardless.

FWIW I adore the fact that I can play ranked with 3/4/5 people in platinum elo. It's so much fun.

[Jowy]

It strikes me as funny that whenever I see these posts about dynamic queue, they're nearly always from people who 'quit a long time ago' and are like "hey, I wasn't coming back to League anyway, but guess what Riot? I'm definitely not coming back now!! Haha you'll miss me won't you! I'm even going to whine on reddit about it!! Ha!"

Like, if you're moving on, move on. The whole arguments in favour of solo queue are built on fallacy after fallacy. It doesn't make it harder for you to climb, it doesn't make it 'inevitable' that you'll be trolled and banned by 4 premades. All of those things are at least partly contingent on you, and good players will climb regardless.

FWIW I adore the fact that I can play ranked with 3/4/5 people in platinum elo. It's so much fun.

I think it just shows that League is inherently a very fun game that is being held back by strange decisions by the devs and their inability to deal with toxicity. In this context I value the opinion of those who actually did quit the game more highly than those who didn't, because it shows that they actually do have a real problem with something and aren't just whining for the sake of it. I have never played a single game of the new "dynamic queue", but even in the solo+duo queue the premade problem was the biggest reason I had to quit the game. It is actually easier to deal with solo'ers who are toxic than duos, because group mentality makes duos be even more toxic than they'd be if they were alone. There's also the problem that many people like to play league competitively. Even if they aren't in the Challenger tier and playing for money, it can be a ton of fun to play seriously. The fact that there was never a real solo queue makes a huge dent at the competitiveness. There is a really simple solution to all of this, that is to create a solo queue and a dynamic queue, then everyone can play what they want. From what I've read, the reason that they haven't created a solo queue is because almost everyone in the game would play solo queue and the dynamic queue would be empty. But despite this being the case, the devs don't want to actually appeal to that huge majority of players, instead they make everyone play the mode that almost no-one wants to play, thinking that they know better than the players what the players want.

[v8mark]

I think it just shows that League is inherently a very fun game that is being held back by strange decisions by the devs and their inability to deal with toxicity. In this context I value the opinion of those who actually did quit the game more highly than those who didn't, because it shows that they actually do have a real problem with something and aren't just whining for the sake of it.

Or it means they're burned out on League and want to do other things. I go through phases of playing a lot of League and then dialling back on it for a while; the end of those intense periods is when I have the least fun, and it's usually because I'm starting to take the game too seriously and rage/troll people when things don't go my way.

I think this is a pretty natural part of playing video games. 2 weeks later, I want to play again, and I'm just having fun doing cool shit with Bard, or trying random champions I've never played before because I want to see how it feels to play the game from that perspective. At some point I might find another game that I find as compelling as League, and play that instead, but League is a really compelling game to me. The combination of specialisation, teamwork and macro-based decision making is just really really fun to me. Starcraft/Overwatch/CS:GO doesn't come close to pushing any of those buttons, and Dota 2 is just a clunkier, less optimised version of League.

There is a really simple solution all this, that is to create a solo queue and a dynamic queue, then everyone can play what they want. From what I've read, the reason that they haven't created a solo queue is because almost everyone in the game would play solo queue and the dynamic queue would be empty. But despite this being the case, the devs don't want to actually appeal to that huge majority of players, instead they make everyone play the mode that almost no-one wants to play, thinking that they know better than the players what the players want.

There are simple logistical problems with that though. What do you do about 4 stacks if the solo players go into solo queue? Also the smaller servers will have their problems of high queue times/uneven matches exacerbated. There's already an issue here with Diamond elo games which they're trying to fix, but which is also kind of acceptable because it's such a small proportion of the playerbase.

The 'competitive integrity' argument I think is overplayed, honestly. League is already a 5v5 game, and macro-based decision making is proportionally more important than individual mechanics than it is in other games. Having that be a bigger part of the main game mode makes total sense, because it's basically Riot's competitive advantage against other popular multiplayer games. And as I've said, the best players will always climb... Doublelift/Bjergsen/Aphro/Hai/other random pros are not 'stuck in D3 (or even D1) because of dynamic queue'. The best will climb, and if you're not climbing, it's because you're not the best.

In any case, apparently more people are playing Ranked since dynamic queue was launched, and people are happier playing Ranked than they were before (as measured by reports/honor etc). This certainly chimes with my experience. I hear lots of talk about Riot lying about these figures because individual players disagree with the findings, but it's so explicitly against Riot's best interests to launch a game mode that isn't popular, and I'm afraid I find this argument much more compelling than the anecdotes of random solo queue players that have already quit because of stuff like this. DQ is very popular. I've played about 4x as much Ranked since it's launched, because I can get a bunch of people together in a queue, have it mean something tangible, and then we carry Cull to platinum. (just kidding, love you bae <3)

[Jowy]

I think it just shows that League is inherently a very fun game that is being held back by strange decisions by the devs and their inability to deal with toxicity. In this context I value the opinion of those who actually did quit the game more highly than those who didn't, because it shows that they actually do have a real problem with something and aren't just whining for the sake of it.

Or it means they're burned out on League and want to do other things. I go through phases of playing a lot of League and then dialling back on it for a while; the end of those intense periods is when I have the least fun, and it's usually because I'm starting to take the game too seriously and rage/troll people when things don't go my way.

I think this is a pretty natural part of playing video games. 2 weeks later, I want to play again, and I'm just having fun doing cool shit with Bard, or trying random champions I've never played before because I want to see how it feels to play the game from that perspective. At some point I might find another game that I find as compelling as League, and play that instead, but League is a really compelling game to me. The combination of specialisation, teamwork and macro-based decision making is just really really fun to me. Starcraft/Overwatch/CS:GO doesn't come close to pushing any of those buttons, and Dota 2 is just a clunkier, less optimised version of League.

Burnout is a real thing, but usually you'd come back a few months later to play again. Burnout might actually lead to a lot of people quitting these days, because they see all these negative changes to the game and the threshold to get back into it increases.

There is a really simple solution all this, that is to create a solo queue and a dynamic queue, then everyone can play what they want. From what I've read, the reason that they haven't created a solo queue is because almost everyone in the game would play solo queue and the dynamic queue would be empty. But despite this being the case, the devs don't want to actually appeal to that huge majority of players, instead they make everyone play the mode that almost no-one wants to play, thinking that they know better than the players what the players want.

There are simple logistical problems with that though. What do you do about 4 stacks if the solo players go into solo queue? Also the smaller servers will have their problems of high queue times/uneven matches exacerbated. There's already an issue here with Diamond elo games which they're trying to fix, but which is also kind of acceptable because it's such a small proportion of the playerbase.

The 'competitive integrity' argument I think is overplayed, honestly. League is already a 5v5 game, and macro-based decision making is proportionally more important than individual mechanics than it is in other games. Having that be a bigger part of the main game mode makes total sense, because it's basically Riot's competitive advantage against other popular multiplayer games. And as I've said, the best players will always climb... Doublelift/Bjergsen/Aphro/Hai/other random pros are not 'stuck in D3 (or even D1) because of dynamic queue'. The best will climb, and if you're not climbing, it's because you're not the best.

In any case, apparently more people are playing Ranked since dynamic queue was launched, and people are happier playing Ranked than they were before (as measured by reports/honor etc). This certainly chimes with my experience. I hear lots of talk about Riot lying about these figures because individual players disagree with the findings, but it's so explicitly against Riot's best interests to launch a game mode that isn't popular, and I'm afraid I find this argument much more compelling than the anecdotes of random solo queue players that have already quit because of stuff like this. DQ is very popular. I've played about 4x as much Ranked since it's launched, because I can get a bunch of people together in a queue, have it mean something tangible, and then we carry Cull to platinum. (just kidding, love you bae <3)

I would imagine there'd always be more solo players than 4 stacks in dynamic queue, even with solo queue enabled. Anyway the problem with queue times in dynamic queue stem from there not being enough players who actually want to play that mode. If there's no demand for that mode, then perhaps it's not a very good idea for the devs to force everyone to play that mode. Instead they should let the players play the mode that the players want to play. This is like removing Summoner's Rift so people will have to go play Dominion. That's not how you should run your game.

I don't think "rising ranks" is the main problem. I think what people want is for the mode to feel FAIR. It's like.. say you have exams in school. You're answering questions alone, some other students form groups of up to 5 people to answer theirs. Sure you can still pass your exams if you study hard, but you probably don't feel that it's fair that some students grouped up and got better grades than they would have got individually.

[v8mark]

I don't think "rising ranks" is the main problem. I think what people want is for the mode to feel FAIR. It's like.. say you have exams in school. You're answering questions alone, some other students form groups of up to 5 people to answer theirs. Sure you can still pass your exams if you study hard, but you probably don't feel that it's fair that some students grouped up and got better grades than they would have got individually.

I think that's true, and I think that's the best argument in favour of solo queue. But I also think that it's a trade-off between that and allowing those people to play the game mode they want to and have fun with it. Riot have been very clear, and very internally consistent, that what they want is for more of a balance to be struck between competition and fun. Partly this is a toxicity argument, but toxicity is a symptom rather than a cause: if people are toxic it's because they aren't having fun. If there's this super-ragey solo queue game mode, where reports are at an all-time high and abuse is rife, they want to do something about it because that means people aren't having fun. It also reflects badly on the game as a whole - pretty much any discussion with someone who's barely played League starts with, "Oh yeah, fun game but man, the community is awful!"

If there's no demand for that mode, then perhaps it's not a very good idea for the devs to force everyone to play that mode.

But there is demand! More people are playing ranked than they did before, by a lot. Unless Riot are lying about these figures, but I don't think they are. Reddit doesn't like it, but Reddit is a small part of the playerbase that tends heavily towards the more competitive element.

[Jowy]

I don't think "rising ranks" is the main problem. I think what people want is for the mode to feel FAIR. It's like.. say you have exams in school. You're answering questions alone, some other students form groups of up to 5 people to answer theirs. Sure you can still pass your exams if you study hard, but you probably don't feel that it's fair that some students grouped up and got better grades than they would have got individually.

I think that's true, and I think that's the best argument in favour of solo queue. But I also think that it's a trade-off between that and allowing those people to play the game mode they want to and have fun with it. Riot have been very clear, and very internally consistent, that what they want is for more of a balance to be struck between competition and fun. Partly this is a toxicity argument, but toxicity is a symptom rather than a cause: if people are toxic it's because they aren't having fun. If there's this super-ragey solo queue game mode, where reports are at an all-time high and abuse is rife, they want to do something about it because that means people aren't having fun. It also reflects badly on the game as a whole - pretty much any discussion with someone who's barely played League starts with, "Oh yeah, fun game but man, the community is awful!"

If there's no demand for that mode, then perhaps it's not a very good idea for the devs to force everyone to play that mode.

But there is demand! More people are playing ranked than they did before, by a lot. Unless Riot are lying about these figures, but I don't think they are. Reddit doesn't like it, but Reddit is a small part of the playerbase that tends heavily towards the more competitive element.

I don't think people are being toxic because they aren't having fun. I don't have a PHD in psychology though, so I can only base it on what I've observed.
Personally I'd support a system where toxic players get a high chance of being matched with other toxic players. This way non-toxic players can enjoy the game, and Riot doesn't lose the revenue from the toxic players. That might help with the public image as well, as you wouldn't have to deal with assholes unless you're an asshole yourself.

There could be various reasons why people are playing ranked more these days. I would think that if they were to create a real solo queue in addition of a dynamic queue, the vast majority would pick solo queue, that's what I mean with demand. Obviously it is hard for anyone to show proof of this demand before Riot actually offers an option to play the game solo. Any reddit thread or strawpoll could just be a loud minority to either side.