Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore

Create an account  

 
Races, Units, Buildings

This might sound insane, but, Halberdiers, I don't anymore think there is a problem with their balance or them being non-standard... I think they're just boring. Would it be possible to replace them all with unique units? I guess they'd have to use the same art.

But hey? instead of my previous suggestion about, yes, keep them standardized, how about make them all much weirder?

I'm starting to feel like all my favorite races are the ones that don't really need or even have access to Halberdiers because they do something more zany. Maybe give Halberdiers a double racial bonus? It's the blandest zaniest idea I can think of that uses the current art.

Like +2 to hit for high elves, +4 defense for klackons is OP so maybe +3? maybe give nomad pikemen their bows back? Find a solution for Orcs because horde is just WAAAAAY to similar to their Halberdiers? (I'm not in game atm though so maybe orcs already had that change made?)

Troll Halberdiers's could have +6 hit points instead of +4?
Change the ratio of fire breath to melee attack up slightly for draconian Halberdiers
Dwarves another bonus hit point. Gnolls another melee damage or two. etc...

Remove negate first strike or increase cost as necessary? In theory this would make it so Halberdiers weren't just a mid-level tech option players would HOPE to never need and might hope they could just skip past producing in the tech tree. Ideally they'd be a choice. Maybe gnoll Halberdiers would work well against units with 15 resistance? although jackal riders are already an amazing unique so maybe gnolls are a bad example. Maybe high elven Halberdiers should have higher raw damage output than elven lords if your opponent has no armor or has negate first strike or something?

Although in some cases if you raise the power level of lizardman Halberdiers you risk ruining the dragon turtle entirely (because it's already fairly bad).
The same might be true with regards to klackon stag beetle. Or beastman minotaur.
In fact the only situation in which there is room to wiggle here would be buffing Halberdiers for races that already have amazing top tier units, which feels like a very bad choice. Although if the cost penalty is sufficient it might help slow down the mid game for races with powerful uniques? which might be good?


EDIT: Also going through the first post I see a huge problem between high men and nomad pikemen, if they're actually like that in game. 8 figures versus 4? same cost either way?
The only idea here that might actually "work" from this brainstorming is giving nomad Halberdiers (pikemen) their bows back. It would step on the toes of rangers though. So heck? Give the high men Halberdiers the bows instead :-p In fact nomads while a strong race really do lack a solid purpose built melee squad. Griffins are amazing but flying expensive and 2 figures. Maybe the nomad pikemen could be sturdy and the high men pikemen could for some weird reason use bows? or to account for the missing art call them darts or throwing spears or single load crossbows or w/e. I've just played two nomad games back to back, and I've realized I never once built a single pikeman, so either I'm bad, I have no idea what pikemen do, or it doesn't matter because they're boring and midgame spamming nothing but rangers was more fun.

EDIT2: My idea is pretty bad so how about some Halberdiers INSTEAD lose their racial bonus, of a defense or an attack or a hit point, whatever it might be. Making them more similar to nomad Halberdiers (who lose their bows to become pikemen). This could be good for any race with access to an armorer's guild unit, as it could come with a slight cost discount, for a race that might have overall fairly expensive units and so having a 160% or 190% swordsman unit called Halberdiers could be more useful than having the 266% swordsman you refer to in your post where you mention you're not sure Halberdiers are perfected yet.
Reply

I don't think there is anything wrong with a basic unit being boring, the job for those is not to be interesting or special but to be there are provide a one level superior force above swordsmen.
Reply

What makes them particularly boring is that in the late game you can use better units, in the early game you cannot afford the time cost for the fighters guild. You use swordsmen because you have to. Paying for the upgrade to Halberdiers isn't IMO as fun as it could be for every race. It's basically the exact same complaint I have with the phantom beast. Yes it works, it's fair, but if there's finite spots in the game for units and spells, maybe it's possible to do something more interesting with that space. I think it's actually very important for spearmen and swordsmen to be super boring, it makes you excited when you finally get a hell hound or a sprite or a manticore or berzerker. Maybe Halberdiers are an important part of this setup for the final reveal of the fantastical nature of master of magic smile

EDIT: From this comment though you can tell, I'm not a top tier player smile If I want to master extreme and impossible I'm sure I'll need to improve my use of midgame units, instead of just holding out until I can get the top tier unique special unit I have been looking forward to since the wizard creation screen. Usually instead of regular cavalry or halberdiers I like to spam priests or bowmen or a low level unique at that cost level (200 production building cost roughly or less). I guess I feel like I can rely on hell hounds or warbears or fire elementals or heroes as tanks and having more ranged units always feels smart to me. This is probably a weakness in my own midgame play. I suppose I have a uniquely poor view of regular cavalry and regular halberdiers just from lack of time spent using them in wars against equally teched up AI opponents.
Reply

I do see +2 melee, +1 armor, twice hp and +1 resistance somewhat exciting of an upgrade, especially combined with racial bonuses.

The main point of halberdiers in the mod tend to be their relative cheap cost for what they can do against other melee units. Some halberdiers are merely average (orcs) and some quite good (lizardmen, gnolls)

Reply

(June 12th, 2016, 16:38)zitro1987 Wrote: I do see +2 melee, +1 armor, twice hp and +1 resistance somewhat exciting of an upgrade, especially combined with racial bonuses.

The main point of halberdiers in the mod tend to be their relative cheap cost for what they can do against other melee units. Some halberdiers are merely average (orcs) and some quite good (lizardmen, gnolls)

I can buy lizardmen halberdiers being great but for double the price jackal riders can dominate the majority of normal units in the game. I guess I need to get on board with using halberdiers more though. A small city just cannot afford a 200production unit and a 400 production building when instead they could have literally a full stack of halberdiers instead. Thanks to the production carryover patch change! I need to promise myself in my next game I won't just run the farmer's gambit and pray I get lucky blindly going for a few summons+swordsmen+dump 500-1000production into getting my ultimate unit with no return in the meantime.
Reply

I'm strongly considering to allow Lizardmen to build the Sawmill. (but no miner's guild or mechanicians guild)
I'm not sure which way I want to take them from there, they have decent military but it's not as outstanding as gnolls or barbarians, so probably the ability to build wizards guilds, amplifying towers and cathedrals should stay.
Reply

I'm wondering, do people use the Cavalry unit type? I don't think I can remember even a single game when I produced any. If I need units quickly, and cannot afford waiting for a new building then I do swordsmen or bowmen. If I can afford a building then I go for halberdiers or whatever racial unit I can get.

Sworsmen, although slower, have Large Shield so they aren't necessarily worse against ranged units, and they don't need an extra building.
Reply

(June 13th, 2016, 08:15)Seravy Wrote: I'm wondering, do people use the Cavalry unit type? I don't think I can remember even a single game when I produced any. If I need units quickly, and cannot afford waiting for a new building then I do swordsmen or bowmen. If I can afford a building then I go for halberdiers or whatever racial unit I can get.

Sworsmen, although slower, have Large Shield so they aren't necessarily worse against ranged units, and they don't need an extra building.


I in fact only build a stables if either the stables or the fantastic stables unlock a unique unit. Sometimes even if I don't immediately want cavalry I'll build the stables to unlock the fantastic stables just in case. The production doesn't feel wasted as it protects me against war being declared against me and having nothing at all upgraded beyond swordsmen to build (while later on I'll eventually need it anyways).

However I've never built a regular cavalry unit, part of that though is that I like nomads and horsebowmen. Part of it is maybe that cavalry are too boring? maybe give them all +1 movement? or wait for a better player to comment smile

EDIT: Or alternative idea? double(roughly) the cost of the cavalry improve it's stats double the cost of the stables and reduce the fantastic stables cost by 60. Goal? If no one will build cavalry instead of swordsmen because they're so similar maybe someone will build cavalry instead of halberdiers? They at least don't have a large shield.
Reply

I don't believe I've ever produced generic cavalry in vanilla MoM, though the racial cavalry units are worthwhile. I haven't really played CoM.
Reply

I do not think the nomad road gold income bonus works. Or if it does work it's not a +50% gold bonus as a road bonus. It is instead a +50% bonus to gold earned from roads. Which is roughly 1-2 at most per city. As in nothing.


Attached Files
.gam   SAVE1164.GAM (Size: 151.94 KB / Downloads: 1)
Reply



Forum Jump: