EitB v13 Wishlist/Progress

[DaveV]

I agree with later River of Blood. Suggested techs: Animal Husbandry (animal sacrifice often involves blood offering), Sailing (allows trading over rivers, so can allow River of Blood), Mysticism (animal sacrifice again).

@Aurorarcher: buildings in general are not a great investment. I think a lot of them were reduced in price early in the EitB process, and some of them were given more advantages, but I still don't see a lot of them built. On the other hand, I kind of like the idea of certain buildings only being useful in a few specialized cities, rather than having a long must-build list in every city.

[Aurorarcher]

@Aurorarcher: buildings in general are not a great investment. I think a lot of them were reduced in price early in the EitB process, and some of them were given more advantages, but I still don't see a lot of them built. On the other hand, I kind of like the idea of certain buildings only being useful in a few specialized cities, rather than having a long must-build list in every city.

Some building are useful to build in many cities (like Markets/ECs) but in general I agree; most of the buildings just suck and are not worth the hammers they cost. I also don't like the idea of a must building in every city (like Granary is in BtS), but I also would like to see Granary/Smoke House being more appealing so that you could at least consider building them. Currently they're never built. This is not that big deal for me but overall I think it could add some interesting decisions if there were more buildings worth to consider.

[Bobchillingworth]

I build them frequently in single player, where games run much longer, but almost never in MP. They're too expensive for the benefit, you'd almost always rather have a couple swordsmen or a champ or whatever. Heck, I practically never make Breeding Pits, and those have an additional food bonus.


Which buildings do players regularly construct (ignoring UB)?


* All of the unit production facilities see a fair amount of use, depending on the civ and gameplan. This includes temples.
* Elder Councils and Markets are usually worth building.
* Courthouses at least occasionally, especially if Organized.
* Lighthouses.
* Harbors, frequently. They're cheap and add a substantial commerce bonus.
* Shipyards, if a game runs long. A "pays for itself" structure, between the hammers on water tiles and bonus to ship construction.
* Libraries, in large, productive cities.
* Monuments.
* Forges.
* Palisades for frontline cities, especially if they can be one-turned.
* Public Baths


Alchemy Labs might see a fair amount of use as well, not certain. Anyway, in my admitedly a cursory analysis, I'd say it's an exaggeration to claim that most buildings aren't worth the effort- about half see a fair degree of use, considering how heavily specialized FFH cities can get. The biggest losers are the ones which either boost city health, increase culture by a percentage, or arrive in the very late game (I don't even know what Taverns do, nor have I ever built one, even in SP). Health buildings don't matter much because it's easy to get tile food yields high enough early on so that happiness is a far more significant limiting factor, to the point of health being almost irrelevant outside of blight. Culture percentage buildings are mostly pointless because Culture victories take far too long to pull off, and there's otherwise no reason to bother. Late game buildings at obscure techs won't be constructed even if they cost a single hammer, because nobody will unlock them in the first place.

[Qgqqqqq]

Shipyards also give xp.

I build only Markets/EC and harbors with any sort of frequency. Lighthouses can go either way. Monuments when necessary. Hardly ever forges.


Can adjust vamps.


I like Mysticism for RoB, especially with no EC, but might want to be later than that normally comes?

[Dreylin]

A loaded question; what are our chances of getting these few small tweaks issued as v13.1 in time to start the big game in a couple of months' time?

[Qgqqqqq]

Not loaded at all. But low.

If I get my essays completed before my family goes on holiday I may choose to put some of that time into EitB. But I'm increasingly doubting that'll happen, I also have to learn lines for a production which has yet to release the script, and I do want to spend some of that time with my family.

After that I'll be too busy for a long time.


Possibly could get it in the form of the specific files that will need to be altered, rather than a full build.

Edit: I mean these are pretty easy things to do, if anyone wants to put the time into it. But it does take time, especially when things get screwed up and the need to test everything.

[Dreylin]

Hey, life comes first; didn't mean to imply otherwise, and sorry if I did. I know I wouldn't have the time to do it even if I did have the knowledge; just trying to understand if it were possible so we could set expectations for the game accordingly. Guess I botched the question.

[Qgqqqqq]

I meant low chances, absolutely no offence taken. Seriously, I felt nothing responding to that, probably because I've been so open about the lack of work in the past.

[RefSteel]

A loaded question; what are our chances of getting these few small tweaks issued as v13.1 in time to start the big game in a couple of months' time?

Which few small tweaks? Just Vampire attack strength and Rivers of Blood tech requirement? Or is there a list someplace?

[Qgqqqqq]

First post updated.

These are the package of changes I think are best:

Changes for v1:
FT goes to +25% trade route, from +50%
Remove the +1% food from FT (Bug)
Vampires goes to 5/5 str, from 6/5
Governors Manors now at Mathematics
River of Blood now requires Feudalism, gives +3/-3 pop
Warrens goes to -1gpt

I'm unhappy with maths specifically, but this is the direction I like. Later GMs, but not at Feudalism means there's disparate goals and, IMO, is enough of an initial nerf for me, for the reasons Auro mentioned. Change to RoB is both a decent early nerf and works thematically for the reasons Bob posted.

These are all entirely up for debate. Warrens could be +10% maintenance, as well.