[SPOILERS]PB34: Gawdzak and chumchu

[chumchu]

We're off!

Looks like the site for the second city might be east of the eastern lake with cow, cow, sheep. It expands inland, have great hammers for worker/settlers and military, shares a resource with the capital that will be improved at the time, is within 4,5 hexes for no distance maintenance. The only downside is that both new resources are in the second ring. North of the lake might work as well. Scout should head for sheep hill to check out that area.

[Gawdzak]

Some more resources:




Btw, can we get a sim?

[GermanJoey]

Hey y'all,

Here's your sim. Sorry it took so long; I got very sick and then had to travel, so I sorta forgot. Anyways, good luck!

http://media.rhizzone.net/civ/map_fixed....wordWBSave

[Gawdzak]

Thanks!

[Gawdzak]

Want to see something super tilting?




There's over 2600 land tiles on the map, but AGG Zulu is our neighbour 10 tiles away. Kind of mind boggling to see how that's possible.

Haven't moved scout yet. What should we do? Find out where he is? Keep exploring normally? Warrior rush?

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Want to see something super tilting?




There's over 2600 land tiles on the map, but AGG Zulu is our neighbour 10 tiles away. Kind of mind boggling to see how that's possible.

Haven't moved scout yet. What should we do? Find out where he is? Keep exploring normally? Warrior rush?

Chariot rush usually works far better vs impis

[chumchu]

Looks like we are in for an exciting game. As I see it, early conflict on a very large map with many is likely to be bad for both players. We should stick with the worker first at least

We can not win a warrior rush against aggressive unless they go total glass cannon so it is not worth it to try. However, any way we can dissuade them from rushing us is worthwhile. The problem is that they have three advantages (impis, ikandhas, aggressive) to our none in the early game and they might likely be aiming to rush us with bronze or horses asap. At the very least we should expect heavy harassment. We will want to know if we are their only neighbor and if they have land to settle in other directions.

Do we want to tech archery before bronze working? It costs only a third as much as BW and enables us to build worker, warrior, archer to counter a warrior rush from them. The main argument for fast BW was earlier settler, but can we risk a settler only protected by warriors? I say archery first. Especially since we want to claim land aggressively to have any kind of defensible position. Going for BW first feels very risky, and we must probably tech archery afterwards (or maybe animal husbandry) unless we find bronze very close. Then it might be too late to defend our first expo. I'm glad we have a start that is production heavy right about now.

[chumchu]

Agri ->Archery -> Bronze -> The wheel -> AH (if no bronze). Settle city 2 with first settler?

[Gawdzak]

Honestly I don't think we can really afford to tech archery. That's going to set us behind the rest of field so much that's going to be hard to recover from.

This is how I see it:

We don't tech archery and don't get rushed: we stay even

We don't tech archery and get rushed: we fall behind a lot

We tech archery and don't get rushed: we fall behind

We tech archery and get rushed: we fall behind

The only way we can actually come out ahead is to not tech archery and hope we don't get rushed. Is it risky? Yes it is. But I think we need to just accept the risk. We really need BW fast in order to find out where the copper is and settle it ASAP. If there's one tech we can skip, it may actually be Agriculture. we can at least hook the sheep and the cow and maybe chop settler at size 2.

Btw were you really logged into the game for 9 hours? Now I can't login.

[chumchu]

But getting rushed is much worse than falling behind. As I see it:

We don't tech archery and don't get rushed: we stay even

We don't tech archery and get rushed: we lose

We tech archery and don't get rushed: we fall behind a bit

We tech archery and get rushed: we fall behind a bit, our nearest neighbor fall behind a lot.

To me it boils down to how likely Gsorel is to try to use warriors to rush us or choke us. If p > 0.25 then archery, if not then bronze. We have 8 turns of scouting to help us decide. I have too little experience to determine that but if I were in Gsorel position I would be tempted to send my first warrior towards my nearest neighbor to choke and claim land between us. As they sent their scout towards us it is highly unlikely that they have met anyone else. I bow to your superior experience in this issue.

Thinking about timings: Since they start without mining they need ca. 25 turns to get bronze working if they start with it right away(likely) and then they probably need wheel as well to hook it up and workers turns to do it. Then they must build units. Bronze units could become an issue from around turn 45. (if they have gold or something similiar this is accelerated by 5+ turns).

If they go worker first(likely) the first warrior should be finished between turns 15-20 and be near us in 5 turns. Archery guarantees us supremacy during the 20 turns where we plant our first and maybe second city. We will be 5 turns behind them to bronze but archers can at least defend cities against bronze units. If we build on hills archers can defend them against multiple bronze units.

Unfortunately, I was. Got distracted and forgot I had just tabbed out and not logged out. Oops.