RBP3 - [SPOILERS] - Team DIM (Mehmed of HRE)

[Ilios]

we'll be getting the expensive techs for HBR (with beaker credits i guess)

Edited to add: MB and Dazed will you be available for a short chat tonight? (afternoon for Dazed I guess)
There seem to have been some misunderstandings regarding the tech alliance I want to clear up.

[Ilios]

message from England:

DIM,

We're still waiting to hear from our third team member, but a realization:
My C&D predicts that Exploit has Mysticism and Meditation, and is
going for Priesthood. He'll probably finish it T58 or 59. I don't know
how effective he'll be with his workers, but he'll have a shot at
getting the Oracle by T61/62.

-Cyneheard

Forwarded to Krill, I'd have to check C&D to see if Exploit has a shot at getting the Oracle before T62. (I doubt it though, would need massive pre-math chops and a whip)

Here's last nights chats:

Ottomans:

Subject: Inviting Carthage to Cartel

11:52 PM me: did you guys explain the plan to Carthage yet?
Ottoman: we asked for a chat but they haven't responded yet
11:53 PM me: ok
Ottoman: we might just have to e-mail them about it though
11:54 PM me: better to explain in chat
11:55 PM Ottoman: i'll send them a follow up given the situation
me: ok

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 minutes

12:00 AM me: do Carthage still have that unit?
you might need to coordinate with them and Krill/India to meet up
12:01 AM Ottoman: it stills lives as far as i know
although it is halfway between the 2 of you
12:02 AM have you talked to Carthage yet?
12:03 AM me: they sent us a greeting, but I didn't want to say anything yet as you told us you wanted to be the ones inviting them
12:04 AM Ottoman: well, we could send them a combined e-mail between both of us
me: maybe just send them an email with us in cc
12:05 AM Ottoman: are England still following you?
me: no
but i will direct them north towards yuo
12:06 AM Ottoman: ok
will work on something to send to carthage
me: good

England:

Subject: Convincing them to join Cartel

11:32 PM Haphazard1,: how goes it?
me: aw too busy man
Haphazard1,: ok
quick question: who else are we meeting, besides Carthage?
11:34 PM me: Egypt and Carthage
* and India
Haphazard1,: ok. Inca seem to be forming a group, and Babylon-Mali-Maya-Byz are another
11:35 PM me: then who is left for Inca to join
Haphazard1,: there's still 7 other teams out there
11:36 PM France, Aztecs, Portugal
me: yeah France poor buggers
they still haven't met another team i think
Haphazard1,: really?
11:37 PM me: we've met 9 so far, and F4 gives not one line
11:38 PM Haphazard1,: 9? Well done.
That scout's been useful.
11:39 PM me: yeah, allthough he did die early
Haphazard1,: such is a scout's lot in life with Emperor Barbs on the loose
11:40 PM me: yeah
I hope you guys decide to join us
11:41 PM we've come up with a brilliant plan
Haphazard1,: Besides steamrolling France?
me: hehe, yeah I you guys are invited to the party
dogpile his ass
11:43 PM Haphazard1,: have you met Rome yet?
I think they're due north of you.
me: I can already tell you you should start saving gold
they are NE
11:44 PM but we haven't met them yet?
Haphazard1,: Saving gold...well, we need Hunting for our furs
and is France due east, or SE, of you?
11:45 PM me: SE
Haphazard1,: saving gold? Upgrades?
11:46 PM me: I'll give you the plan
Haphazard1,: this is strictly confidential, regardless of our diplomacy decisions.
me: Krill will finish the Oracle on T62
11:47 PM he will take Alphabet
we first trade around the cheap techs
Haphazard1,: that explains why he doesn't have BW
11:48 PM me: then everyone goes full bore on an assigned tech
Maths/Monarchy/IW/HBR/MC/Currency/etc
that's why we need to save gold
11:49 PM Haphazard1,: ah, ok. We're 2t from Pottery, so are finishing that.
me: ok
can I count you in?
11:50 PM Haphazard1,: Probably, obviously need to talk it over.
But that looks a lot stronger
than the deal being set up to our S
me: 8 teams so far
Haphazard1,: 8!
We're definitely in, if that's the case.
11:51 PM me: welcome
11:52 PM Haphazard1,: and we're in good position to build quickly. We've been #1 or 2 in MFG and Crop Yield for some time now.
We'll have 5 workers for our 3 cities in like 2t
me: commerce is important now
don't overextend
11:53 PM upkeep with tank your economy
*will
11:54 PM Haphazard1,: true
11:56 PM but with Hunting coming in soon
we'll get our furs online, and lots of cottages
me: same here
11:57 PM allthough we don't have yummy furs...
Haphazard1,: you have gold.
Much better.
me:
11:58 PM members of Alliance so far
11:59 PM India/Egypt/Portugal/Ottomans/Aztec/HRE/Carthage/England
pretty solid
12:00 AM Haphazard1,: aye
12:01 AM me: has the southern alliance approached you yet?
Haphazard1,: yes
me: don't say no right away
12:02 AM Haphazard1,: not officially turning them down.
me: good, because the shit will hit the fan once they find out about the Cartel
12:06 AM Haphazard1,: And by Southern, you mean Babylon/Mali/Byz/Maya, right?
12:07 AM me: yup
12:08 AM Haphazard1,: are they on the chopping block?
me: they probably will be
Haphazard1,: Babylon will have its Academy ~T70-71
12:09 AM T71, if they manage their micro right
me: that's not really a problem
Haphazard1,: wouldn't think so, they're a T85 Alpha
or so
12:14 AM I've got to go, get some work done, and post all these chats and such
You'll hear from us in the next 24 hours
me: good, you'll need to move the warior north
Haphazard1,: straight north?
me: to meet the other members
Haphazard1,: ok.
me: sec
12:15 AM i'll need to coordinate with Krill, but for the time being keep moving west unitl after the peak tile
12:16 AM Haphazard1,: I don't see the peak tile
we're 1E of you right now
me: its NW NW of you
Haphazard1,: ok
12:18 AM so we'll go W next turn, and follow you
me: no our warrior is heading back to HRE
Haphazard1,: ah
me: don't follow him
12:19 AM Haphazard1,: it would be obvious when that happens
me: hehe true
Haphazard1,: so relative to TD, where exactly is the meetingplace?
me: depends, I need to check with the others
12:20 AM I don't have their exact locations atm
Haphazard1,: ok
12:21 AM me: move W and you'll meet carthage
Haphazard1,: ok
and they can direct us from there
me: carthage needs to meet the others as well, it's going to be hell logistically
Haphazard1,: oh, I'm sure

India:

Subject: Azteca and Rome

11:27 PM me: somebody there?
DJ: yes
me: rego?
DJ: the one and only
11:28 PM me:
ilios here
you saw Ruffs email?
DJ: yes
11:30 PM me: I proposed Ruff to the carrot/stick
DJ: how so
me: invite them to Cartel
11:31 PM or face dogpile
and use their newly minted axes on Rome
11:33 PM DJ: hmm i'm not sur about that
11:34 PM me: give me your reasons besides what happened in RPB2
DJ: oh that's not a part of it at all
11:36 PM i mean i guess to me it doesn't matter aw hole lot
as they're both far waay from me
but i wish that could have been proposed sooner so i wouldn't have talked about the alliance with rome
me: news flash: Babylon-Mali-Maya-Byz are forming tech alliance
11:37 PM aw you talked to Rome?
DJ: yeah
i saw no reason not to
where did you hear that news flash?
me: talking to England
DJ: hmm

Cartel:

Subject: near future discussion

11:49 PM Krill: ok, ottomans, portugal, HRE, some people haven;t met
so you can;t talk
but this is just a heads up to all of you
11:50 PM Right now we know that other teams are starting to research alphabet, and that new counter alliances are forming, even if they don;t know they are counter alliances
so this is a reminder that we need to be working together, not just in tech, but economically and militarily
we need to break Exploit hard
as he is the other player researching Alphabet
11:51 PM And we need to get as many friends as possible, not just caring about what tech they can provide, but where they can apply military force
right now we don;t even number half of the teams in the game
11:52 PM so we really need to bring in the teams that maybe only one or two of us knows
we need Rome, we need Carthage, We need England
If they reject our alliance than our alliance isn;t going to fly very far
11:53 PM so go and be nice, set up some regional wars on the "unbelievers", bind them in tight
Krill: Crosby, after sucking for hte first 3 periods
OK, that's my spiel done
but one addendum:
please don;t crash your economies, this is emp, and toroidal

And an Email from Ruff:

Guys,

Krill asked me for some map info and I put together this package. I've also included the demos that I can see (just got Inca).

Can you send me screenshots of your map? ... Ctrl-F for satellite view and Ctrl-B for Bare Map then zoom back just before the clouds turn up.

Ruff

--
Rapoleon_Hi
Ruler of the Aztecs
Light of the World
Supreme Arbiter

"I haven't met a person that I cannot sacrifice."

[meatbalz]

ah that changes EVERYTHING then. if by committing to tech HBR now we get to run max gold later while everyone's going after the expensive techs, then the deal's a good one for us and we should take it. if that's the case actually that makes us and egypt the big winners.

we're way behind in expansion but sitting pretty in terms of GNP. if we do it this way round (i.e. provide our "expensive" tech upfront), we can run max gold after T62 while we hyper-expand, safe in the knowledge we get expensive techs fed to us as they're discovered, and then chop/whip rathauses when CoL is traded to us.

which means while other civs are sitting on 4 cities scrambling for beakers, we're expanding out to 6-7, laying down cottages, and running max gold to support expansion + the large amount of troops we'll need to run to discourage aggression/lend to allies. egypt will be doing the same. and if they tech CoL we know at least it's discovered relatively quickly (in fact he may well decide to delay it because it'll help us so much).

anyway like i said we can talk this over tonight. ilios as long as you confirm we have a pretty firm agreement to not owe anything after HBR and get maths, aesthetics, etc for free in return, then i think this is a slam-dunk deal for us.

[Ilios]

I'm not saying we will get those techs for free, but as soon as they discover their assigned tech, they are under the obligation to trade it to us. We'll probably need to provide beaker credits or some gold to balance things, but all in all a pretty good deal.

[Ilios]

Message from Ottomans:

Subject: Carthage

DIM

I have just sent this to Carthage to try to recruit them.

"Hi Nice Shot

I wanted to talk to you guys about something in a chat during the
weekend, but that didn't happen, so now we will tell you via this
message.

The reason we wanted to chat with you is we would like to make you a
proposal. As this is a tech trading game, you probably have assumed
that there will be a tech trading cartel at some point in the game.
Since your teams has limited contacts ATM (just the A4 until DIM
recently), you probably haven't heard much about any sort of tech
trades. However, there is a tech cartel forming and your team is in
danger of being locked out of it.

However, the A4 along with the other members of the tech cartel, do
not think that your team should be locked out, so this message is an
invitation to join our tech cartel. I can't tell you much about it
until you commit, but we can tell you 2 things. Firstly, the A4, DIM,
Krill, Ruff and India are some of the members of the cartel. The other
thing is that you will need to contact as many of us as fast as you
can, particularly Krill (since he is the primus inter pares of the
alliance) who is located to your W. However, we would be happy to
co-ordinate meetings to help you achieve this.

I don't want to rush your team into making a desicion, but we need to
hear your response ASAP. Could your team get back to us regarding this
proposal by the end of T56 at the latest?

If you have any questions about the alliance that you would like us to
clarify, we would be happy to answer them."

This message is just so you can refer to it if Carthage come to you about it.

Also, how is your progress with England coming along?


Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

My reply:

A4,


Thanks for the heads up, and thanks for coordinating with the others to have the meet asap.

England is probably in, they just need the go-ahead from one more team member. As you coordinate the rendez-vous, could you ask Carthage to help the England warrior move to the Indian and Egyptian units (and ofcourse meet up with you). England meets Carthage this turn.


Regards,


Ilios - DIM

I'm glad they can do some diplo heavy lifting for a change...

Messages from Ottomans and Ruff:

Subject: Inca question

Ruff

It is unfortunate that you might be in a war this early. Given the
circumstances, we would also along the lines of KILL INCA if we were
in your situation.

We are still heading to your 2nd city with Belit. We agree that we
shouldn't declare until tech trading day, but let us know if they
seriously threaten your city and there is something we can do. We will
be scouting out the land to your SW after we have made contact with
the Inca.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Ruffs reply:

A4,

I have 2 warriors in my 2nd city - should be enough to hold against a Q. I can also whip an archer in a few turns or 2 warriors if needed. I currently have 1 archer in my capital with 1 added this turn, next turn and maybe the turn after.

I'm sending another email shortly with a pic for DIM.

Ruff

Archers vs Axes should be ok, especially if Aztecs capital is on a hill.

Message from Ruff to us:

DIM,

Here is the situation regards our warriors. I've just moved my warrior up to the forest hill (1NW of current). I expect that this is the turn that Inca will declare (or next turn). Based on intel from India, HotDog (the Q) left their borders a few turns ago heading E and based on the turn of departure will be within my vision of my 2nd city (no border pop yet) this turn (T55). As such, I am expecting them to co-ordinate their attack and place units either next to my capital's culture or 1 tile within its culture this turn.

So, DIM, feel free to move your warrior to that grass hill at any time (maybe sooner is better).

There isn't much I can do about tipping them off about that warrior - I want to put pressure (not much ) on their capital as soon as possible and that means moving now. Anything else leaves me vulnerable to double moving them or missing out on my warrior move.

Cheers,

Ruff

I've sent him back we will be moving Pizarro north on the forest hill this turn. Ottomans have a chariot near Aztecs second city. They've just met Inca.

[meatbalz]

I've revised the Microplan, to take into account our revolt to slavery and to correct some overflow plans.
I do have a question:
If I have a worker at 54/60, and then 1 pop whip, producing 5F + 6H. I then finish the worker with an overflow of 39 hammers, and start a chariot, producing 3 H/turn. The chariot finishes the turn after. Can I count on the surplus overflow (in this case 12H) to flow into the next build? Or do I lose the surplus, and is it therefore better to put the initial overflow in say another worker?
Anyway, here's what it looks like if I keep the surplus overflow:

T53 Settler (47/100)
chop B done, Stakhanov moves W, Karl Marx (worker 3) moves W and starts road
T54 Settler (79/100)
Stakh starts chop C, Sys build road, Marx finishes road
T55 Settler (91/100)
Sysiphus finishes road, Marx moves SW starts road
T56 Worker (0/60) [Settler 103/100]
Chop C done, Sys moves to SW of DIM via DIM, finishes road, then Settler moves SW - W - SW, Marx finishes road ---- REVOLT TO SLAVERY----
T57 Worker (28/60)
Stakhanov builds road, Sys moves towards Horse site, but stays in borders, Settler + Karl Marx move to Horse site
T58 Worker 41/60)
Horse city founded, Marx moves to horse and starts pasture, Stack road finished, Sys moves SW on wheat starts road
T59 Worker (54/60)
Stack moves NE and starts mine, Sys road finished (Horse city and DIM connected) - 1-pop whip
T60 Chariot (0/30) [Worker 96/60] - DIM max food (2/1/1-4/1/2-4/1/0-3/0/1)
Sys moves to Horse Pasture, finishes it with Marx [Horse strategic resource connected], worker 4 SE mines with Stakh, then cancel order
T61 Chariot (0/30) [Chariot 39/30] DIM (7/26)
Sys moves to forest N of Horse site, Marx moves to wheat, starts farm, Stakh finishes mine, worker 4 moves SW - SE starts road then cancel order
T62 Chariot (12/30) DIM (14/26)
Sys chop E, worker #4 E start copper mine
T63 Chariot (15/30) DIM (21/26)
Stakh moves SW -SE, finishes road
T64 Worker or Granary [Chariot 18/30] DIM (2/28 ) max hammer (2/1/1-4/1/2-4/1/0-1/3/1-0/4/1)
chop E finished, Stakh moves to copper, mine finished [Copper strategic resource connected]

We should come up with a micro for Horse city and Midas as well.

this was never answered. i believe the only rule governing overflow is it's limited to the hammer value of the previous build, so if you've got overflow hammers from a granary the max is 60, from a warrior 15, etc. which would mean the 39 hammers would get us both the chariot + flow into the next build as 39<60

as this is a straightforward game mechanics question and non-spolierish, could any lurkers enlighten us?

[meatbalz]

so hard to do micro plans without access to the game

assuming we're confident of securing pottery it might be worth putting those 12 overflow hammers on T62 into a granary @ DIM. if there's any way to get the micro to work with a chop into the granary coming in that turn as well, we build it on T63 (with either 4 or 16 overflow, will need if the 12 overflow hammers get counted double)

i'm still trying to figure out what we build in horse city between T58 and T62

[Ilios]

Yeah I hear ya, I don't even start micro without the game open...

Since we'll be having a chariot out of DIM, with another once we could whip in case of emergency, I'd like to build a monument at horse city, and put the chop in it as well. We'll be building a spear out of Midas once the copper is online.

[meatbalz]

maybe axe would be better? will be clearer when we renegotiate NAP with france but an axe will mow down barb warriors, get much better odds vs barb archers + put us on our way to 10 exp for H.E. much faster than a spear.

[Ilios]

I'm still worried about a double move by a chartiot into Midas, so I'd prefer a Spear. Still has very good odds against warriors. I wouldn't worry about Archers atm since very few teams have Archery. After finishing the monument in horse city we can change the build to and Axe for a turn, then start on a worker once it hits size two. That way we can finish the axe with a whip if necessary.

Don't forgot Tricky will be heading back to our lands for while moving to the east, and we have another warrior coming out of Midas as reserve. We should make sure to have enough cash on hand for an emergency upgrade as well. Maybe go one more turn 100% gold and then switch to full science next turn. (how much is an upgrade warrior -> axe?)