Dare you enter the Whizzard's Realm? Magic and Mysteries abide.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

If the maths works out right, then sure. We want to maximise overflow into the cap (though we have more than enough to 1-turn a worker.

I don't think there's anything wrong with switching to Slavery a turn early, if we'll be building roads. The important thing is, we'll need to generate 17 foodhammers into the workers in our new cities, to allow us to 1-pop whip (and subsequently civic swap on the same turn).

Also, by my calculations, it'll the new cities will be settled on T203. T201 move 2, T202 move another 2, T203 plant. The new cities won't be available to whip until T205 or so, there's no reason to switch to slavery now on T199.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

If the maths works out right, then sure. We want to maximise overflow into the cap (though we have more than enough to 1-turn a worker.

I don't think there's anything wrong with switching to Slavery a turn early, if we'll be building roads. The important thing is, we'll need to generate 17 foodhammers into the workers in our new cities, to allow us to 1-pop whip (and subsequently civic swap on the same turn).

Also, by my calculations, it'll the new cities will be settled on T203. T201 move 2, T202 move another 2, T203 plant. The new cities won't be available to whip until T205 or so, there's no reason to switch to slavery now on T199.

Whoops you're right. Getting ahead of myself there. Yeah we probably don't need a switch straight away, but as we are agreed on the 2 sites, we should come up with a plan to get them up and running with the worker labour available. I'm sure we can hobble something together quickly. I'd probably be in favour of sending all the workers to the new sites, as the cap/barabur will have at least 1 new worker themselves, and have a decent amount of improved tiles for the moment.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Ended turn, made the other moves. And thanks for making the good call on swapping the horses for pigs.

Assuming we're on the same page, these are the cities we want to settle. I think both cities will be connected to our trade network immediately through rivers, giving a bit of research.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I've updated your sim with the area around the new cities, try playing with that. There is an error with it: the GP generates from BD, not Tower. I think it's because Hinduism spread on the T193-194 interturn, and it gave the bonus GPP to the capital. So you'll need to use WB to "teleport" him to the capital on the turn he pops.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

I've updated your sim with the area around the new cities, try playing with that. There is an error with it: the GP generates from BD, not Tower. I think it's because Hinduism spread on the T193-194 interturn, and it gave the bonus GPP to the capital. So you'll need to use WB to "teleport" him to the capital on the turn he pops.

Ok, I think I have a good plan - it overflows a new worker in the cap, gets the AP with the spawn of the GE there too, and half a temple. Gets the banana city worker out eot205, the deer city worker eot206. Whips another worker from barabur and gets a temple there, with some overflow BUT also allows a second 6-3 whip of the cap for another settler eot206, allowing us to go back to serfdom after that.

I like it as it uses the slavery switch to the max. Worker moves are mostly irrelevant in this plan actually, the only important worker action is that the new worker in the cap chops the forest to spur on the 6-3 whip.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Oh, that sounds quite good. I threw up something similar for the builds side of things, but I got stuck on the point that the northern city couldn't generate 17 foodhammers in 2 turns (thanks to being jungle-choked).

Can you post it please? I'll try and find something efficient for the workers to do.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Oh, that sounds quite good. I threw up something similar for the builds side of things, but I got stuck on the point that the northern city couldn't generate 17 foodhammers in 2 turns (thanks to being jungle-choked).

Can you post it please? I'll try and find something efficient for the workers to do.

Yeah I had the same issue - but leaving it 3 turns if it means that we get another 6-3 settler whip is not the end of the world IMO. On this I did 'waste' a lot of worker turns moving to the new sites quicker rather than moving 1 tile and putting down an action, but none of this is dependent on worker actions. I think getting the resources up is better than having more tiles to work, although not always being in slavery that is debatable.

See civstats? Mac I am 95% certain whipped a settler this turn.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

ReallyEvilMuffin: before I do a micro plan, if we are going with that extra settler t206 we need to decide which site it will go to
ReallyEvilMuffin: I think all the options are viable to the north of the cap
ReallyEvilMuffin: anything south doesnt have the tiles or worker support
Nicolae Carpathia: im not really sure, id really like to send him out east
ReallyEvilMuffin: to which site?
Nicolae Carpathia: we could overflow a worker from the settler
ReallyEvilMuffin: We have limited labour available
ReallyEvilMuffin: the site 6669 of barabur is possible, it does share the rice straight away
ReallyEvilMuffin: but we won't be in slavery
ReallyEvilMuffin: the filler spot 663 of the cap is also quite nice, although it would not be instantly connected
ReallyEvilMuffin: it could go south I suppose also as that worker that chopped will be down there, although that is uncontested land really
ReallyEvilMuffin: the issue is the eastern sites run out of good tiles fast
Nicolae Carpathia: oh interesting, it looks like we can overflow *2* workers from the capital after the settler whip
ReallyEvilMuffin: and share with a city that is sharing a lot
Nicolae Carpathia: if we interweave a temple build
ReallyEvilMuffin: the second settler whip or the first one?
Nicolae Carpathia: the second settler whip, overflow into a worker, then build a temple, then overflow into a 2nd worker
ReallyEvilMuffin: could do that
ReallyEvilMuffin: I think in that situation going south is the right call
ReallyEvilMuffin: it has much better tiles
ReallyEvilMuffin: and is safer
ReallyEvilMuffin: we get banana and horses straight away if we put it where I suggest
ReallyEvilMuffin: and it can go commerce or hammer no issues
Nicolae Carpathia: as for worker moves: i suggest that the iron worker puts 1 turn into a road 7 of the iron, then moves onto the north banana jungle, and chops away
ReallyEvilMuffin: yes that was my best effort
ReallyEvilMuffin: and the other 2 move to the deer 9 of the other new city and improve that
Nicolae Carpathia: for the east-northern worker, puts 1 turn into a road towards the new city site
Nicolae Carpathia: the east-southern worker puts a turn into a camp (needs another 2 serfdom turns to finish it), then moves onto BD, then completes the road
Nicolae Carpathia: after the northern city is settled and clears the jungle a worker moves onto the deer and starts roading it
Nicolae Carpathia: the 2nd worker finishes it when serfdom comes in
Nicolae Carpathia: i quite like this plan, it feels quite elegant
ReallyEvilMuffin: settle south with the other settler?
Nicolae Carpathia: one option is to settle the gold-clams city, chop out a workboat
Nicolae Carpathia: i think its safe to play the worker turns and whip now, and decide on the next city over the next day or so
ReallyEvilMuffin: wait a sec
ReallyEvilMuffin: with that worker actions
Nicolae Carpathia: havent moved, dont worry
Nicolae Carpathia: another suggestion: we put BD's overflow into a library instead of a temple, just in case some jerk steals the AP from us
Nicolae Carpathia: actually, countermand that, library is too slow to build, and temple is too valuable if we can get it out
ReallyEvilMuffin: ok im sold, lets start to camp the ivory
Nicolae Carpathia: awesome
ReallyEvilMuffin: but before ending turn
Nicolae Carpathia: ok, first camp, then slave
ReallyEvilMuffin: make sure cap is working horses/whale/corn
ReallyEvilMuffin: in the sim it keeps wanting to work the cottage
ReallyEvilMuffin: unless manually changed
Nicolae Carpathia: so this will hit size 6 on the turn AP completes?
ReallyEvilMuffin: yes
Nicolae Carpathia: ok, ill stick to your plan
ReallyEvilMuffin: then 1 turn working the settler
ReallyEvilMuffin: then whipping 6-3
Nicolae Carpathia: the overflowed worker moves 13, immediately starts chopping
ReallyEvilMuffin: yes
ReallyEvilMuffin: that chop will come in on the 1 turn of working the settler
Nicolae Carpathia: finishes chopping the turn we start the settler, lets us immediately 3-pop whip
ReallyEvilMuffin: the iron worker goes 7, roads, then straight to the banana and chops it
ReallyEvilMuffin: the other workers move up slowly to the other city to improve the northern deer
ReallyEvilMuffin: so the one worker puts a turn onto the ivory, then moves into barabur
Nicolae Carpathia: allow the city to clear the jungle before moving worker B onto the deer
ReallyEvilMuffin: yes
Nicolae Carpathia: ok, lets start!
ReallyEvilMuffin: the other worker moves up 7, putting 1turn of road into each tile as it moves
ReallyEvilMuffin: oh note the sim is 5 culture behind in barabur for some reason
Nicolae Carpathia: ill keep that in mind
ReallyEvilMuffin: it means we get the other deer a turn earlier
Nicolae Carpathia: ok, moved, whipped
Nicolae Carpathia: BD works: iron and pigs
ReallyEvilMuffin: yes
Nicolae Carpathia: cap works: horses, whales, corn
ReallyEvilMuffin: yes
ReallyEvilMuffin: then as turn rolls, worker to banana
ReallyEvilMuffin: other worker 7 and roads
Nicolae Carpathia: and slooowwwly chops
ReallyEvilMuffin: other worker 77 into barabur
ReallyEvilMuffin: yup
Nicolae Carpathia: wish we had the christo redentor lol
Nicolae Carpathia: what should we do with the eastern longbow? move into BD or capital, or sentry out east?
ReallyEvilMuffin: move into borders
Nicolae Carpathia: oh neat, saves a gold
ReallyEvilMuffin: also move that warrior NW of barabur back into borders, the Northern LB will reach the city site in time
Nicolae Carpathia: done
Nicolae Carpathia: what about western warrior? keep as a sentry?
Nicolae Carpathia: i think the other LB can garrison the banana city
ReallyEvilMuffin: I think he could go nicely on that choke mountain out west
ReallyEvilMuffin: lots of warning for anything going on there
Nicolae Carpathia: ok
Nicolae Carpathia: ok, cap working horses, corn, whales, BD working iron, pigs
Nicolae Carpathia: end turn
Nicolae Carpathia: what a critical turn
ReallyEvilMuffin: yes
ReallyEvilMuffin: did you whip both cities?
Nicolae Carpathia: of course
Nicolae Carpathia: both settlers are out
ReallyEvilMuffin: civstats only shows one whip
ReallyEvilMuffin: odd
Nicolae Carpathia: size 3 and 2
Nicolae Carpathia: weird, maybe i whipped them too fast together
ReallyEvilMuffin: yeah that happened to me once
Nicolae Carpathia: and the tracker couldnt parse it lol
Nicolae Carpathia: if it fucks with the other players trying to demoread then lmao
ReallyEvilMuffin: top to bottom in one go

Ok, we've hashed out a good microplan.

Screenshots taken after ending turn. Rip our score and demographics.

[El Grillo]

Looks good, I'm curious how this will stack up with the other players, especially the IMP. It looks like mackoti, Alhazard, and RMOG whipped this past turn as well, and the mid-turn score increase from scooter in the new turn has to be a city founding, right? Guessing that's the result of the bureau-chop settling plan.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Done all the none quibbled movements, I just want to get a definite plan in place before we commit to the northern 2 workers doing the roading pattern and make sure we can't perhaps find better use of their turns for example.

Scooter planted this turn - note now his cap is size 4 with a sac alter. He is going to be whipping hard.

Also amusingly everyone we can see has got religion spread to their cap