RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Zara of the Ottomans

[WarriorKnight]

T56:

Both A & C are farming the wheat while B moves onto the forest that needs to be chopped. Valeria stayed in place to heal for 1 more turn while Belit moved SE/SW.

Re Belit, this is what we should do with its free movement. I have to refer to Ruff's image of the area again:



We are currently on 7E, 2W (2W&2S of the 5E sign). Belit should move SW/SE, SE, N, NE/N, NW/NE for the next few turns. This way we can reveal all of the river for possible trade routes while still being at Ruff's gate at the dawn of BTTD.

[WarriorKnight]

7 New messages to send . I wish I didn't have this much to send.

DJ Civ:

Hi DJ Civ

You team is the 2nd to ask if A4 is the paper size. And with several teams that we still have to contact, I doubt you'll be the last.

A4 stands for Awesome Foursome. However we shortened that to A4 simply because we are anything but awesome in-game. Also it's easier to type .

We will have to come and see your wooden rocks sometime in the future when we have OB. We don't have anything as awe-inspiring as that at Aquilonia yet but hopefully someday we will. However, we do have a lake next to Aquilonia, so maybe we should build the GL J/K .

It's great news that you will have Masonry to trade on BTTD. We expect that we will get mystisicm from Krill (since he gets to PARTAY!!! first and he has it) but it doesn't really matter who the tech comes from.

I (not my team) suggest ATWA (Alliance Within The Alliance) for the name solely because I am too busy PARTYING ON!!! to think of anything else.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Well, I think that AWTA is a good name. Most of the other comments are just gibberish that is being sent right back at them.


Nice Shot:

Greetings Team Nice Shot

Let me on behalf of the A4 and the rest of the alliance welcome you in! I'm not sure how much you know or how much DIM has told you about it, but i'll assume that you know everything else and just answer your questions:


*Post-alphabet, who is researching what? & *Are we making any effort at this point to even out beakers?

We don't know yet what everyone will be researching post-alpha. Krill will be holding a big chat with all other teams sometime around the BTTD (Big Tech Trade Day, T62) and we will all discuss what we research then.

The 2 factors that I see which will influence the next tech is your preference and your tech rate. For instance, we can hardly expect Ruff to give the same amount of beakers as the other team members.

Therefore, we won't be evening the beakers. The 2 main reasons are that it is immensely complicated to even them between so many civs and it means that we all get all the techs. The downside right now is that between every member, we have most ancient techs already researched so unless you really need a particular tech, it might be wise to save on gold for now.


*Does this alliance include any type of mutual NAP/defensive pact/ or is it just a tech trading alliance? (especially important with the DOW against Ruff)

It has never been officially writen down, but in the interest of safety of everyone and the obviousness of what the other teams will think on BTTD, there is effectively one in place. For instance re Ruff, Both DIM and I (who are S and SE of Ruff) are helping him and India (who is to Ruff's W) is preoccupied with Exploit. Everyone else is too far away ATM to help.


I have answered these to my best of my knowledge, however if Krill gives different answers, his are correct.

The A4 accept your NAP extention to T85 and appreciate this gesture of goodwill.

Meeting everyone is going to be difficult. Do you already have DIM co-ordinating meetings for you? If not we would be glad to help. You should direct England to our borders to your N after you and England meet.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Just answering their questions and showing goodwill since they are now in.


Inca:

Greetings JANK

Life for our civ has been fairly quiet since the beginning of time, or the game (your choice). However, you guys seem to have an exciting life with the recent DOW. How do you think you will go in it?

We have indeed met some of the many other civilizations that exist in this world. We would be happy to exchange knowledge of them. However, we would like to clarify that you also will tell us who you have met in exchange for the teams we have met.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

I really don't know what to say in this one. I suspect that they think we will DOW on them for Ruff. But we aren't, so watch for the reply. Also it is harmless to exchange knowledge on the others we have met anyway.

Ruff

Hi Ruff

That's a shame, but at least all of those diplo messages are cool. Can I guess the 5 suprises?

1. Our chariot doesn't attack
2. Archers
3. Tech Trading Day
4. Our chariot does attack

Can't guess the 5th one though.

Inca and us are only really exchanging plesant messages to one another. They suspect that we will declare, so they are trying to fish for info for us before we do. I don't know how effective this ruse will last though but moving away might make them change their minds about us.

Also, since we only met recently, how did you and Inca get in a war situation?

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Not much we can say here, but might as well have the surprises revealed.

DIM posted 2 new messages while I was working on these, one to us and one to our mini alliance

To us

A4


Thanks for the heads up. I'm glad this thing is working out!

I wanted to discuss the situation up north. Aztec will be crippled soon, and with India hellbent on taking out Exploit, I don't know if we can count on them in the middle to long term regarding the inner alliance.

Can you give us your thoughts on the situation?


Thanks and regards,


Ilios - DIM

Reply

Hi DIM

Here are my thoughts regarding our team members:

I trust the Aztec's. Seeing as they will be crippled by the Inca's he won't be able to win the game. Therefore his mission becomes, in his words, KILL INCA!!! He would gladly support us in order to achieve that goal so I don't think that he would turn on us. Afterwards he would still support us because we supported him and turning on us would be silly for him.

India is less certain. We have only known them for a short period of time so we can not trust them completely (yet). However, they are doing their job within the cartel (crippling Exploit) so I wouldn't count them out because of that. Simply, we haven't known India for long enough to really decide one way or another.

You may be uncertain now, but time will tell. I trust Aztec, and I doubt that India would propose the alliance and then jump out of it.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

DIM needs to metagame a bit. Aztec would be very silly to turn away from us mid game since that would mean he is out of solid allies.

India is uncertain since we have met them only recently, but it would be silly of them to propose the alliance and then jump out of it.

To the mini alliance:

DJ,


I am thinking that Rome is colluding with Exploit, and feeding them information on the Cartel's intentions, both tech wise and military.

It seems unlikely that Portugal, with 4 cities out already, and creative to boot, still doesn't have access to Horse. Do you know if they have a unit coming our way so we can lean on them as well?

Anyway, with both Portugal and Rome leaving you to take on Exploit, I was wondering if it wouldn't be a better idea to wait until horse archers come online and the dust has settled around the Inca question.

Frankly, I'm not sure why Exploit is such a priority for India, and from our point of view, it would make more sense to acquire a technological advantage and then taking him out.

Could you maybe give us your reasoning, so we could fill in the newer Cartel member why you will not be able to contribute an expensive tech next round?


Highest regards,


Ilios - DIM

Reply

DIM

I am not sure of Rome's intentions, since we haven't met them yet, so I can't comment there. Nor can I comment on the Portugese lack of Horses, although it's possible the map maker could have (intentionally or not) not given them any.

While waiting and teching might seem like a good idea, I think that crippling Exploit is the right move. He is their power player if he is going for Alpha and denying them alpha for even a few turns would cost them much more than it would cost us.

So really, India are going for Exploit since it would hurt the other alliance more than it would hurt us, which is the right thing to do.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Given the map, it would make sense if Rome was with the other alliance. We haven't met them yet though, so no point jumping to any conclusions without more info.

Otherwise, attacking Exploit is in our best interests since delaying alpha to the other alliance gives us more of an advantage then having India tech something slightly bigger.

[WarriorKnight]

Hey Sockboy, can you answer this?

From Ruff:

Do you have a 2nd chariot that can make it to my 2nd city by TTD?

[WarriorKnight]

Quick reply from JANK:

Hello A4,

At this point we've met the Aztecs, Rome, India, Babylon, yourselves, the HRE and possibly 1 or 2 others. I can not remember at the moment. We seem to meet 1 or 2 every turn now it's hard to keep up! How about yourselves?

Athlete for team JANK

I wish we could simply stall until we DOW them but whatever.

Hi JANK

We have met the HRE, India, Egypt, Aztec, Carthage and yourselves. We also might have left out some since we also meet people every couple of turns. I guess that's what to expect in a game with 17 civs.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

BTW, we need to find a good picture of some sort with a new message (enough talking would be nice but that's already taken) to say when we DOW on people.

[Sockboy]

Ok, so had a quick chat with the guys this arvo, mostly about this...

Do you have a 2nd chariot that can make it to my 2nd city by TTD?

So our current plans have us producing two chariots by t60, one in Nemedia at t57 and one from Aquilonia on t60. Neither will be in place to get to Ruff by t62 (TTD). The one from Nemedia should be able to get there around t64.

Another option for helping Ruff is to deliver Copper to him. Having a look at that the soonest we can deliver copper along the river is T65. So not a great help there either. This also affects our micro plans as worker are needed to road to the river (NW on the way to pig city). I personally don't think we should head down this path.

I think our best bet is to send the chariot from Nemedia up to the area, that way we are doing something visible to help Ruff. We also have Belit in the region, once we've finished scouting out the River. Depending on the situation it might be best to gather both chariots together before declaring, but I think we'll need to wait and see what the situation is. For the moment though lets send the next chariot from Nemedia to the N. WK worked out the path for it from the multitude of maps we've received, hopefully Ruff will still be battling it out and it won't be wasted effort

[Sockboy]

Diplo update: Ruff sent us this little email in response to our discussion about possible help for him.

Hey - here is an idea. Can you send your current chariot E and cut that road? that would slow them down and wouldn't need a war declaration from you. It might tip your position but if Inca have already tumbled to it, then it isn't much of a cost.

Who knows, if you stay in the area, you might be able to nab a free worker or two.

When do you need feedback re copper? TBH, I don't think that copper really helps me. I can hold with my archers. Wait - if they show up with horses, spears would really help. Let me know how much lead time you need or if anyone else will have some copper to spare ... I might be able to plan 2 spears in 2 turns if I have enough warning so that I can return the copper quick smart.

Ruff

Time is of the essence so I sent back this response.

Greeting Supreme Arbiter,

WK asked me to watch for your email. As far as the decisions to be made...

If we send our chariot to cut the road then we won't be able to send
you copper on t65 as we won't have fully uncovered the trade route to
you (at least that's my understanding of how trade routes work). We
were going to use the next handful of turns before TTD to uncover the
trade connection with our chariot. If you don't want the copper than
it's probably a good move for us to cut the road. Speaking for myself
and not the team (we've not had a chance to fully discuss yet
obviously), it's my preferred option.

If you do want copper in the near future then we'll need to uncover
the trade route before TTD and connect ourselves to the river. Our
workers need to start this on t59, so we'll need a confirmation you
need copper by then. We'll need all of the remaining turns between now
and TTD to fully uncover the trade route and be back at your borders
on TTD. If you don't mind us being a couple of turns late (but turning
up with two chariots) then we can delay the decision a turn or two. We
can play after you next turn if you want to wait and see what comes up
on the IBT before you make a decision.

Summing up, we need a decision on whether you want us to 'uncover the
trade route' or 'cut the road' before we play our next turn. If you
choose 'uncover trade route' then we need a confimation you want
copper by turn 60 to ensure we get the connections up by t65. Getting
our copper back may necessitate closing borders again, which I'm not
sure will be possible due to them opening less than 10 turns earlier
(TTD I assume)?

Enough Talking!
Sockboy of A4

I think cutting the road is a great idea, it slows the Incans next load of reinforcements and the possibility of nabbing a couple of worker is great. I'm also not sure how happy I am with us spending so many worker turns roading when they should be improving cities 3/4. Even if we do settle Pigs as city 4 rather than wheat, our workers will be out of place for when the HG needs to be chopped. and they'll end up spending a couple of extra turns shuttling from Pigs to capital to Wheat.

[Sockboy]

I did a bit more digging around in game and spotted this little guy who might crimp our plans a bit...



I'm not sure if barbs are entering borders yet, but if they are he could cause trouble . Our chariot in Nemedia pops next turn, but if he's to go up to Ruff then we'll be waiting for our chariot from Aquilonia. That chariot will actually complete one turn earlier than the screen shows as we change which tiles we work but will still be close, I think the warrior will have time to raze the southernmost mine if he heads straight there. More worryingly he could head over to Nemedia and raze the farm on the wheat there, which would be very troublesome and if he heads straight for Zingara I don't think we can even get the Nemedian chariot there in time . We need to decide what to do about him.

WK also asked for a pic for a war declaration when we need it, here's what I've come up with, thoughts? The quote is from "The Phoenix on the Sword" one of the first Conan books I think.

[Sockboy]

Just a heads up, I misclicked in the forums opening the spoiler thread by accident. Hopefully no one has objections to me still playing, but if someone does I may have to remove myself at least in the short term. I've posted about it in the technical issue thread (the thread I was meaning to open) since I figured it's best to admit the error than have someone else do it for me. Sorry about this guys.

[WarriorKnight]

I think cutting the road is a great idea, it slows the Incans next load of reinforcements and the possibility of nabbing a couple of worker is great. I'm also not sure how happy I am with us spending so many worker turns roading when they should be improving cities 3/4. Even if we do settle Pigs as city 4 rather than wheat, our workers will be out of place for when the HG needs to be chopped. and they'll end up spending a couple of extra turns shuttling from Pigs to capital to Wheat.

We will wait for Ruff's response, but cutting the road is another idea that we could do.

I did a bit more digging around in game and spotted this little guy who might crimp our plans a bit...

True, but I haven't seen any other barb warriors recently. While I admit that we are running kinda too light on barb defenses, I just think it's a bit early.

Just a heads up, I misclicked in the forums opening the spoiler thread by accident. Hopefully no one has objections to me still playing, but if someone does I may have to remove myself at least in the short term. I've posted about it in the technical issue thread (the thread I was meaning to open) since I figured it's best to admit the error than have someone else do it for me. Sorry about this guys.

If it was just a misclick, and you didn't read anything, then you don't need to worry about anything. It would be unfortunate to lose you as a team member.

Ruff to us:

Guys,

Would you like to swap maps with me? From my point of view, I would want to include a 'no trade to others' rule with any map I send you. That way we can have some concrete discussions regarding resource trading along rivers. For example: do both parties need to defog the river for trade to flow?

Regards,

Ruff

We practically have his map anyway thanks to the goodies so I don't see why we should refuse. Also if Ruff's warrior to our NW defog's the river, then our chariot is free to cut the road.

[WarriorKnight]

My response:

Hi Ruff

We could be happy to swap maps with you. We would be happy to include a 'no trade to others' rule as long as you don't send our maps to anyone else as well. Although we practically already have your maps thanks to the 'goodies' you sent to the mini-alliance, so maybe we should just send you our map.

I have run some tests and there are 2 things that are needed to resource trade:

1. Defog the river
2. Sailing

Either one of us could do it, however whoever does defog the river has to have Sailing. Portugal will trade it on TTD but I don't think you have contact with them yet and I'm unsure if you can contact them by then (we can).

If you can contact them and get sailing and Find Krill has time to defog the river, he should probably go do that while we can move our chariot to cut the road. Otherwise we should probably continue to defog the river with Belit. This is all assuming that we want to continue with the plan of sending our copper.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

All of those tests are true, but some could be prone to conditions (eg, if we both only defog half of the river, but that doesn't apply to us). Just laying the options on the table. Note that if we do send a chariot to cut the road, it might not survive (they would surely DOW on us and kill it if they had any units in range).