RBPB3 - Gandhi of the Egyptians

[Krill]

I think I'm going to mispell more often, if that gets me more lurker posts

[Krill]

Oh, christ, what sort of shit have I gotten myself into this time.

It looks like sunrise hasn't explained what this game is going to become to his team mates. This game is effectively an anient start separated TBG game, which is the most aggressive and slowest teching game you can find...ffs, you can't have one team building an army for several fronts. Everyone will have to guard themselves, and tech at the same time.

(11:48:06 AM) Krill: Yo Darrell, you there?
(11:49:16 AM) darrelljs: yeah
(11:49:17 AM) darrelljs: what's up?
(11:49:24 AM) Krill: Been Thinking
(11:49:31 AM) Krill: We need France in our Alliance
(11:49:39 AM) Krill: otherwise we might get stuffed
(11:50:19 AM) darrelljs: France is on the line with you, england and carthage right?
(11:50:22 AM) Krill: tilts it from an 8v8 to a 9v7 in out favour, and means HRE, England, Portugal and Myself only have to worry about a single front
(11:50:24 AM) darrelljs: at the top
(11:50:27 AM) Krill: yeah
(11:50:31 AM) darrelljs: we want 9
(11:50:38 AM) Krill: or middle, whichever way you want tio look at it
(11:50:50 AM) darrelljs: egypt, england, carthage, india, aztecs, HRE, Portugal, Ottomans is 8
(11:50:53 AM) darrelljs: So Rome or France
(11:51:02 AM) darrelljs: We are trying to set up an IM session with Rome and give them one last chance
(11:51:19 AM) darrelljs: odds are slim
(11:51:27 AM) Krill: I wouldn't bother
(11:51:32 AM) darrelljs: Im scared they are going to give Sumeria a Spear
(11:51:59 AM) Krill: You scouted, or got maps, of Sumerias' west?
(11:52:19 AM) darrelljs: Babylon, Sumeria, Inca Maya, Byzantium, Mali, Rome.
(11:52:28 AM) darrelljs: Those are unaligned, which will in the end mean aligned atgainst
(11:52:29 AM) darrelljs: And France
(11:53:00 AM) darrelljs: No, we don't have any intel on their west, only Rome does to our knowledge
(11:53:29 AM) darrelljs: Exploit moved a Warrior out in our direction, I think it was just whipped but only rego will be able to verify
(11:53:35 AM) darrelljs: you dont whip warriors if you can whip spears in 4t
(11:53:39 AM) Krill: Babs/maya/Byz/Mali are alligned as a four already
(11:53:51 AM) darrelljs: really? that is verified?
(11:53:52 AM) Krill: We know Exploit is a civ n00b
(11:54:01 AM) Krill: Verified via England via HRE
(11:54:07 AM) darrelljs: okay
(11:54:28 AM) darrelljs: I think one last IM with Rome is a worthwhile exercise, BUT I also think we need to only pull them in for one round, then dogpile them
(11:54:36 AM) darrelljs: with cats and from multiple directions
(11:54:42 AM) darrelljs: just too unreliable
(11:54:47 AM) darrelljs: Im okay with pulling france in
(11:54:59 AM) darrelljs: If I was you, I would not want france in so you have room to expand, but I guess you can do that toyour south as well
(11:55:10 AM) darrelljs: we have no contact with them
(11:55:31 AM) Krill: Yeah, I know about the Expansion room, luckily Korea is dead though
(11:55:36 AM) darrelljs: true
(11:55:44 AM) Krill: Also, here are the numbers for you
(11:55:51 AM) Krill: We have 2 Fin and 1 Phi civ without France. The counter alliance has 5 Fin and 2 Phi civs, if they have France. 3/2 v 4/1 sounds slightly more in our favour.
(11:56:09 AM) darrelljs: grm
(11:56:11 AM) Krill: and it fills a hole in our lines, means England, HRE, myself and Portugal can focus on one front
(11:56:11 AM) darrelljs: yeah
(11:56:20 AM) darrelljs: okay Im sold
(11:56:26 AM) darrelljs: but I still want to try and get rome one last time
(11:56:31 AM) darrelljs: have you talked to france at all about this?
(11:56:57 AM) Krill: No, France are only known via HRE
(11:57:05 AM) Krill: they were one of teh vetoed civs
(11:57:15 AM) Krill: which means it might be hard to sell it on to HRE
(11:57:26 AM) Krill: but frankly, I don;t see it as much of an option
(11:58:00 AM) darrelljs: Okay...yeah that might be a tough sell
(11:58:19 AM) darrelljs: Morgan/DMOC are okay guys, it must be a metagame thing and not a personal thing
(11:58:42 AM) Krill: From what I heard they threatened HRE with a scouting warrior
(11:58:49 AM) Krill: demanded a favourable border etc
(11:58:57 AM) Krill: They were arseholes
(11:59:13 AM) darrelljs: thats not something worth holding a grudge over...anyone would do the same if they had the opportunity its just common sense
(11:59:21 AM) darrelljs: hmm
(11:59:38 AM) darrelljs: well, if they are only known via HRE And HRE hate them, thats a problem for you
(12:00:01 PM) darrelljs: Babylon, Sumeria, Inca Maya, Byzantium, Mali, Rome, France.
(12:00:06 PM) darrelljs: Strike out the first 6.
(12:00:18 PM) darrelljs: So its either Rome or France. LIke I said, we should try at least one more time with Rome.
(12:00:42 PM) Krill: Try it, but don;t give them any valuble infomation
(12:00:44 PM) darrelljs: Removing Exploit removes one FIN
(12:00:52 PM) Krill: Because Exploit only found out about this from Rome
(12:00:53 PM) darrelljs: No...we are going to see if they give us info on Exploit however
(12:01:10 PM) darrelljs: Yeah...pretty sure on that
(12:02:48 PM) Krill: Also, I think we need to consider getting Ottomans to start on IW
(12:02:52 PM) Krill: right now
(12:09:15 PM) darrelljs: if rome is not in, someone has to tech IW
(12:09:51 PM) darrelljs: id put our hottest techer on math, and our second hottest techer on something smaller, then let them run a gold surplus so they can get construction at 100%
(12:09:55 PM) Krill: Ottomans are best suited IMO
(12:10:05 PM) Krill: they want to do maths
(12:10:09 PM) Krill: but we need IW asap
(12:10:20 PM) Krill: Carthage is probably a hotter techer
(12:10:41 PM) darrelljs: for the sliver I agree, but from a military perspective HBR and Construction are the techs we need. Well, your more of an MP expert but that is how it looks to me.
(12:10:55 PM) Krill: You, Portugal and Aztecs are basically sucky
(12:11:02 PM) darrelljs: IW wont help against AGG Praets
(12:11:15 PM) darrelljs: yeah, but we are going to produce for you guys
(12:11:18 PM) darrelljs: lots and lots of troops
(12:11:20 PM) darrelljs: and pay for them
(12:11:25 PM) darrelljs: we're doing the dying
(12:11:30 PM) Krill: IT never works out that way...
(12:11:34 PM) Krill: trust me
(12:11:37 PM) darrelljs: short term it is going to have to
(12:11:52 PM) darrelljs: but yeah, once we are past this initial phase we have a plan to get a humming economy
(12:11:52 PM) Krill: you forget that we have other teams down here that aren't allies
(12:12:07 PM) Krill: This is a buildfest map
(12:12:15 PM) Krill: but only f you want to die
(12:12:17 PM) darrelljs: I know...every team needs some balance, but right now we cant do everything at once and we need to crank units for 20-30 turns
(12:13:10 PM) darrelljs: so in the meantime I think the teams taht can tech, should focus on that
(12:14:06 PM) darrelljs: take care of sumeria, inca, rome, france (one way or another) and then we have some breathing room
(12:14:37 PM) darrelljs: we need to look ahead to such a time and figure out how the politics are going to play out. want to be on the winning team round 2 as well.
(12:15:27 PM) Krill: You are starting to sound like Exploit.
(12:21:41 PM) darrelljs: thats insulting
(12:22:02 PM) darrelljs: I admit I am an MP noob, but dont imply I dont know how to play civ
(12:22:14 PM) Krill: regarding hte Diplomacy?
(12:22:54 PM) Krill: I could find a very solid comparison...
(12:23:00 PM) darrelljs: go for it
(12:23:44 PM) Krill: That's exactly what Exploit said when he was negoitiating with regoarrarr, before the gran anti Incan alliance got formed
(12:23:58 PM) Krill: regoarrarr described Exploit as playing survivor style diplomacy
(12:24:06 PM) Krill: which is exactly what you describe above
(12:24:21 PM) darrelljs: didnt that work for exploit?
(12:24:28 PM) Krill: Not really.
(12:24:29 PM) darrelljs: at least one round...if he messed up after that so be it
(12:24:33 PM) Krill: He was dead inside 40 turns
(12:25:12 PM) darrelljs: okay...Im not sure you are drawing the right conclusions, but then I didnt follow PB1 all that much
(12:25:45 PM) darrelljs: But I will predict the teams that build the strongest relationships will win in the long run
(12:26:02 PM) darrelljs: cause as one alliance comes out on top of another, competition will break it apart
(12:26:13 PM) darrelljs: If Im wrong, Im wrong, but thats what I think will happen
(12:26:34 PM) darrelljs: strong freinds means you dont have to worry about the breakdown, or at least you can worry less
(12:26:52 PM) Krill: Yeah.
(12:30:03 PM) darrelljs: "we need to look ahead to such a time and figure out how the politics are going to play out. want to be on the winning team round 2 as well."
(12:30:12 PM) darrelljs: so that was me seeing if you are wanting to be a strong friend :P
(12:31:18 PM) Krill: So, I take it that you aren't against swapping alliances or allies when it suits you?
(12:36:33 PM) darrelljs: incorrect
(12:36:37 PM) darrelljs: YOu are an ally
(12:36:44 PM) darrelljs: you are what I call a trustworthy and strong ally
(12:36:55 PM) darrelljs: having a long term arrangement with you would be in our interests IMO
(12:37:09 PM) darrelljs: there are other teams in the allaince that we have weak ties to, more of a marriage of convenience
(12:37:44 PM) darrelljs: there are teams NOT in our alliance that we woudl be willing to work with in the future as well. Anyone but Sumeria and probably Inca.
(12:38:21 PM) darrelljs: Of cours all this is me and we have 3 others on our team
(12:53:41 PM) Krill: FWIW, I asked you early on to put this alliance together with me, because I know you, as a team, can do it. I consider you allies, and I've already stated that I want to work closely with you, but I've not really heard anything back.apart from requests for my resources.
(12:54:07 PM) darrelljs: Hmm...I didn't realize that was your impression
(12:54:37 PM) darrelljs: The resource request was in the interest of protect the alliance's monopoly on Alphabet
(12:56:29 PM) Krill: It's my only strat resource, and I don't know where copper is. WC are the only thing stopping me from getting rushed. Alphabet isn't going to be a monopoly forever, even if Exploit was dead by t70, someone else would get it 10 turns later.
(12:57:23 PM) darrelljs: Okay...well its good to clear that up. In the end you are providing something to the alliance at the beginning on one can match, by building the oracle and taking alphabet
(12:57:45 PM) Krill: It's not that simple though.
(12:58:01 PM) Krill: You can't just plan on building hte Oracle when it suits you
(12:58:14 PM) Krill: You have to sacrifice third cities, workers,
(12:58:18 PM) darrelljs: Oh, I agree.
(12:58:33 PM) darrelljs: Getting it on t62 and with Writing in place definiltey requires sacrifice.
(12:59:51 PM) darrelljs: But see, that gets back to something I said earlier, we hvae to bring to the table initially something we have the capability to bring. For us, its military. We don't have Gold in reach, but we do have Food for production.
(1:00:27 PM) darrelljs: Now, that's not balanced, and it will take time for balance to be reached. I get the feeling you believe you are getting the short end of the straw a bit.
(1:00:41 PM) darrelljs: But look at it from our perspective too...we have Stone and are IND, but we won't be building the Pyramids.
(1:01:19 PM) darrelljs: We also run the risk that if the alliance collapses before we can switch to commerce, we'll be left way behind in terms of tech.
(1:01:24 PM) Krill: As it currently stands, not really. But I can't offer anything above and beyond what I currently am without effectively giving up any chance of winning this game.
(1:01:48 PM) Krill: For instance, how far are you from city 4?
(1:01:54 PM) Krill: 5 turns? Less maybe?
(1:02:00 PM) darrelljs: We founded city #4 to claim copper last turn
(1:02:04 PM) Krill: see.
(1:02:16 PM) Krill: I'm about 15 turns from city 3
(1:02:28 PM) Krill: City for, at least 20
(1:02:41 PM) Krill: *4
(1:02:49 PM) darrelljs: Yeah, but you'll have a huge beaker surplus in the bank from trading aroudn Writing/ALphabet, to allow you to focus on expansion for somet ime
(1:02:56 PM) darrelljs: like I said, it will take a while to hit the balance.
(1:03:09 PM) darrelljs: I mean, and correct me if I am wrong, I thought this whole thing was your idea
(1:03:16 PM) Krill: But I can't focus on expansion if I only have archers.
(1:03:38 PM) Krill: I'll be in Ruffs position, easily choked
(1:03:48 PM) darrelljs: And we'd come to your defense
(1:03:52 PM) darrelljs: Like we are going to come to Ruff's
(1:04:04 PM) darrelljs: Okay, yes he's crippled and you would be too
(1:04:17 PM) Krill: dude, you are 26 tiles away, with an enemy less than ten tiles from a 2 city front
(1:04:22 PM) darrelljs: France?
(1:04:36 PM) Krill: hmmm?
(1:04:46 PM) darrelljs: Are you talking about France as an enemy?
(1:04:49 PM) Krill: maya, Byz and Mali
(1:04:59 PM) Krill: France would just be icing on the cake
(1:05:07 PM) darrelljs: Okay...
(1:05:48 PM) darrelljs: Okay I get it...but I am not sure what you want us to do about it. Obviously we'll figure out how to do it without your Horse resource.
(1:06:17 PM) Krill: I don;t really want you to do anything about it, apart from Realise that you can't split up unit production duty on a TBG map
(1:06:32 PM) Krill: next time you talk with sunrise, ask him about ancient start separated TBG games
(1:06:47 PM) Krill: That might give you some idea of the game that we are now playing
(1:06:50 PM) darrelljs: Okay...I'll do just that.

[spacemanmf]

I think I'm going to mispell more often, if that gets me more lurker posts

Haha sorry, my first contribution to this thread (I think) and it's just to be pedantic. (While we're on that, did you mean east of your capital?)

It's difficult as there aren't many non-specific lurkers, and those who are (like me) are both trying to keep track of what is going on and keen to avoid any spoiler-type comments.

It's been a while since some shots of your cities, I think?

[Krill]

Good catch. I understand directions, always mixing up east and west...

Chat with Ottomans, they might have to tech IW...

(1:23:40 PM) Krill: Ottomans, got a moment?
(1:28:52 PM) Ottomans: sure
(1:29:21 PM) Krill: OK, Rome aren't likely in the alliance
(1:29:34 PM) Ottomans: ok
(1:29:50 PM) Krill: which means we need someone to research IW...
(1:30:13 PM) Krill: And I know it is sucky, and that you likely don;t want to, but you might be hte best team to research that.
(1:30:44 PM) Krill: Don;t worry about Maths, we can get Carthage (Financial and with 3 cities, and lots of pop) to research that, probably faster than you could
(1:31:16 PM) Krill: So, what I'm asking, is how fast could you research IW if you started now
(1:31:35 PM) Ottomans: i have to go in game to check, but i will
(1:31:40 PM) Krill: Thanks
(1:34:29 PM) Ottomans: ok, 15 turns at 100%
(1:34:35 PM) Ottomans: we have enough gold
(1:35:38 PM) Krill: ok
(1:38:59 PM) Krill: so t71
(1:40:46 PM) Krill: damn, figuring out researchers is hard...
(1:40:52 PM) Ottomans: actually it is t72 i think
(1:41:01 PM) Krill: isn't it t57 right now?
(1:41:11 PM) Ottomans: yeah
(1:41:14 PM) Krill: you'd be able to trade it t72
(1:41:21 PM) Ottomans: 57+15=72
(1:41:26 PM) Ottomans: doesn't it?
(1:41:31 PM) Krill: whenever I refer to a turn, that is the turn it is researched; it gets traded teh next turn
(1:41:59 PM) Krill: research is at the end of turn, so 57,8,9,60,61+10= research at eot t71
(1:42:19 PM) Ottomans: ok then
(1:42:40 PM) Ottomans: we e in a group chat ATM and are discussing it
(1:43:02 PM) Krill: ok
(1:43:30 PM) Krill: fwiw, HBR being started means we need maths, Monarchy and IW to be researched
(1:44:01 PM) Krill: And then ocne maths is in, we need 2 teams to go full bore on currency and Construction
(1:45:18 PM) Ottomans: true, although someone could go currency when alpha gets traded around
(1:46:06 PM) Krill: True, problem with that is that currency costs 720 beakers
(1:46:16 PM) Krill: that's expensive, and lots of gold needs to be saved
(1:46:21 PM) Ottomans: well, dosn't hurt to get started on it
(1:46:31 PM) Ottomans: altough forgot bot the gold
(1:46:50 PM) Krill: yeah, if maths can be researched fast enough, it works out quicker to wait for maths and the tech bonus
(1:48:06 PM) Krill: The problem is IW needs to be teched by someone that will meet everyone early
(1:48:14 PM) Krill: you are central, and will get that contact very shortly
(1:48:37 PM) Krill: Carthage, England can't do that
(1:48:37 PM) Ottomans: so everone needs IW
(1:48:40 PM) Krill: yeah
(1:49:12 PM) Krill: Aztecs are choked, India is about to go total war, as are portugal, and neither have cottages
(1:49:22 PM) Krill: Hre are on HBR
(1:50:04 PM) Ottomans: ok- quick question
(1:50:23 PM) Krill: shoot
(1:50:37 PM) Ottomans: a team member wanted to clarify if beaker costs are ignored
(1:50:41 PM) Ottomans: I assume they are
(1:51:06 PM) Krill: they are for the ancient era techs.
(1:51:39 PM) Krill: simply because if 2 teams have one tech, who gets what credit?
(1:51:45 PM) Ottomans: true

[Krill]

Message to Carthage:

Carthage,

And to business...would it be possible for Carthage to turn off tech right now? I'm chatting with other members of the Alliance, and if you can save up about 80+ gold by the start of turn 63, then you are the team that has to research Maths. At the worst, you can trade for pottery from Ottomans, and once you meet Portugal you can get Sailing from them, Meditation and Archery from Aztecs, Masonry from India, I'll trade the rest of the religious branch, Writing and Alphabet. It'll take time to meet all of them, but we are in a rush to get to catapults and HR...

In case you haven't been fully informed, then here is the list of teams researching current techs:

* Ottomans - IW, due for trade t72
* HRE - HBR, due t73 (maybe sooner with cottages)
* India - Masonry, Hunting
* Portugal - Fishing, Sailing
* Egypt - Writing, Alphabet, Myst, Poly, Priesthood
* Aztecs - Archery, Meditation

That leaves Currency, CoL, MC, Aesthetics as the important techs that aren't being researched. Unfortunately for Portugal, India and Aztecs, there will be quite alot of early game warfare going on (Aztecs are already being choked by axes), so they are focussing on that and not on teching right now, in an attempt to ward off Agg Rome (Portugals' job), Sumeria (Indias' job, and Sumeria are researching Alphabet) and and the Incans will be dealth with by Aztecs and hopefully Ottomans, so we'll have to play that by ear, but research Currency without maths is probably not a wise course of action.

If you can tell England to start saving gold as well, then they are the best team to make a run at Monarchy. If they have to save gold after t63 before they can research Monarchy in 1 go at 100% that is OK, as I should be able to research Monotheism by t69 to trade to them, to speed it up. They might have to research for a short while with only one prerequisite, but a fast HR equals sooner we can grow our cities.

Krill

[Krill]

Chat with Ottomans; they agreed to start research into IW this turn.

(1:23:40 PM) Krill: Ottomans, got a moment?
(1:28:52 PM) Ottomans: sure
(1:29:21 PM) Krill: OK, Rome aren't likely in the alliance
(1:29:34 PM) Ottomans: ok
(1:29:50 PM) Krill: which means we need someone to research IW...
(1:30:13 PM) Krill: And I know it is sucky, and that you likely don;t want to, but you might be hte best team to research that.
(1:30:44 PM) Krill: Don;t worry about Maths, we can get Carthage (Financial and with 3 cities, and lots of pop) to research that, probably faster than you could
(1:31:16 PM) Krill: So, what I'm asking, is how fast could you research IW if you started now
(1:31:35 PM) Ottomans: i have to go in game to check, but i will
(1:31:40 PM) Krill: Thanks
(1:34:29 PM) Ottomans: ok, 15 turns at 100%
(1:34:35 PM) Ottomans: we have enough gold
(1:35:38 PM) Krill: ok
(1:38:59 PM) Krill: so t71
(1:40:46 PM) Krill: damn, figuring out researchers is hard...
(1:40:52 PM) Ottomans: actually it is t72 i think
(1:41:01 PM) Krill: isn't it t57 right now?
(1:41:11 PM) Ottomans: yeah
(1:41:14 PM) Krill: you'd be able to trade it t72
(1:41:21 PM) Ottomans: 57+15=72
(1:41:26 PM) Ottomans: doesn't it?
(1:41:31 PM) Krill: whenever I refer to a turn, that is the turn it is researched; it gets traded teh next turn
(1:41:59 PM) Krill: research is at the end of turn, so 57,8,9,60,61+10= research at eot t71
(1:42:19 PM) Ottomans: ok then
(1:42:40 PM) Ottomans: we e in a group chat ATM and are discussing it
(1:43:02 PM) Krill: ok
(1:43:30 PM) Krill: fwiw, HBR being started means we need maths, Monarchy and IW to be researched
(1:44:01 PM) Krill: And then ocne maths is in, we need 2 teams to go full bore on currency and Construction
(1:45:18 PM) Ottomans: true, although someone could go currency when alpha gets traded around
(1:46:06 PM) Krill: True, problem with that is that currency costs 720 beakers
(1:46:16 PM) Krill: that's expensive, and lots of gold needs to be saved
(1:46:21 PM) Ottomans: well, dosn't hurt to get started on it
(1:46:31 PM) Ottomans: altough forgot bot the gold
(1:46:50 PM) Krill: yeah, if maths can be researched fast enough, it works out quicker to wait for maths and the tech bonus
(1:48:06 PM) Krill: The problem is IW needs to be teched by someone that will meet everyone early
(1:48:14 PM) Krill: you are central, and will get that contact very shortly
(1:48:37 PM) Krill: Carthage, England can't do that
(1:48:37 PM) Ottomans: so everone needs IW
(1:48:40 PM) Krill: yeah
(1:49:12 PM) Krill: Aztecs are choked, India is about to go total war, as are portugal, and neither have cottages
(1:49:22 PM) Krill: Hre are on HBR
(1:50:04 PM) Ottomans: ok- quick question
(1:50:23 PM) Krill: shoot
(1:50:37 PM) Ottomans: a team member wanted to clarify if beaker costs are ignored
(1:50:41 PM) Ottomans: I assume they are
(1:51:06 PM) Krill: they are for the ancient era techs.
(1:51:39 PM) Krill: simply because if 2 teams have one tech, who gets what credit?
(1:51:45 PM) Ottomans: true
(2:12:16 PM) Ottomans: ok, we have an answer
(2:13:34 PM) Ottomans: we will switch to IW now provided that well still get writing/alpha from you on TTD and we can get math ASAP when it is researched
(2:14:02 PM) Krill: Dude, I was always going to trade you writing and alphabet on t63, and maths asap goes without saying
(2:14:14 PM) Ottomans: true, but just making sre
(2:14:20 PM) Krill: OK
(2:21:28 PM) Ottomans: While your here, could we get an EP agreement to not send over 43?
(2:21:47 PM) Krill: I can agree to that
(2:22:10 PM) Ottomans: great

[Krill]

Message to and from HRE:

Krill,


After discussing this with the team, we have come to the conclusion that we indeed need France in the Cartel for strategic reasons.

Although we would feel another team would be better placed to approach France, it would seem that they still haven't met any other Cartel members, and as such DIM will be making the proposal.

I must add that I've had a nagging feeling that France is about to prepare for war with us. I've sent them a NAP-extension request yesterday, and have had no answer as of yet.

I'm thinking what would be the best way to approach France. Do I tell them of our plans right away, or do I simply invite them to our Cartel without giving the specifics? As you know, we have no trust whatsoever in this team, and I'm afraid that critical information on the Cartel could end up in the wrong hands.

For now, I will give France another 12 hours to answer our NAP proposal before mentioning the Cartel.


Regards,


Ilios - DIM

I think the best way would be to say it like it is: we have 8 members, and we'd like them to be the ninth. The other side isn't organised, and is behind us in the tech race. We are happy to front them the ancient era techs free of charge, and we'd like them to tech a later era tech (say, Metal Casting?) Everyone has warriors out, and it would be very easy for all of us to get contact asap. Add into this that there is an NAP between all members until, say, turn 115 (whatever, make one up, I don't think any of us will complain about that). Don't threaten them. Don't say who is Oracling Alphabet, just say that it will be researched by turn 63 (as per normal). Focus on the benefits, that they will be able to expand to the south and have 3 safe borders, with all of the lands being split equitably between the CAN members (no aggressive settling etc). Nothing else we can do. But I think this needs to be done tonight, and before the turn rolls.

Krill

[Krill]

Oh, and Rome is definitely out. Well, Congratulations...Rome just forced the game to bog down, which kinda suits them, the team that starts losing power the later the game goes on.

Hopefully they don't understand just how prepared we are for this first tech trade.

As Darrell has said to me, the only thing going for us is our size, if we can get France, and speed. I didn't say it, but speed is the only thing you ever need. If we can get France, then I'm feeling bullish about our chances, or more specifically, my chances to get back up and running once Oracle has finished...I figure having 3 workers ready to chop, a size 6 capital slave, and some extra happiness from that furr is going to be a big help. And I'm still waiting on some free religion spread...

[Krill]

Pictures of my two cities...I just noticed I know have an 11th forest in DM. That makes, what, 4 forest growths in less than 60 turns?

Ankh-Morpork, size 6 (largest city in the world...at least the roleplay is honest ), 6 turns from the Oracle, not 7, as it will work the unmined hill for 3 turns to just make it to 151 hammers.




Dunmanifestin, size 3, just about to finish my third worker, which is most likely going to irrigate the remaining river grassland, and then chop the roaded grass forest in AM. It doesn't have a guard, because I've moved the warrior towards AM, as there is a possible barb warrior that might try and disrupt my worker pasturing the horse, and I can get more warriors from DM easily.

[Krill]

New developments: Darrell approached me asking if I would mind the Incans joining the Alliance. I said I don't mind, which isn't strictly true, but pissing off Ruff is probably not the best thing I could do, long term. So now some discussion ahs taken place or something, and now the Incans are supposedly 50/50 to join, but seem remarkably well informed.

In other words, Rome blabbed, so we are definitely facing the old 1v1 situation which we still have the ability to slant in our favour. TBH, it's a Catch 22. Either I try to keep the current situation, and Aztecs never recover, allowing India a lot of land to expand into (Sumeria and land that is close to Aztecs), or Incans join and I'm facilitating a 4v2 (OK, against agg Rome) which allows the dreaded teams to start focussing on peace a little sooner.

And HRE sent an email to Morgan asking him for a chat.