RB Pitboss #1 SPOILER - Hatshepsut / India

[regoarrarr]

Replied back -

Wait a minute!

To achieve our goal of helping out Elkad, and based on our conversations from yesterday afternoon, including the agreement that we made for tech trading, I declared war on shadyforce.

Now you're backing out on that? That doesn't seem right.....

I'm not going to fight it if he won't do it (and he probably won't) but I'm at least going to give it a whirl...

[regoarrarr]

Also email from Munro - nothing earth shattering there

Sorry - I was away last week and RL is very busy at the moment with our recent move and looking at buying houses. I haven't had much time to think about the game.

Right now I'm still just trying to rebuild my civ and take advantage of the current peace. I wouldn't be interested in attacking Broker. He put his stake in the ground when I was faced with a fight against both dsp and Kodii alone. The situation was averted, but he earnt my support. Everything else is potentially on the table, though.

What have you made of twinkletoes? He seems friendly and uninterested in war, but now that you have declared on shady, are you expecting to face him as well?

Nice to see it's not getting tooo quiet around here at least.

Best of luck on the battlefield,

[regoarrarr]

Reply to Munro

Thanks for the email - I know RL can get that way and I wasn't angry or upset - mostly just givin you a tweak / reminder :-D

I totally understand your position on Broker and I feel the same way. He has done a masterful job of getting the support of other civs around the globe (Lins, you, Elkad, etc) and it's the reason that he is probably going to win this game.

At this point, I suspect the world is on course for another big war, probably (hopefully?) with everyone against Twinkletoes. But we shall see.....

It's certainly possible that TT will be declaring on me this turn. He marched his ex-Elkad stack right up to my borders last turn. When I called him on it, he said they were "just passing through" and would "disappear" next turn. My logistical advisors question the truth of that, since if they were on their way elsewhere why would they end their turn ON A NON-RAILROADED TILE!?!?!? On the other hand, he is right about them "disappearing" though if they step into my lands :-D

[regoarrarr]

And if Broker is done tech trading, well then let's see about TT

Hi - one other thing I thought of this morning is that if you're interested in tech trading, I researched Industrialism last turn. So if you have (or will have) something to trade for that, I'd be interested. I'd potentially be willing to front the tech (i.e. if you're in the middle of researching something else and dont' have it now but are willing to trade it when you research it)

Of course, this is depending on things like whether you have an army in my lands by the time I get back into the game, of course :-).

[regoarrarr]

Email from TT

I appreciate your offer and I cannot deny that it is highly attractive to me. In fact, it may even be the best offer I have to ensure a great shot at victory.

I will not waste your time, winning is not my main aim for this game. I started with a game plan in mind and shady has been very helpful. I cannot turn my back on him.

I may lose because of this but I am doing what i think is right, rather than expedient. I may be panned by lurkers but it is just a game to me.

I wish you luck and may the best team win.

Twinkletoes

P.S. For the record, my placement of the army was a genuine mistake, and was not meant as a threat gesture. You may not believe it but that is how it was.

My reply

I understand. I don't suppose you'd be willing to share at least some parts of your game plan? It would help me in trying to find ways that our two nations could work together.

It's always kind of frustrating to have multiple replacements in a game for just this reason - when new leaders come in, they have different ideas of how to play and it certainly can make things interesting! And I'm of course grateful to you and all the other replacements anyways since without them there would be no game at all.

I was unsure as to whether or not your email should be construed as a declaration of war or not?

[regoarrarr]

As you guys may or may not already know, shadyforce and Elkad are teaming up to declare war on me. I assume later in this turn or next. I guess next since they've both played already.

Unclear whether Twinkletoes (or even Broker / Lins / Munro) will be involved.

I feel really dumb here as I just gave Industrialism to Elkad when the turn flipped - he conned me by playing me along about attacking shady, even though the deal was made a few turns ago.

Now to see what can be done.

[regoarrarr]

email from TT

In terms of stuff I can give anyone, my main aim is to have a peaceful end to the game (like PBEM1). Now obviously this is still a way off as there are things left to resolve by many teams it seems. I would be foolish if I did not believe that there is one more big war to happen before the end rush, however I do not know how the cards will fall when they do. Will there be a dogpile on yourself or me as the two leaders? Or just a general conflict which splits the world in two, with say myself, you, shady and Elkad against the Broker alliance?

In terms of my last email, it doesn't have to be a declaration of war if you don't want it to be. My ideal intention would be to gift shady resources to defend himself, but for most that would seem as 'Casus Belli'. My main intention (at least currently) is to protect shady out of obligation to such a strong bond which was forged long before I took over. I think it would be more frustrating for those involved in the game if I turned the political spectrum upside down upon my arrival.

I understand the frustrations with the change of leadership, and that is why my diplomacy has been (initially) focussed on trying to maintain current relations (hence my defence of shady) rather than rock the boat so significantly.

In an ideal world, I would have been able to achieve my aim of a peaceful 10-15 turns to properly conduct my diplomacy and come up with a cogent plan, which is why I made peace with Elkad at the first opportunity. This would also mean no breakneck shifts in alliances and avoid the frustrations you mention. However, it seems that I will not get that wish.

I offer you this deal to try and avoid unnecessary bloodshed on all sides and a chance at building a proper relationship before my hand is forced by my defence of shady:

10 turns of peace between myself, you AND shady and discuss a way to avoid a resumption of this war and come to a 'more profitable' solution. I don't mean just a catch all 'game long NAPs all around' - I mean a proper 50-50 partnership where we can work towards a peaceful endgame and gain a critical advantage over all our other competitors. If we can reach an agreement I would be happy to make a deal similar to PBEM1 where we race to victory peacefully and respectfully.

I really hope we can come up with a better solution that what we are currently facing,

[regoarrarr]

Chat log with Elkad, where I get the news. Some good stuff in there

Conversation with Elkad on 3/2/2010 10:05:34 PM:
(10:05:36 PM) me: there?
(10:05:46 PM) Elkad: yeah
(10:05:49 PM) me: cool
(10:05:51 PM) me: it's regoarrarr
(10:07:23 PM) Elkad: so twinkle pulled out of the war (and teched me up)
(10:07:29 PM) me: yeah i saw that
(10:07:32 PM) Elkad: shady is..
(10:07:40 PM) Elkad: uh, I think he realizes he's in a meatgrinder
(10:07:54 PM) Elkad: he can kill me eventually alone, but at what cost?
(10:08:04 PM) me: yeah
(10:08:12 PM) me: i am pondering declaring this turn
(10:08:14 PM) Elkad: anyway, we are arguing about him giving me some land back
(10:08:21 PM) me: it would be neat if you could kill that stack
(10:08:33 PM) Elkad: I've gotta get some artillery up
(10:08:57 PM) me: with only 1 mg in that stack you should be able to smash it
(10:09:50 PM) Elkad: I'll have 2 bombers next turn, that will give me a decent amount of collateral
(10:10:01 PM) Elkad: plus a couple arty and some old cannon
(10:10:02 PM) me: yeah tomorrow would be the time to do it
(10:10:06 PM) me: i mean next turn
(10:10:10 PM) Elkad: yeah
(10:10:16 PM) Elkad: otherwise his stack will get away
(10:10:19 PM) me: right
(10:10:30 PM) me: and i'll be putting hte pressure on from the nroth
(10:10:34 PM) me: now that my nap is up
(10:10:35 PM) me: this turn
(10:14:20 PM) me: man i screwed up
(10:14:52 PM) Elkad: drove a stack in with open borders instead of declaring?
(10:14:56 PM) me: no not that one
(10:15:03 PM) me: forgot to load my units on the boat last turn
(10:15:05 PM) me: now they can't attack
(10:15:09 PM) Elkad: oh, yeah..
(10:15:58 PM) Elkad: you declare already?
(10:16:01 PM) me:
(10:16:06 PM) me: yeah
(10:16:50 PM) Elkad: sucks we've got him in a timer split..
(10:17:09 PM) me: yeah maybe i should just not move now?
(10:17:32 PM) Elkad: well without knowing what else you had planned..
(10:17:37 PM) me: nothing
(10:17:43 PM) me: the only thing i was going to do was raze a city amphibiously
(10:18:09 PM) Elkad: guess you'd have to talk to him about that
(10:18:23 PM) Elkad: whatever land forces will look like a double
(10:18:27 PM) Elkad: if you play first next turn
(10:18:29 PM) Elkad: even if they aren't
(10:18:39 PM) me: yeah i know
(10:18:48 PM) Elkad: no work for me the next few days
(10:18:59 PM) Elkad: so I should be able to play right at the turn flip
(10:19:04 PM) Elkad: should give him plenty of time
(10:19:42 PM) me: yeah i guess i'll just have to take last
(10:20:04 PM) Elkad: hopefully there will be a spot where either you or I can swap the order
(10:20:08 PM) Elkad: without giving up a move
(10:20:13 PM) Elkad: in the next few turns
(10:20:21 PM) me: you want to play right nwo?
(10:20:25 PM) me: i'm last so i could end the turn
(10:20:31 PM) Elkad: 20min left anyway
(10:20:35 PM) me: i gotta do a few things first
(10:20:58 PM) Elkad: Ind comes in at the flip, right?
(10:21:02 PM) me: yes
(10:21:08 PM) Elkad: yay, tanks
(10:22:51 PM) me: man i'm pissed about that boating
(10:23:00 PM) Elkad: yeah
(10:23:23 PM) Elkad: I miscounted a stupid transport's moves when I attacked dsp earlier
(10:23:34 PM) Elkad: well, actually I jsut attacked in the wrong order
(10:23:38 PM) Elkad: and it couldn't move up to the city
(10:23:48 PM) Elkad: could have taken his island
(10:24:23 PM) Elkad: instead I had to wait and he upgraded troops..
(10:24:38 PM) me: now he'll probably reinforce that city
(10:24:45 PM) me: though i don't know why he has just one pike in there now
(10:24:54 PM) me: maybe he doesn't realize i can see his cities?
(10:24:58 PM) me: or doesn't think i can get there?
(10:25:00 PM) Elkad: same reason some of the stuff on my west coast is completely empty..
(10:25:16 PM) me: but he's known i migiht be coming after him
(10:25:18 PM) me: he said so in his email
(10:25:30 PM) Elkad: dunno
(10:25:43 PM) Elkad: I'd been at war with dsp for 3t when he didn't upgrade those archers
(10:25:52 PM) Elkad: the transport was nav2 and where he could see it..
(10:26:10 PM) Elkad: so I got to burn 2 cities cause he counted wrong or something
(10:26:15 PM) me: yeah
(10:27:49 PM) me: i need more seige
(10:27:56 PM) Elkad: lol, so does shady
(10:28:02 PM) Elkad: 2 arty for a 30unit stack?
(10:28:57 PM) Elkad: granted I've missed all the big wars on the other side of the map, but the stacks sure seem small here
(10:29:15 PM) me: yeah we had some good ones v. exploit
(10:29:31 PM) me: gotta remember most of us aren't used to much MP
(10:29:39 PM) Elkad: one game I was in recently, there was a 3civ alliance pushing about 350 rifles around in a pile
(10:32:25 PM) Elkad: don't forget to offer Ind when you flip, so I can start builds this turn
(10:32:30 PM) me: well i guess i'll end turn
(10:37:49 PM) me: turnflippe
(10:38:01 PM) Elkad: ok
(10:38:19 PM) me: that's the 2nd time this game i've swapped out of OR and lost a missionary build in mid built
(10:38:45 PM) Elkad: oh, it would have finished this turn?
(10:38:49 PM) me: don't think so
(10:39:31 PM) Elkad: hmm, if you put it back in, do the hammers come back?
(10:39:35 PM) me: i think os
(10:39:42 PM) me: it shows up as 22/40 in the build queue
(10:39:56 PM) Elkad: I know if you knock a spear out of the queue and then invent pikes, you lose the partial hammers
(10:40:03 PM) Elkad: but if you leave it in, it just changes the build order
(10:40:42 PM) me: seems like plenty of aluminum around
(10:40:49 PM) me: you have 1 @ utica
(10:41:12 PM) Elkad: theres only one hill there IIRC..
(10:41:16 PM) Elkad: S of it?
(10:41:22 PM) me: y
(10:41:28 PM) me: told me i had 2 but i can't find the other one
(10:41:43 PM) me: ah on that ilsnad
(10:41:44 PM) Elkad: probably under a town..
(11:34:44 PM) me: good luck! i'm counting on you


---


(2:00:36 PM) me: hey there
(3:11:43 PM) me: there?
(3:11:49 PM) Elkad: hi
(3:11:53 PM) me: what's going on
(3:12:23 PM) Elkad: not much
(3:12:33 PM) me: did you end up attacking shady's stack?
(3:12:38 PM) Elkad: nope
(3:12:49 PM) me: oh
(3:13:25 PM) me: sign peace with him?
(3:13:52 PM) Elkad: not at the moment
(3:14:31 PM) me: i guess i'm confused then
(3:18:43 PM) me: (this is the part where you're supposed to enlighten my confusion )
(3:18:50 PM) Elkad: yeah well
(3:19:03 PM) Elkad: it will all become clear soon..
(3:19:13 PM) me: in a bad way for me, i fear?
(3:19:41 PM) Elkad: something like that
(3:21:00 PM) me: you're welcome for industrialism i guess?
(3:21:47 PM) Elkad: yup, thanks
(3:22:11 PM) Elkad: I suspect the pot is about to get stirred by several other people as well
(3:22:37 PM) Elkad: your discussion of a NAP with shady at the same time you were promising me aid had a lot to do with it
(3:23:31 PM) Elkad: I've had a lot of promises that led nowhere. A deal with shady had direct immediate benefits, startign with getting some of my land back
(3:23:49 PM) me: well (not that i'm expecting this to change anything) when nobody will work with you, you tend to throw out ideas to everyone
(3:23:59 PM) me: (which is kind of what you're up against too)
(3:25:02 PM) me: i don't hold it against you for turning and working with shady
(3:25:10 PM) me: i am a little annoyed about being conned into giving you indu
(3:25:16 PM) me: but i guess that goes with the terirtory
(3:25:28 PM) Elkad: yeah, I did some dancing there..
(3:25:30 PM) me: one is never able to see things clearly in the heat of the moment
(3:26:00 PM) Elkad: I was well aware you were finishing it. the deal with shady was done the same time I made peace with TT, I just misled you to make sure I got the tech
(3:26:16 PM) Elkad: when he moved the stack away I thought the game was up
(3:26:25 PM) me: guess we see what we want to see.....
(3:26:54 PM) me: it's a bit ironic since i just declared war and was hoping to actually give you some of that aid that has been promised for so long
(3:26:58 PM) me: and give you back that land
(3:27:07 PM) me: but i understand if you didn't want to wait for that "2 in the bush"
(3:28:18 PM) me: so should i expect anyone else to join this party?
(3:28:18 PM) me: TT?
(3:28:22 PM) me: Broker? Lins? Munro?
(3:28:37 PM) Elkad: honestly, I don't know
(3:29:16 PM) me: don't know? or don't want to tell me
(3:29:24 PM) Elkad: don't know
(3:29:38 PM) Elkad: I haven't even spoken to munro or lins in weeks
(3:30:05 PM) Elkad: broker keeps promising me artillery that never shows up..
(3:30:29 PM) me: lol
(3:30:33 PM) me: i know
(3:30:38 PM) me: and i know i've been guilty of that too
(3:30:47 PM) me: just sucks that when i was finally coming, it was too late....
(3:33:24 PM) Elkad: anyway, I need to run
(3:33:28 PM) me: ok
(3:33:36 PM) me: i assume you're fairly committed to this attack
(3:33:38 PM) me: at least for awhile?
(3:33:45 PM) me: i can offer you more of shady's land than he can :-D
(3:34:05 PM) Elkad: well, I'm not fond of this "pick off the biggest guy" and repeat strategy in the game as a whole
(3:34:19 PM) me: so what would it take for you to gracefully exit this
(3:34:31 PM) me: (and i'd put myself at 3rd biggest anyways)
(3:34:37 PM) Elkad: dunno. obviously I'll be in a treaty for 10t
(3:35:03 PM) Elkad: but I was seriously considering stirring the pot by doing something crazy
(3:35:11 PM) me: like what?
(3:35:19 PM) Elkad: sending a token force your way and then amphibiously attacking broker or something
(3:35:24 PM) me: hahaha
(3:35:28 PM) me: that would be awesome
(3:36:33 PM) Elkad: anyway, I've no intentions of stripping my cities. if nothing else, I've got -15 to -21 draft unhappiness all over
(3:36:50 PM) me: anyways if you gotta run that's fine - we can talk later. i tried to come up with a way to say i felt bad about not helping you before but i coudln't figure out a way to do it without soundling like a jerk who is only in it from me
(3:36:57 PM) me: and only cares because now i'm in trouble
(3:37:10 PM) me: i can totally undersand your position
(3:37:19 PM) Elkad: if you'd been about 3t sooner (or if dsp had waited 3 more turns to leave)..
(3:37:30 PM) Elkad: then without Twinkle to stir the pot..
(3:37:30 PM) me: well i couldn't attack till t215
(3:37:38 PM) me: i had 10turns cooldown agreement that i gave on t205
(3:37:47 PM) me: but i could have been planning it with you
(3:37:51 PM) me: but honestly i didn't knwo what way to go
(3:37:55 PM) me: all i really want is security
(3:37:57 PM) me: i don't care for warring
(3:38:01 PM) Elkad: yeah well at some point you have to backstab allies and burn their IW and HE cities
(3:38:11 PM) me: i guess
(3:38:14 PM) Elkad: that guy didn't play with me for a year
(3:38:17 PM) me: heh
(3:38:26 PM) me: this culture (RB PB) is interesting
(3:38:28 PM) me: i'm used to Diplomacy
(3:38:34 PM) me: which has a much more understanding view of backstabs
(3:38:39 PM) me: i mean they still suck (when they happen to you)
(3:38:43 PM) me: but it's just an agreed part of the game
(3:38:53 PM) Elkad: right
(3:38:53 PM) me: here it doesn't seem to be like that, at least not for most people
(3:39:00 PM) Elkad: I dunno, this is an odd group
(3:39:01 PM) me: and so you run a big risk if you want to do something like that
(3:39:04 PM) me: yeah
(3:39:18 PM) Elkad: tactical gamer crowd tends to stick to alliances till the end
(3:39:31 PM) Elkad: this group just keeps bandwagoning the leader
(3:39:56 PM) me: yeah that seems to be how it's going, in each game
(3:40:07 PM) Elkad: ahh, i'm not watching the other games
(3:40:11 PM) me: same thign happened in pb2
(3:40:14 PM) me: pb3 is too early still
(3:40:22 PM) me: speaker and sullla got out to a huge lead and then got 5v1'd
(3:40:24 PM) Elkad: I was spoilered on #2 for a while, so I didn't take a spot there when some people left
(3:40:28 PM) me: (and won, btw )
(3:40:49 PM) Elkad: some of the stuff is just crazy tho, you guys put too much effort into this
(3:41:00 PM) me: well for me, i'm not very good at civ
(3:41:02 PM) me: because i play too fast
(3:41:07 PM) Elkad: I'm used to playing with our custom mods that kill the scoreboard and demographics screens
(3:41:13 PM) me: games like this let (make) me go a lot slower
(3:41:20 PM) me: yeah i think they're doign that in pbem2
(3:41:24 PM) me: okay i gotta run too
(3:41:25 PM) me: ttyl
(3:41:36 PM) Elkad: reading some of those spoilers about figuring out how many forests someone has, based on the demo screen, etc..
(3:41:38 PM) Elkad: bleh..
(3:41:39 PM) me: heh
(3:41:41 PM) me: that's me :-D
(3:41:41 PM) Elkad: too much math for me
(3:41:58 PM) Elkad: my prior owner did it in this one
(3:42:09 PM) Elkad: later

[scooter]

Are you going to accept the peace that TT offered? And what's your opinion on how the diplomacy scene has unfolded the last few turns?

[regoarrarr]

Are you going to accept the peace that TT offered? And what's your opinion on how the diplomacy scene has unfolded the last few turns?

Yes - shady is going to send me a white peace when he logs in which I will accept.

I've got a few more thoughts on diplo which I will expound here in a bit - I'm in mid post about something else

Still - I will take every excuse I can to thread-spam!! That's why you love me, right?