Dave Taste Tests Some Russian Wines

[oledavy]

Turn 24

I finally get my pantheon next turn, third one in the game. I don't think I can beat Nic to religion, but I should be able to beat Ichabod. Even with his head start (and saving 3 faith by getting an earlier pantheon), I can outpace him 5 faith (not immedietly, but soon) to 2 each turn unless he builds a lot more shrines. The big unknown here is Stonehenge. If someone is building it, it's HAK or Yuri, which would introduce another religious player into the game.  

Anyway, to answer the question I posed: 



My other neighbor researched mining, but it doesn't reduce the threshold below what you have already researched. More adept planning with this information in mind might have saved me a science here, but eh, c'est la vie. Now we know. 



As expected, I got attacked in the north. I want them to keep attacking me and taking more damage. So, I took the rough terrain promotion, and fortified for a now +80% combat boost. Attacking me unfortified, without the promotion, they did 45 hp of damage between them, exactly what I will have at the end of this turn, so I expect I can survive. I just hope they don't both attack, I retreat, and the healthier one pursues. That might kill me. We're going to be optimistic for now though. A chariot archer will be up here soon enough to help.  

In the south: 



The barb in the camp was attacked or attacked out at someone. I'm keeping an eye on that for now. One less ranged attack to deliver from my second city when it gets settled.  

On that note, wine suggestions for my second city? I'm leaning towards Pinot Noir at the moment, but I could be swayed.

[oledavy]

Turn 25

Pretty big turn, as far as early game turns go. I'll post after this with my t25 round-up for the lurkers. For now, what made the turn so good?

Biggest news, we got Goddess of Festivals:



Combined with finishing the pasture, Chardonnay's yields are now looking better



The worker is going to improve the northwest wines next, and get that happy online.  

Abroad, Yuri completed Stonehenge. Nic and Ichabod now have second cities (more on that in a moment).  

As far as religion goes, I assume Nic took Legalism from free steles. If that is true, he's going to be very hard to beat to first religion. Even though I'm not working all my wines at the moment (and won't be for a few turns yet), I still feel safe in saying I should be able to beat Ichabod to a religion, since he's only making 2 faith per turn at the moment and will have to get more shrines up to increase the amount. 

This means my primary competitor for second religion (presuming I can't beat Nic to first) is Yuri with Stonehenge. He's now making 5 faith per turn, but has yet to found a pantheon. This means his first chance at a prophet will come about 30 turns out, on t54. My objective now becomes to accumulate 133 faith before that point. It should be close, but will ultimately come down to RNG more than anything else. Still, I can stack the deck in my favor as much as possible and make sure I have the only religion on this continent for quite some time.  

Maybe Pindicator will like some missionaries...especially because I doubt he's feeling charitable to Ichabod at the moment:



As expected, Ichabod shoved his super early collective rule settler into the middle of the map.  I can't really fault him, I would do the same were I going liberty. I'm just really glad he did not settle on the hill to the northeast, as it would have invalidated by planned second city on the marsh. The city is significantly closer to my capital than to his, but had he settled inland like I did, his city would be at approximately the halfway point between us. 

Even had he settled inland, however, it is still closer to Pindicator's capital than it is to Persepolis. If this is an aggressive settle against anyone, it's Pindi. Had he the gold, he could in theory even claim Pindicator's desert gold.  I expect Pindi will be pretty annoyed at this, especially since he went liberty too. the geography of the center makes the city basically impossible for me to assault from the east, but it can be approached more easily from the south. I expect this to be a flash point later in the game. But for now, possession is 90% of the law. 

When I settle my city, I'll have to debate with myself if I want to buy the grassland hill gold, the bananas, or neither. Leaning towards the gold at the moment, especially since I'll need to stagnate growth for a couple turns. It will quickly pay itself off. That's assuming Ichabod doesn't buy it first of course. He has enough gold banked to buy a single tile, but he may choose to save his money considering how razor thin of an edge his GPT is on.  

I wish my second city could be more defensibly planted, but it's impossible to do that and put it on the river. Putting it south or west of the river dramatically decreases the city's long-term strength. That being said, it won't be indefensible, and if sparks are flying between my neighbors, it won't really matter.  

I'm strongly considering a round of military after my second settler and granary/watermill. Both to take KL earlier than planned and to dissuade my neighbors if they are feeling adventurous with their early UUs

Final notes:



My southern scout is still healing. My scout near Chardonnay is in position to escort the settler. The brute to the south posted no additional damage, so I guess the attack to or from the encampment was a one-off. I pledged to protect Wellington. My warrior got attacked once, by the higher health brute. Perfect. I'm in good shape to stay fortified and continue whittling them down. The wheel finishes this turn along with settler, chariot archer next.

[oledavy]

I asked for a picture of where people settled in the round up just in case someone has not realized the starts aren't mirrored yet.  

The Russian Empire - Turn 25

1. Settled inland, next to the two forests. 
2. Four ruins: population -> gold (90, iirc) -> map -> population
3. Builds: scout -> scout -> monument -> shrine -> worker -> settler (finished on t25).
4. Tradition: Opener -> Oligarchy -> Legalism

If lurkers want to guilt others into posting that would be great. Otherwise I expect we'll just get data from me, Yuri, and Ichabod.

[oledavy]

Turn 26

Moved the settler out this turn, started on a chariot archer.



Chose to work a plains wine over the stone. It doesn't delay my chariot archer or settler and 3 culture, 3 faith, 6 gold > 3 hammers (earnings difference over the next three turns)

My warrior in the north didn't get attacked this turn, and is fortified and healing. I'm moving my southern scout back from Almaty to cover my worker when I go to improve the gold. 

Wheel done, now onto calendar, then mining. I'm building up quite a bit of science overflow. Ichabod researched trapping. I'm debating if I want to double draft off them and go to trapping first or do bronze working first to find out where iron is. Then again, I don't think it will dramatically alter where I put my next two cities....so I might as well try and let Ichabod/Pin research BW for me first. 

 

Ichabod settled his third city, and immediately bought the truffles tile. This is pretty good for me, since I now don't have to worry about him buying the gold or bananas in the middle of the map. I can buy them or acquire them at my leisure with natural cultural growth. I think despite settling after him, with an automatic monument and the tradition opener, I should be able to acquire my first tile before him. Here's hoping the tile picker chooses the banana.

Ichabod improved a second cotton.  

I think Yuri got collective rule and settled a second city. Either that or Nic's capital hit size 5.  

I'm starting to get worried about Pindicator. He's really slow to start here.

[oledavy]

Turn 27

Photobucket acting up, so a pictureless report for today.

The camp south of my capital spawned a barb archer, and Pindicator's scout appeared. This could be an issue in getting Pinot Noir settled. I moved cautiously, hopefully Pindicator doesn't try to screw with me. 

My scout near Almaty found a barb camp to the north. I had planned on looping him around to the northwest, but the camp blocks him. Time to come back to Chardonnay I suppose.

My warrior in the north continues to heal, my worker started on the plantation.  

Internationally, Yuri founded a pantheon (Religious Idols). Seems the game is on. I don't think I can beat him to first religion since he took an extra faith pantheon. If he settled his second city for gold, he's probably pulling in +6 FPT to my +3 at the moment, and I only have a 6 faith head start. Not looking promising short of an amazing RNG break in my favor. I may edit my plan and not emphasize shrines early if I am not going to be able to land 1st or 2nd religion. 

I didn't notice last turn, but Ichabod settled Susa on Cotton, so that's why he has 2. I guess the worker improved something else. Pindicator improved his horse. Still waiting for him to get a 2nd city down. Ichabod's MFG is ridiculous right now from Republic and stagnating all his cities in unhappiness.

I'm finishing mining this turn. Someone helpfully researched BW for me. I still think I'll continue to draft and go trapping first though. After trapping and bronze working...I'm not sure. Maybe mathematics for HG (although it may be quite some time before I can go for it). Construction is probably the best option. Writing -> Drama and Poetry would allow me to get a free Amphitheater, but the building is pretty awful. 

I think however, I will probably end up going sailing -> optics, and begin work on exploring those outer islands. Maybe I get a faith ruins and I stay competitive for 1st religion. You never know.

[oledavy]

Turn 28

I got attacked by the archer, Pindicator's scout disappeared to the west. Next turn, my 2nd city will be settled.



Chariot archer also out next turn. 

I realized I could use the tourism screen to track people's culture.



I can track cultural production if I really want to. I don't know enough of the numbers to track when people are about the adopt social policies beyond the first four (with a single city). However, I can tell you that Pindicator will adopt collective rule next turn. 

I've been thinking a lot about BNW's change, increasing technology cost 5% with each city, and about T-Hawk and Sullla's comments on this. I don't think it's as big of a downside in MP, where victories other than conquest are unlikely. People are just going to grow until they hit a desired powerspike and then try to run over all their opposition. To this end, while extra cities will hurt in the long run, if the extra gold/production from them in the meantime allows you to leverage a commensurate or greater military advantage, then I would generally say its worth it to settle more cities. Obviously there is a point of diminishing returns, however. 

All this being said, if Civ5 MP continues on RB after this game, I would like to look into modding this BNW feature out (and maybe a few more changes while we're at it...)

[oledavy]

Turn 29

Huzzah! A new city has been settled.  



I decided the gold tile was more important, particularly because otherwise I would be stagnating growth on a desert gold and giving up two hammers. The tile cost 40 gold. Acquiring the banana will cost me 45 gold. Thankfully, I will have that much in three turns. Ichabod doesn't have enough to buy it at the moment, and, unless he naturally acquires it in that time, I'll get to have my cake and eat it. I also really want the tile to control the land between Pinot Noir and Pasagadae, to make it harder for him to attack me. 

Settling pushed me into unhappiness for a turn. Next turn, the plantation completes (it would have completed this turn had Pin not delayed me with his scout.), and we'll be back off to the races. The extra gold from the plantation will also put me closer to buying the banana. The net loss from -6% production is a little less than a hammer between both cities. Crucially, the loss will not delay my second settler.

My scout is healing in the city, giving the city +50% ranged attack while he's at it to expedite the plinking down barbarians process. Also, I save gold from having him there.  The Chariot Archer completed and is heading north to clear things out up there.  

Monarchy comes in in 3 turns. I would prefer landed elite, but the happiness and gold are more crucial right now. I'm wondering if the happiness discount applies on even or odd numbered population. I guess I'll find that out soon. No though, between monarchy and my worker mining the gold, I should be over the hump and ready to start growing Chardonnay at a breakneck pace. I want to get it up to 8 pop and beyond as soon as possible. After the settler, I will be building a granary and watermill. At that point, I will be positioned to either go into military, wonders or workers, depending on how things are looking. 

I don't think I'll have to build any happy buildings for quite some time. Between my three cities, I will have native access to four unique luxuries: wines, truffles, furs, gold. As soon as I get a couple more wines improved, I can trade with Pindicator and Ichabod for their calendar resources. That's 24 happiness right there, enough for 3 cities and 15 pop, not even including the monarchy bonus which will be really huge for me. 

Pindicator took Collective rule as expected. I'm expecting his second city within the next few turns. 

Anyway, glad to finally get my second city settled, and thrilled I got to put it where I wanted. The game plan is going pretty well thus far. 

I'm at point wondering where I want to go for my second social policy tree. I don't think I'll be medieval by that point for commerce. 

Good job on the center of the map Chumchu. I expect Pindicator's settle will be between his capital and the center, so this will likely end up being the flashpoint on our continent, without conferring a game winning advantage to Ichabod for getting there first.

[T-hawk]

I'm wondering if the happiness discount applies on even or odd numbered population.

It's not either in particular. The game tracks unhappiness with decimals, so size 7 is 3.5 unhappy.

With no other decimal modifiers in play, the discount essentially applies on odd numbered pop, since any remaining decimal gets truncated. But if you have other sources of fractional unhappiness (which includes the per-city penalty on some map sizes), there may be no real pattern.

[oledavy]

Turn 30

Nothing terribly exciting, either at home or abroad. 

The archer moved north, so I finished him off this turn to protect my worker. I had to delay the chariot moving north towards the camp to do it, but it shouldn't delay my third city.  



Pindicator's spearman came to have a look at things.  

Ichabod hooked up Truffles.



My other neighbor researched BW, so I get the full discount on that. 4 turns until I find out where the iron is! 2 turns to monarchy.

[oledavy]

Turns 31-35

Been a few days, I've been off in Civ6 land for the most part + a friend's birthday weekend.  

Highlights:

 - Adopted Monarchy
 - Finished second settler, started granary in the capital.
 - Bought the bananas tile.
 - Ichabod up to 5 cities, Pindicator at 3
 - Stealing worker from KL next turn
 - Both barb camps now cleared, but lost a warrior doing it   That's a setback.
 - For some reason, only XP earned on my chariot archer is applying for GG points... I'm not quite sure what's going on there. 
 - Other scout is healing up before exploring the northeast. Hoping to send both scouts out into the ocean when I get optics.  
 - Currently researching sailing, finished BW. 1 Iron secure in the northeast, 1 between me and Ichabod neither of us have secured yet, one between KL and Pin that he secured. 
 - Ichabod offered his 2nd cotton for my 1st wines. I accepted the deal just to lock down an important resource trade and build up goodwill early. Turned out, being charitable to Ichabod was a good call. Wellington put out a quest for wines, that I will get to fulfill in afew turns after I finish mining the gold. The free food will nicely coincide with the capital finishing granary/watermill and unlocking landed elite. 

The game plan outlined early in this thread continues apace, and I remain optimistic about my chances in this game. 

I'm currently playing Civ4 MP, Civ 5 MP, and Civ 6 SP, and I have to say, it's really interesting to reflect on how the game has changed between iterations over the years.

Anyway, we'll be back to our regularly scheduled programming tomorrow. 

Any questions?