RBP3 [Spoilers] Capac of Mali

[Swiss Pauli]

Turn 58: Daniel has taken over turnplay for now as the diplo is getting very time consuming.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Swiss to ds & broker:

Just remember that we agreed to spend 43EPs on England and logged in to change assigment to 3 to Cartage and 1 to England. Nearly made a massive blooper there!

More diplo going on as I type...


On 4 March 2010 18:55, Swiss wrote:

I've posted up the full exchange on the forum, but the gist of it is that Krill might land Oracle as T58 rolls over. I did some rough calcs this morning and came up with T62 as the latest date.

If Krill lands the Oracle next turn, then it's back to 'business as usual'. As I wrote to Kittens & Co. we should try to get a couple of chariots out ASAP, but we need Babylon to update on tech situation to know how urgent this might be. Hope they can update tonight.

Even if Oracle isn't completed next turn, it may fall before we move our workers to chop. So maybe it would be better for Marianne to road the cows rather than the forest? Is that tile close enough to move to Sirian to chop?

If Oracle is still possible, another alternative for Jerry & Bianca is to cottage the grass tile 1N of the tile Bianca is about to finish cottaging. I think they should be able to finish this before heading to chop (but not 100%).

Last, and defintely least, Jarry (Hall) is a lady

Swiss


On 4 March 2010 17:46, Swiss wrote:

Thanks again for taking over the turnplay!

C&D work from the Kittens has Krill landing the Oracle next turn, so it looks like we might miss out. We'll need to keep a close eye on the turnlog.

I'll post up the latest diplo stuff when I get home in half an hour.

Swiss


On 4 March 2010 17:24, Daniel wrote:

Keef skirts Carthage's borders and doesn't find much new of interest. Mick moves SW onto a hill, next to a Wolf. Off to the south he can see some yellowish or orange-ish borders, which looks like Jowy's color. Barb warrior shows up SE of Sirian, Brian moves back in that direction. Charlie stays put N of Uberfish.

Road on Pasture by Blake and Cottage N of Uberfish are finished. Cottage N of Sirian will finish next turn.

Target date for finishing Priesthood is turn 66 (although it might be turn 67). We should be able to whip a Barracks on turn 65 with sufficient overflow that (combined with 3 chops) we can finish the Oracle in one turn.

Current research on Meditation is 112/144, 70% research at -2 gold/turn and +16 beakers/turn.

Jerry can build a road on the forest NW of Uberfish, or put 3 turns into a farm (or Cottage) on the FP NE of Uberfish, before he has to head towards a forest to chop. Which should he do? Another option is to chop the forest NW of Uberfish for the Monument, but to do that in time would require Bianca to come help him, which would mean an extra worker-turn would be wasted moving onto the forest.

I think Marianne should build a road on the forest 1E of Blake before heading off to chop the Oracle.

Daniel

Worker micro is obviously a bit tricky atm with all the will he, won't he debate over the Oracle

[Swiss Pauli]

Chat with Babylon, the key points being:

Very frustrating that Byzantium is insisting on researching IW Gotta hope they can be persuaded to research something else.

Sumeria delayed Alpha to get Hunting: definitely a wise move.

We're going to claim that Babs & Byz are not getting on; similarly, we'll pretend to be stand-offish with the French.

Tried to disuade Babs from attacking Eng at this stage:

19:44 Kyan: hey
one sec mate
19:45 im not 'set' on attacking england per sé
it's more that i fact we could do significant damge
*damage
and that's one of their major players out- england have started very well and have minimal defences
if you want to divert all forces south then ill go with that
19:46 me: too many assumptions about england
and early warfare only really benefits if you can knock em out
19:47 so what's sumeria's eta on alpha?
Kyan: ok fair enough
t75 i believe
they are on it now
19:48 me: And the Indian attack?
does he have their graphs?
19:49 *indian attack in sumeria
Kyan: sumeria does
he knows they dont have copper yet
19:50 me: copper, schmopper: horses are key
at this stage
and I'll bet Sumeria lacks hunting
19:51 Kyan: nope
they delayed alphabet to get it
me: cool
then we're in much less trouble
19:53 How are the othre techs lining up?
Kyan: sorry it says ur offline to me lol
i couldnt msg you after i dc'd
19:54 me: I'm invisble: hiding from DIM!
Kyan: inca wont be able to contribute a tech obviously
they're just grinding out axemen
me: Assuming we lose Oracle then you could grab MC
19:55 seeing as Sumeria has hunting
Kyan: metal casting is certainly attractive to us
and you obv
byz seem to want to continue with IW
which i think is silly
me: do we know what rome is researching for sure?
19:56 Kyan: yes
exploit confirmed
me: cos it's well silly in that case
no trade value
Kyan: yup
me: then try to get them onto HBR
19:57 or MC
Kyan: how about: mali: monarchy, maya: alphabet, byz: HBR, babylon: metal casting (will save gold first tho so can rush anything at a push), sumeria: alpha obv, inca: WAR
me: if that makes them feel better
Maya; maths!
Kyan: dammit
i typo that everytime
i MEAN maths
but my fingers type alpha
19:58 me: like when a lady says no she means...
Kyan: you guys should be psychic
XACTLY
*e
19:59 me: How does the map look btw?
Kyan: the maya one?
me: sorry: civ placement
20:00 Kyan: bleh i cant remember where it is right now
but we got it right in the end
just egypt and korea we're unsure of
me: don't sweat it
Kyan: which is north of which
me: aye
Kyan: exploit confirmed they're south of india
20:01 so either north of byz or north of that spot (which is where korea used to be)
actually.. hmm.
me: south? we had them west
of sumeria
Kyan: Egypt must be north of byz
because they wiped out korea early days
20:02 if they had sent their warrior south (which they would have had to do to find korea), their warrior would have carried on exploring and found us guys
it's possible he pulled a u turn
but unlikely
so more likely he scouted north first and then carried on
me: sorry sumeria confirmed who were south of india?
Kyan: which fits with him allying with the guys there
Egypt
i think top row is:
me: sorry thought at first it was sumeria in that spot
20:03 Kyan: england france egypt ottomans carthage
carthage and ottomans could be other way round but im sure you could confirm that?
20:04 me: eng are east of carthage
Ottomans allegedly west of HRE
20:05 Kyan: ill make a new map
sec
20:06 me: India /Aztecs/ Inca /Rome/ Sum
(Korea)/ Otto/ HRE / Portu
Egypt/ Carth / Engl /France /
Maya / Mali / Babylon / Byz
Desssssssssssssssssssssssert
20:09 Kyan: one minute
me: np
Kyan: trying to collate about 20 descriptions lol
20:12 ok
i think this is it:
DESERT

INCA ROME SUMERIA INDIA AZTEC

HRE PORTUGAL KOREA OTTOMANS

ENGLAND FRANCE EGYPT CARTHAGE

MALI BABYLON BYZANTINE MAYA

DESERT
not everyone will be directly E-W, N-S etc. they will be staggered
20:13 but i think that's the general principle
me: Looks good to me
20:14 nearly screwed up with eps v england
20:15 would have gone over the agreed 43
which would have looked really dodgy
Kyan: yeah haha
i better check ours actually
we've been on them awhile
me: when it would have just been stupid
forgetfulness
Kyan: now you've worried me
20:17 heh we're fine
they have all their points on us also tho
me: they finished with us a while ago
so they know who their rivals are
20:18 Kyan: indeed
they know we'll be upset when we find out their group is rejecting us (if it indeed is!)
it's quite unsecure for them, especially if we get France
tho their group has already met France- albeit moaned about them rather a lot
20:19 me: Same from HRE about France
Kyan: do you have any email proof of their spreading of maliciousness about france by the way?
me: Maybe their roleplaying De Gualle
Kyan: would be useful leverage
me: chat-log
Kyan: doubt it. Morgan, DMOC and raskolnikov are playing them
me: they're not their
schollboy eror
Kyan: rasko and morgan play loads of pitboss games. All experienced MP vet's
i let it slide
20:20 tho my missus spelt purse as 'purce' earlier. it upset me. lol.
me: and i loathe the pluralizing apostrophe
20:21 Kyan: who doesn't?
me: the dutch apparently
Kyan: yeah, i had to check that...
me: according to my boss
who's dutch
20:22 will fwd you the chatlog
with HRE
we should pretend to be wary of the French
Kyan: okay
20:23 i forgot to email england yesterday chasing them up
me: and maybe fib to eng that they're giving us a hard time
20:24 Kyan: oo that could be genius
us and byz are having border disputes
they aren't happy with leviticus but we've claimed it anyway
20:25 therefore it's much more important us and Mali find out ASAP about whether we can join their bloc
also explains away our rising power
20:27 me: sounds good to me
20:28 Kyan: ill write it now and cc you in
20:29 me: HRE chat forwarded
20:30 Kyan: thanks
20:34 sent
20:36 me: cool!
bye for now
Kyan: take care swiss
me: good luck in convincing byz on tech!
Kyan: thanks lol

[Swiss Pauli]

Babylon email to England:

Hello Avalon,

We understand your decision not to join our group for trading. In fact, i feel this may have been a very wise decision!

I appreciate you promised to put forward word on us and Mali to the leaders of your group however time is now of the essence. The 'group' of 4 has now fractured due to border disputes between ourselves and Byz.

Long story short, there have been heated discussions regarding our most recent city of Leviticus. It is nearer our capital than theirs but they feel it claims two food resources that should rightfully be theirs.

Fun times!

It is therefore imperative that we (Babylon and Mali) know whether we would be even considered for your alliance as soon as possible. I appreciate you are on your way to a meeting with the leaders but you already have contact with Carthage who you confirmed to be members and i presume HRE are also. Can you please speak to them both or forward this message on and give us some idea where we stand?

We are both strong researchers (I believe Babylon are currently #2 in the game, and we have academy soon as you know) and are willing to do what needs to be done to make this work. Judging by the huge activity on the forums, all teams are pretty active here so i don't think it's asking too much to at least get an indication.

As a symbol of our peaceful intent, perhaps we could look at a NAP or similar?

Your friends,

Kyan
Kysit's Periwinkles


(Mali are CC'd in also as this directly affect them)

[Swiss Pauli]

I've changed my mind about France, and now feel that the Hydra is setting us up. In the chat, I'm 'me' and Paul is Broker:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Friendly Kittens to Mali, Babylon and Byzantium:

I agree. They have clearly been trying to make it 9v7 from what I've
heard. Rome said no, Inca aparently said no? Who does that leave? If
you're France and don't know any of us what do you do?

On 3/5/10, Babylon wrote:
> A chat between Broker and Swiss talking about whether the French thing is
> all a big trick.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
>
>
> Paul: no oracle yet is good news
> 22:25 me: certainly not bad news though
> i think i've got some of that
> i may be paranoid
> but I think we're being set-up
> 22:26 over france being unaligned
> Had a chat with Kyan and he said
> that inca thinks france is in the othre group
> 22:27 the badmouthing by HRE
> is a fib: telling us what we want to hear
> i.e. that it can be 8 v 8
> 22:28 surely there's no way they could have upset everyone they met
> 22:29 when they know how important diplo will be
> 22:31 Paul: Rego is in the other group right?
> He and sunrise know first hand what a mistake it is to create a group out
> of even numbers or less than half
> I would be surprised the repeated the mistake
> 22:32 me: exactly
> and explains why no others have been approached to become player 9
> in their alliance
> Paul: Right
> 22:33 me: so how about we feed some misinformation to France?
> 22:34 my idea would be a fastmover attack against Eng on t76
> Us, Babs & France to strike from 3 directions
> Paul: get them paranoid
> 22:35 other choice is to act really disorganized
> Although we must assume we are on the losing side of a 9v7 or 10 v6
> me: think we're doing a good job on that atm
> Paul: Thier advantage will be actuall military specailist
> 22:36 Not enough tech for everyone even with a finance civ to tech
> me: yeah, we're light on MP guys
> Paul: If the attack on aztec goes well we wil be ok I think that will
> really shake up thier plans
> 22:37 I would think with 9 civs and this is just how I would plan it
> 4 techers, 3 cash 2 military
> military harrasses techers on other side
> 22:38 me: yep.looks like the way it'll go down
> Paul: with 7 we will have to go 4 tech, 2 cash 1 military to just have a
> chance
> if aztec was one of thier military and get hamstrung we are even again
> 22:39 although alittle tighter on cash
> 22:40 me: we have more fin civs though
> which should help a bit
> Paul: If aztec was a cash or a techer may even be more damaging
> me: early enough to swap roles though
> 22:41 Paul: havent thought that through but first thing we need to do is
> identify military civs and anyone bordering them have sufficient defense
> then target a techer or fincial civ for attack
> 22:42 old sun tsu... hit them where they are weak
> EDIT
> 22:45 me: Hard to spot military guys at this stage: cardboard cutouts all
> round
> 22:46 Paul: we will know by who discovers techs and who has low gnp
> 22:48 me: GNP being horribly distorted by culture and binary research atm
> Paul: true
> 22:49 didnt say it was easy
>

[Swiss Pauli]

Follow up chat with Babylon:

22:49
me: back from dinner

Kyan: hey pal

sorry i dc'd earlier and cos you're pretend offline, i can't reinstigate the convo
22:50
me: that time i really was offline

Kyan: haha fair enough

i read your msg re: france ?

me: will send you a chat I'm having with broker (paul)

one sec...

Kyan: ok matey
22:55
did you grab poly or meditation btw?

me: medi so we can trade it to you

for a philo grab

Kyan: <3
22:56
me: :bleurgh:

so am i being overly paranoid about france?
22:57
Kyan: possibly gimme a sec im halfway thru
22:58
i think that you're being mildly paranoid

but we should be careful

you could well be right

but if you ARE wrong- jowy wasnt 100%- he said it was more a hunch

ill try to get the quote now
22:59
JANK: I think the original bloc atleast thinks they have france on their side
but who knows
me: ok mate, that's useful info
ta
JANK: it's just my thoughts
not a confirmation or anything :P
23:00
me: To be fair, I thought England were being a bit off with us

after initial contact, and i was spot onethere

Kyan: agreed

me: * on there
23:02
resent the chat minus the PB1 reference
23:03
can you fwd to our group to get their feedback?

Kyan: of course

and good spot

i just avoid talking about anything to do with those games if i can help it
23:04
me: me: another bit of misinformationwould be to leave out HBR
from our tech trades and ask France to research it
Sent at 22:57 on Friday
Paul: true we need to come up with what disinformation we want to plant and make sure everyone has the same story

this would be a big gambit

because what do we do if they say yes
23:05
Kyan: i dont think we should mention the english attack
23:06
Byz want to attack them

and i dont think its a horrendous idea
23:07
me: well that's a fib to get england to ask for a NAP extension

which will tell us they've been tipped off by the french
23:08
I guess the first thing to do is press france on tech

and take it from there

Kyan: yeah

also, just so you know

Byz will declare war on us in 10 turns or so

and post about turn orders in IT thread
23:09
but, i need to get off mate. im going pub

speak soon

me: enjoy the pub

[Swiss Pauli]

Diplo with England:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Capac Mali to England, cc to Babylon

Dear Lords of Avalon,

Many thanks for your proposal.

We will discuss it within our team, and with Babylon, and give you feedback.

Finally, we regret to inform you that Royal Guard met the grizzly end you feared. May he rest in peace.

Best Wishes,

Emperor Capac

On 6 March 2010 05:36, England To Babylon and Mali:

We have forwarded your request to join our trading group to the HRE, and will get a response soon, although the HRE was skeptical. We would like to propose an extension to our NAPs. Our NAP proposal:
1) An auto-renewing NAP with a 10t cooldown. The earliest the NAP could be canceled is T100. If the NAP is canceled on turn X by one team, then on turn X+10 the other team may declare war. On turn X+11, any team may declare war.
2) 43EP maximum
3) No ROP of units for any civ at war with any of us.
4) Open Borders are allowed for trade route purposes

For settlement rights, the closest city we are planning on settling to any of either team's cities is 4E6N of Uberfish, and other cities directly east (8E6N and 12E6N of Uberfish). These cities are also 8 tiles north of Exodus, and London is 4 tiles north of these cities. No Mali or Babylon city would be allowed 6 tiles or more north of Uberfish, and any settlement that does not overlap more than 1 tile of the BFC of these cities would be fine with us.

If you wish, we can separate the two NAPs, or keep them as a single deal. Cyneheard will be away most of this weekend, but Haphazard1 and Antisocialmunky will be available for chats. Also, Royal Guard, who is next to Uberfish's borders, is likely to be eaten by a bear next turn.

Cyneheard, Haphazard1, Antisocialmunky
Lords of Avalon
Suryavaraman II of England

I'll tell Babylon that we shouldn't extend NAPs until we get an answer about joining their gang.

[Swiss Pauli]

Epic email from Babylon:

[SIZE="6"]REAL UPDATE[/SIZE]

[SIZE="4"]

Plan to Defeat the Hydra

[/SIZE]

(Music to set the tone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Fr4q7TAqgw )

-Byz and Babylon will build up our respective armies. We will tell England it is a bit of a stare-off situation at Leviticus' border if England asks.. In 10 turns, Byzantine will declare war on Babylon. It will appear weird if nothing gets posted in IT thread so they will post there asking for the 2nd half of turn. We will say we're not fussed and won't be making any double moves. They will then concede the point and we'll play without an order. I have primed The Hydra to expect this situation with my diplo.

-I have maintained relations with England. I pretty much begged to be allowed into their group the other day and have requested they forward our joint request (with Mali) to join. I intended to come accross desperate, disorganised and hopeless. England agreed to forward the request but made it clear that they don't think we'll be invited.

I assured them i didn't perceive this as their fault and brought up the topic of a NAP. I fabricated a situation that Byz had threatened to settle aggresively, we had won a settler race and they are now planning to take it by force. I showed us and Mali as close allies (as they know from earlier we were tight and as a believable truth it should make this sound more genuine) and that Maya were remaining neutral. The conditions of the NAP include a land agreement, which i was going to suggest but i was pushing England for their terms hoping they would mention it which thankfully they did.

We have no knowledge of the land between us so England have agreed to provide all scouting info of the region with their key info blacked out. We have scouted the area directly north of ourselves so Whosit can use these maps to formulate a battle plan.

-Sumeria and Inca are all denying having any sort of tech trade lined up with us. This goes for Rome also but none of us have met them yet. Byz will periodically message England and just be generally friendly to avoid suspicion.

-Sumeria is our Alphabet provider and therefore needs protection as he fears an attack from India and another? Portugal? He has requested Rome lend a warrior and we provide 2 chariots. Byz and Maya have both sent their chariots south and we have cross-referenced maps and come up with the following battle-plan:

I would like to propose the following plan of a 3-way joint attack on the Indian city of Karaoke Tuesday on Turn 65.

Karaoke Tuesday is situated on a stone tile and India has masonry so he may be making a play for the Pyramids or is just looking to build walls very fast. Either way it is in our best interest to take this city out first as part of our attack on India. If the attack is successful then there will still be time to attack the Indian city of T-Shirt Contest before it can expand and hook up the copper there. Finally this plan allows for Rome to make contact with both Maya and Byzantines as early as possible.

I have attached a screenshot with signs pointing out the plan below to make it clearer.

Turn 60
Roman Warrior moves SE to roaded forest tile (R60)
Byzantine Chariot moves S to desert hill (B60)
Mayan chariot moves SW to copper tile and then SW again to forest hill (M60)

Turn 61
Roman Warrior moves SE to Bison Pass and then NE to forest hill (R61)
Byzantine Chariot moves SE to desert then SW to flood plain (B61)
Mayan chariot moves NW to desert and then W again to forest hill (M61)

Turn 62
Roman Warrior moves NE to hill (R62)
Byzantine Chariot moves SW twice to flood plain (B62)
Mayan chariot moves W to flood plain and W again to plain (M62). Rome and Maya make contact.

Turn 63
Roman Warrior moves NE to grassland (R63)
Byzantine Chariot moves SW to pig and S to plains (B63). Rome and Byzantine make contact.
Mayan chariot moves SW to grassland and then SW again to hill (M63) (optional move but it lifts more fog for Maya with no delay in plan)

Turn 64
Roman Warrior moves SE to plains declaring war on India (R64)
Byzantine Chariot moves SW to grassland and then SE to plains declaring war on India (B64)
Mayan chariot moves NE to grassland and then SE to plains declaring war on India (M64)

Turn 65
Roman Warrior attacks Karaoke Tuesday
Byzantine Chariot attacks Karaoke Tuesday
Mayan chariot attacks Karaoke Tuesday

A picture for reference:



-Inca will continue it's assault on Aztec and do as much damage as possible. Maybe Rome can help on this front? However, it is fairly vital Rome gets to IW as soon as possible.

-Babylon have sent Reagan our proud axeman south-east to meet Rome, we will liaise with a Sumerian warrior on the way and then probably gift the unit to them or generally assist them or Inca.

[COLOR="Yellow"]-Techs:

Mali: Monarchy
Maya: Maths
Sumeria: Alphabet
Rome: IW
Byz: Masonry then saving gold
Babylon: HBR
Inca: Busy at WAR[/COLOR]

-We will keep Inca up to date with tech. They can make this up at some later date. Remember, by disabling one of the Hydra members, they are greatly assisting us as a group.
[COLOR="Yellow"]
-We should have alphabet by t71 at the latest, possibly by t69 if we can keep Sumeria sufficiently protected.[/COLOR]

-We need a name for this anti-hydra group! Heracles has been suggested a couple of times
[COLOR="Yellow"]
-Maya have now met India and will play nice for now. If they get asked about tech blocs- they will suggest there was a group forming but that now appears to be dead in the water. Pro-actively ask about potentially joining their group. By time they come to a decision, we'll be declaring war anyway.[/COLOR]

-Map.




Questions?

[Swiss Pauli]

Any our reply:

Hi Kyan,

(Please forward to Byzantium)

Thanks for laying all this out. Your efforts in co-ordinating the group are greatly appreciated!

That said, I'm not sure whether there's any value in the phoney war between you and Byzantium. Tuesday 65 will already be underway, so if anyone should declare war it needs to be you, given that Byzantium will already be at war with India. Furthermore, a 'no order' agreement in war looks pretty weird, given all the problems with this in previous games.

It would also cost trade route value by destroying 'years of peace' modifiers, just as other civs will be getting valuable foreign trade routes themselves.

As you are aware, England have proposed a NAP with cancellation notice, so that will hinder any kind of sneak attack against them, unless a NAPstab is the plan. So what is the plan?

Best Regards

Emperor Capac

[Swiss Pauli]

Turn reports T59 & T60:

Blake switched to a chariot because the diplo situation is much hotter than previously, and we need to show willing. I've proposed to gift chariots to Maya for homeland defence because we're too far from the action which is slated to unfold around India & Sumeria. Maya will have Writing in 5-6 turns for OBs.




Uberfish switched temporarily to a worker. Growth was due in three and unhappiness only due to wear off in five. As we are still in the race for Oracle, I didn't want to take on an unhappy citizen even for a couple of turns.



MP warrior due to complete at Sirian.



Seeing as our research perked up considerably when adding the cottages, I made the worker moves to potential save a turn on their chop dates. Thus Marianne roaded the cows, and Jerry & Bianca cottage the grass tile.

Mick defeated the wolf without taking a scratch (well alllriiigghht!) so he was able to trot off to meet Inca:



They've made a two city axe-rush at Azteca. Doesn't strike me as an overly smart move, but nothing to do about that now.

Keef continues to skirt Carthage's borders:



I moved him SW, having decided not to try to 'farm' XP, and it was a good job I did because he ran into another bear (1S of the plains forest).

Priesthood now due in 5 though we may be able to shave another turn off that

[dsplaisted]

Thanks for playing those turns Swiss. We will be able to finish the Oracle on turn 66, so let's cross our fingers!

As far as the diplomacy goes, I agree that 9v7 makes more sense than 8v8, and that a phony war among our allies probably isn't a good idea.

The attack plan on India has the Warrior attacking first, do you think that's what they actually meant or the order is just arbitrary?