RBP3 [Spoilers] Capac of Mali

[Swiss Pauli]

Team Hercales diplo emails:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Friendly Kittens to Heracles (the Hydra slayer):


*Maniac tries to catch up on wtf has gone on durring the last 24hrs
while he's been gone*

I can't leave you kids alone for a miniuite but what things go all
twilight zone strange now can I?

I'll be out for another 24hrs or so between the drive home from ny
sons, sleep, and work tomorrow.

I enjoyd my time at the helm, but I'm REALLY glad to have Cull doing
the turns again.

I'm going to sleep in the back of the car now. Later.


On 3/7/10, RB Pitboss3 Byzantium wrote:
> Passing on some great news, friends, straight from Cull- India's copper city
> has been burned to the ground!
>
>
> Someone should let Inca and Rome know as well.
>
>
> I speak for my team when I say that we look forward to joining our Mayan
> brothers soon in the field of battle!
>
> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Friendly Kittens wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey, thanks for the support! We're not in such a sucky position though;
>> I'm glad we're in a position to strike a blow against the hydra - and good
>> old Ragnar loves to sack and pillage stuff! If it sounded otherwise, it's
>> likely because I sent these last couple from work (where things have been
>> a
>> bit stressful today; it's also why I wasn't able to chat) and therefore a
>> little harried. Sure, I was hoping to strike an even bigger blow against
>> the hydra's heart - that was the idea of trying for the miracle - but
>> we'll
>> be satisfied with what we can get, and we won't get suckered into losing
>> the
>> great chance we've got just in hopes of something even better down the
>> line. Thanks for your thoughts on my crazy last-minute idea. We'll let
>> you
>> know the outcome of the 90/10 fight!
>>
>> -RefSteel, for Team Friendly Kittens
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 4:11 PM, Babylon wrote:
>>
>>> Hey pal,
>>>
>>> I know you're in a sucky position right now. Unfortunately, they decided
>>> to ruin the game. Now we have to make do with what we've got left.
>>>
>>> I understand your intentions and, to be honest, with the majority of
>>> other
>>> players i'd probably be a lot more in agreement. We appreciate your
>>> support
>>> and friendship in this game
>>> If you need me at all, i'm available on chat.
>>>
>>>
>>> Your friends,
>>>
>>> Kyan
>>> Kysit's Periwinkles.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Friendly Kittens <
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Making it even clearer: Even if they offer us TWO worlds, as well as
>>>> Hydra membership, we'll still attack. We don't want to be in any stupid
>>>> hydra. Five minutes before the turn rolls, that city will fall unless
>>>> the
>>>> RNG decides to throw us ~10% bad luck. I hoped we could get something
>>>> even
>>>> better (India out of the hydra) but it would have taken a miracle, and I
>>>> don't think there's time to work that miracle even if it was possible.
>>>>
>>>> -RefSteel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Friendly Kittens <
>>>> friendlykittens@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Right. Let me be clear: We ARE attacking them at end of turn unless
>>>>> we've got an ironclad agreement for them to switch sides ... and based
>>>>> on
>>>>> your initial responses, it sounds like we that's not happening, because
>>>>> we
>>>>> won't be able to give them an opportunity. Honestly, even if that were
>>>>> not
>>>>> the case, I don't think they have time anymore even if they're willing.
>>>>> It's just taken too long to get to this point. The best we can
>>>>> probably
>>>>> hope for is some info.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's been said so far: In the unsolicited e-mail to which I was
>>>>> referring, India offered the Kittens a free tech when one or the other
>>>>> gets
>>>>> Alpha, in exchange for a 20 turn NAP. That's so lame, I was just going
>>>>> to
>>>>> ignore it. But I decided to write something back, asking what tech
>>>>> they
>>>>> meant and when they'd get alpha, to see if there was any free intel
>>>>> available ... and it struck me that they're probably sick and tired of
>>>>> getting attacked early on (especially Sunrise) and might welcome a
>>>>> chance to
>>>>> switch sides (rego seems to do that at a whim anyway) if it would save
>>>>> the
>>>>> city. So I asked if they'd be willing to look at much closer,
>>>>> long-term
>>>>> friendship with us. Probably nothing will come of it. If they offer
>>>>> nothing meaningful, we'll just attack at the end of the turn. If they
>>>>> respond so slowly that we won't have time to both diplo and attack ...
>>>>> we'll
>>>>> just attack.
>>>>>
>>>>> If they offer entrance to the Hydra soon enough, we may demure, saying
>>>>> we hate the whole giant alliance concept ... and that's where it gets
>>>>> dicey. In part, it depends on their time to Alpha anyway, but what I'd
>>>>> LIKE
>>>>> to do is offer an alternative ... but it sounds like there won't be any
>>>>> good
>>>>> way to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> -RefSteel
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Friendly Kittens <
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> While we're waiting for the timer to approach the end, I thought I'd
>>>>>> suggest something: The Friendly Kittens have received an e-mail from
>>>>>> India
>>>>>> which together with their not ending turn suggests they're on to our
>>>>>> attack
>>>>>> and (obviously) worried about it. I'd like to try one last trick to
>>>>>> try and
>>>>>> either get some info out of India or even work a miracle: If we can
>>>>>> somehow
>>>>>> get them to switch sides, that would be worth letting them keep the
>>>>>> city,
>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know it's likely too late, and I'm sorry I didn't come up with this
>>>>>> sooner, but I thought it was worth a try even now. I of course won't
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> giving them any information about our alliance unless/until they're on
>>>>>> board, but I want to give you guys a heads-up nevertheless and make
>>>>>> sure
>>>>>> your calculation is the same as ours. If you all say, "NO! THEY'LL
>>>>>> ONLY
>>>>>> BETRAY US!!!" we'll obviously drop it. And I won't be giving them any
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> on Heracles (not even its existence) unless you guys agree with the
>>>>>> plan.
>>>>>> It's probably too late to swing this anyway; if they'd sent that
>>>>>> e-mail
>>>>>> sooner.... (sigh) If we don't hear anything, we'll attack shortly
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> the turn rolls - but a 90% chance of a badly injured India on the
>>>>>> other side
>>>>>> isn't as good as a full-strength India on our side (IF we can swing
>>>>>> it) ...
>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -RefSteel

[Swiss Pauli]

India spills the beans in trying to turn Maya:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Friendly Kittens to Heracles:

E-mail replies from India. These came in not long before Cull played the turn. There's data there, but I now regret sending my e-mail to them, in part because they now know my team (at least) knows about their superalliance. (Because they told us about it.)

Key stuff: They say they have nine teams already (they wanted us for the tenth). They appear to imply that non-Indian units plan to attack Tech Peddler. Let me know if you see anything else there.

I've also included my e-mail to them, so you can see what (little) I told them. All of it is true, though I didn't mention our alliance or their hydra; when I wrote it, I really did hope to lure them OUT of the hydra, and (thereby) "establish much closer cooperation between our two civs." That was the "concrete alternative that wouldn't end with us being totally isolated": Them, us, and the rest of us Herculeans on the same side, against the hydra. Unfortunately ... well, as some of you guys pointed out, and as their responses made clear, that wasn't a meaningful option. They're absolutely committed to the hydra, as I should have known they would be. It's likewise true - you can probably tell - that we really didn't want to get involved in an early war. It's just that we want to help stop the Hydra a whole lot MORE. If we could have done so peacefully ... but yeah, there was no chance for that. Sometimes, war is necessary. This was one of those cases. And there's something very appropriate about answering an invitation to become another Hydra head ... by razing one of the central heads' power points!

-Ref Eriksson

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: DJ Civilization
To: Friendly Kittens


Ah, this is good. My friend, if you are wanting to, you are in the tech alliance. I'm going to be out-of-character frank as well because time matters. So, right now there is a 9 team tech alliance. I've been authorized to make you team #10. That means, in *very* few turns we will have a pool of techs the same size as the alliance. I can give you the details of members and techs involved once you accept the offer, but suffice to say the teams in the alliance are going to be way ahead of the teams not in the alliance. Also as part of the alliance, you'll have NAPs with all the teams. Its the opposite of isolation :-). If you want a longer term NAP with us, its yours. We've got other fish to fry. They'll get fried without us, but with us the frying is faster. As a result, I have a feeling any promises made to you won't come about.

Assuming you accept the most important thing is for you to start making contact with the other alliance members, so you can trade for your techs, and for you to plan what tech you will be contributing in the second round of trades.

Darrell for India
On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Friendly Kittens wrote:

Dear Rockin' DJs:
Out-of-character warning/heads-up: Maniac is traveling. I'm at work. Cull has spotty connectivity on weekends. I'll be able to play the turn when I get home if Cull hasn't done so by then - according to civstats, I'll definitely have time before the turn rolls. The trouble is, I can't go in-game or use chat until then.
I can do e-mail - sporadically, and I'm loath to do so from work. But this is important, so let's try. Really sorry this is such a last-minute thing; if I could roll back time, I would.
You mentioned a tech when one of us gets alpha, together with a NAP, en route to (here I'm inferring, but this would be the most important bit from our perspective) much closer cooperation between our civs. We're very interested in pursuing something like this, but obviously don't have a lot of time to work out the details. We REALLY don't want to get involved in an early war, but as you can imagine, certain parties are very eager for us to do so. We'll avoid it if we can, but it would really, really help to have a concrete alternative that doesn't end with us being totally isolated.
Questions I'm hoping you can answer, from least to most important: What tech did you have in mind? When do you expect to have alpha? Are you prepared to form a serious alliance with our civ that will last deep (a hundred turns or more) into the game?

-Ref Eriksson for the Friendly Kittens



On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 6:44 AM, DJ Civilization wrote:

Hi guys,

Pardon the additional message before you guys have had a chance to respond to our first one, but you will understand that tensions are running a bit high with Salthi "hanging around" our city. The general consensus of our team is that there's not much risk that you would attack our city, since it seems odd to attack someone halfway around the world without killing them, since it could easily lead to a game long enemy when everything else about our civs (far distance away) indicates that we should be good allies!

One of our team members noticed that you and Exploit were logged in to the game earlier for about 20 minutes, and wondered if he was using that time to poison you against us, or even urging you to attack T-Shirt contest! We've been attempting to have peaceful relations with the Sumerians, but for some reason he seems bent on conspiring against us, despite being friendly from appearances.

He already has apparently sabotaged our relations with Rome with his story of our (Exploit and our) attempts to negotiate a border. After we told Rome our side of the story, they told us "I must admit that your last message has put a doubt in our minds. It could be that we jumped the gun on this one, and that this is one of those situations where a clash of pre-made assumptions on both sides of the table caused the negotiations to be doomed even before they began. We will, however, keep an eye on what other nations have to tell us about their dealings with you and Exploit with hope of being able to establish for certain whom's diplomacy is worth putting our trust in."

So since you may have already heard the Sumerian's side of things - here is ours. We have had our eyes on a stone site 4 tiles NW of our capital since about Turn 20. It was going to be our 2nd city but we ended up settling for food / horses first. We had a settler for the site in production when we first MET Sumeria. We told him of our plans, and he said he was planning on settling a city 3NW of the stone, and wanted us to settle either S or E of the stone, so our cities would not overlap. We originally had planned to settle 1W of the stone, but agreed to settle ON the stone to minimize overlap (it now overlaps only 2 plains tiles with his proposed city). That still was not enough for him - he wanted us to settle 1S on a floodplain, which we could not do due to needing that FP for sufficient food (it does not have a food resource).

We were hoping to find an amicable solution, offering far more than we felt warranted in the name of good relations (offer to let him culturally control the tiles, offer to timeshare the wine tile, offer to peridodically give him stone for wonders). We really feel like we bent over backwards to preserve amicabilty. I guess Sumeria felt those two plains forest tiles were more important, for whatever reason. In the end, we already had the settler in the area, ready to settle that turn. We delayed as long as we could, but in the end, you know how Krill gets whenever you're last to play!! :-) so we felt we could hold the turn no more.

So that is our side of things. In the name of good relations, we would be willing to gift you a tech whenever either of our civs discovers Alphabet, to be accompanied by a 20 turn NAP starting now, with all the standard clauses (no letting other civs use either of our lands to attack the other, no gifting units to civs at war with the other, no active espionage, etc). We'd also be interested in exploring additional trading opportunities (or as we like to call them, PARTIES!) with you.

Finally, as we said in our last note, there are a lot of things going on in this game diplomatically that we want to have an IM conversation with you about. We've touched on a few of them here but there is a pretty nice opportunity available and we'd like to give you the details. Is there a time that is conventient for you?

DJ Civ
India

[Swiss Pauli]

Babylon's reply to England, with ref to my email chiding him about agreeing the NAP:

You worry too much my friend, i have agreed to NOTHING yet

our reply:

Lords of Avalon,

Now, as you may be aware, i am English by birth and actually moved south to fine Genesis as a child.

Therefore i know better than most about the nobility of the fine English people. Not to mention their hospitality to guests. However, your map doesn't particularly fill me with hope going forward. I appreciate those two food resouces are nearer your capital than ours and it is not your fault that the map-making Gods deigned to put none of the resources much nearer us than yourself.

With this in mind, i don't really mind conceding the two named sites as they are considerable nearer yourselves anyway. The cow site though, i think perhaps we should negotiate further? It is feasibly our only worthwhile city site in a northern direction and any give here would be seen favourably by ourselves.

Also, would you have any problems with me forwarding this to Mali also? The land in question arguably affects them more than us and i would like to make sure we crease out any potential obstacles before they occur?

Your friends,

Kyan
Kysit's Periwinkles

Frankly, he's deluding himself (or deceiving us?) if he thinks he's not agreed a NAP with England:

All the other terms* are fine by us and we're happy to have the NAP either linked or seperate- it makes no real difference to us.

*NAP, No Durchmarsch, 43 EPs, no-scoutie-OBs.

I'll remind him of this via email as I'm not around tonight to chat.

[Swiss Pauli]

Turn report T62: still no Oracle, so the workers move to the forests. Priesthood due in three.

Uberfish switches to a chariot in order to get a hammer or two invested in case we need an emergency whip: we do have a NAP until T75 with England, but with Maya attacking India and razing one of their cities we should be careful because England could ask their alliance to 'approve' a NAPstab on strategic grounds. We know from the screenshot they provided that England had a chariot 4N of Uberfish on T61, and losing Uberfish would be a calamity.

Keef is healing (no barbs in sight) and Mick moved west.

[Swiss Pauli]

Email to Babylon:

Hi Kyan,

Honestly, I think you did agree quite a lot with England (my bold):

"All the other terms are fine by us and we're happy to have the NAP either linked or seperate- it makes no real difference to us."

So that's a NAP, no RoP, 43 EPs, and no-scoutie-OBs.

From your recent emails, I don't think that you necessarily wanted to agree terms, but I don't think you can back-pedal from this position.

In your latest email, you seem happy to agree on settling arrangements even if England are on the other team. If you then make a volte-face when we can't join their gang, it may look like you've been negotiating in bad faith.

FWIW, my job involves (sometimes tortuous) bilateral negotiations, so I'm perhaps overly sensitive to the nuances of negotiation, but I think you're trying too hard to give England feedback when a simple 'we're discussing' holding email would have let you keep your/our options open.

Best Wishes

Swiss

[Swiss Pauli]

Email to Babylon:

Dear Kyan,

In light of England's recent admission that we can't join their gang, I think it's time that we close the settling/NAP chapter with them.

Here's our draft:

'Dear Lords of Avalon,

Having discussed your propositions in depth, and in light of the fact that we will not be permitted to join your Grand Alliance, Mali will accept the following conditions:

- 1) An auto-renewing NAP with a 10t cooldown. The earliest the NAP could be canceled is T100. If the NAP is canceled on turn X by one team, then on turn X+10 the other team may declare war. On turn X+11, any team may declare war.

We decline all of the other proposals (EP limit, RoP ban, no-scoutie OBs, and settling agreement).

Whilst we're disappointed to end up on opposite sides, we look forward to pitting our wits against you, and competing in the best spirit of the Realms Beyond community.'

What do you think?

Best Wishes

Emperor Capac

[Swiss Pauli]

Big ol' diplo & co-ordination email exchange:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Capac Mali to Heracles

Hi All,

(Please forward to Rome & Sumeria)

Re: Tech

Can we get the link to the google spreadsheet?

Babylon is definitely researching HBR, but we're wating for their ETA.

No offence intended to Inca, but we need fast Archery too much to risk it being slowed by war.

Re: Meetings

Mali-Rome: warrior heading east along Inca's border to meet Rome (see attached screeenshot).

Mali-Sumeria: chariot due in 2 will head west to meet Sumeria at Maya's borders.

Babylon: we'll try to get a chariot to gift to Babylon to speed their contacts.

Re: Espionage

Mali-Carthage: we've already met Carthage and are amassing EPs against them (and they're not investing any in us as yet). England and Mali are at 43 EPs each. We have also met HRE, but have not invested any EPs.

Re: Strike against England

Not possible without a NAPstab before T111. Much better to focus on India & Azteca, including homeland defence of Inca.

Best Wishes

Emperor Capac

On 9 March 2010 18:34, Byz:
Forwarded unedited.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sumeria to Heracles

Ok there are a lot of things going on in our alliance right now so I thought I would address them all in a single agenda so that nothing gets lost. Please forward to Inca, Babylon and Mali.

1) Tech Coordination. I sent out a google spreadsheet of the techs and who was researching what and when it was estimated to finish. Please forward the share invite to Inca, Babylon and Mali. I updated the spreadsheet a few minutes ago with all the new info I had.

We are missing researchers for two key techs (Archery and Horseback Riding) and info on the Inca and Babylon research plan. I believe it has already been recommended by others but can we get confirmation that the Inca are researching Archery and that Babylon are researching Horseback Riding and when those researches are estimated to be complete?

2) Intra-Alliance Contacts. It is important that all members of the Heracles alliance meet one another by Turn 71 if possible so that all the techs can be shared as soon as possible. As I understand it here are the outstanding contacts that still need to be coordinated. If there are more contacts that need to be facilitated then please let me know.

Sumeria - Babylon. Sumeria has a warrior Southwest of Byzantium territory headed Northwest looking to make contact with Babylon. Sumeria will send a screenshot of the warriors current location to Byzantium. If Babylon could send Byzantium a similar screen shot then Byzantium could send each of us a movement route that would expedite our meeting.

Sumeria - Inca. Sumeria has a warrior headed west along the southern edge of the Great Desert searching for the Inca. I have no idea if this is a good path or not. Can someone confirm if the Incan lands are near the Great Desert or if I should be headed farther south?

Sumeria - Mali. Sumeria has a warrior headed east through Mayan lands looking to make contact with the Mali. If the Mayans could send a screenshot of their nearest units location then Maya could coordinate a movement route that would expedite our meeting.

Rome - Byzantium. This meeting is being facilitated as part of Operation Tuesday 65. If Byzantium will send an updated screenshot of their chariot's location plus the number of healing turns required then I will send out an update for the plan.

Rome - Maya. This meeting is being facilitated as part of Operation Tuesday 65. If Maya will send an updated screenshot of their chariot's location plus the length of time that the chariot needs to heal then I will send out an update for the plan.

Rome - Babylon. Do either of you have units moving towards one another? If not my recommendation would be to meet near Incan lands as part of a plan to aid the Incan war effort.

Rome - Mali. Do either of you have units moving towards one another? If not my recommendation would be to meet near Incan lands as part of a plan to aid the Incan war effort.

3) Operation Tuesday 65. This plan is still a go but timelines and movement routes may need to be modified pending information from the Mayans and the Byzantium requested above.

4) Decision to Attack England vs Attack Aztec. There still needs to be a decision made on whether Babylon, Mali and Byzantium open a new front by attacking England or if Mali and Babylon join the Inca attack against the Aztec.

Traditional Sun Tzu-type strategy would favor a strong coordinated joint attack on the vulnerable Aztec instead of spreading our forces out amongst more opponents. With the Ottomans reinforcing Aztecs, it would also hurt our chances to recruit Hydra defectors if they are seen to be coming to the aid of their alliance members while we do not. Finally, a joint attack on the Aztecs might also be able to facilitate a meeting between Rome, Babylon and Mali if the Romans sent a warrior or a chariot over to the Incan lands. Rome is the source of Iron Working and as far as I know there is no pending meeting betwen those 3 civs which means Babylon and Mali may be late getting Iron Working.

5) Espionage Coordination. Rome has swapped his EP over to France. Based upon power graphs it is believed that Portugal only has 4-5 warriors at the moment similar to India. Aztec power is significantly higher and probably includes chariots/archers or 8-9 warriors.

Aztec. Sumeria has Research visibility. (Hopefully to be eliminated shortly so no more EP spending)
India. Sumeria has demographics visibility. (Hopefully to be eliminated shortly so no more EP spending)
Portugal. Rome has demographics capability. Sumeria EP focus.
France. Rome EP focus.
Ottomans. Incan EP focus?
England. Mali EP focus?
Egypt. No one has met yet. Mayan EP focus?
Carthage. No one has met yet. Byzantium EP focus?
Holy Roman Empire. No one has met yet. Babylon EP focus?

6) Other Items to be added to the Agenda?[/quote]

[Swiss Pauli]

T63 played. A quick look at civstats tells us the bad news: Krill has completed Oracle for the Hydra

Mick moved onto the desert hill and workers started chopping. Chops were stopped because they're unguarded and won't recognise a Hydra member as a threat.

We need to discuss our plan B now that Oracle has gone. So far, I've had no feedback on Operation: In Your Face http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=180

I'm beginning to have my doubts about this plan, and wonder whether we'd be better off settling the FPs to the south.

We definitely want to whip the worker in Uberfish next turn, but we need to decide whether Sirian goes for a settler or a couple more workers with the pending chops.

[Swiss Pauli]

Update on Heracles Alliance:

From Sumeria to Heracles

1) Tech Coordination. Google spreadsheet has been updated. Byzantium has completed Masonry and is researching Polytheism (Turn 71). Babylon is researching Horseback Riding (Turn 73). Inca are in total war mode and not performing any research after completing Animal Handling (Turn 64)..

It is likely that Hydra will beat us to Monotheism and claim Judaism since they already have Polytheism (8 turn head start). A proposal has been put forth that Byzantium instead research Hunting (duplicate research) and Archery. A counter proposal has been put forth that Byzantium finish researching Polytheism which will coincide with Alphabet and if at that time Hydra has already researched Monotheism that they then research Archery as they will be gifted Hunting the same turn.

Sumeria has offered to delay the research of Currency by 2-3 turns to complete Archery research by Turn 74, if no other solution is found.

2) Intra-Alliance Contacts. It is important that all members of the Heracles alliance meet one another by Turn 71 if possible so that all the techs can be shared as soon as possible. As I understand it here are the outstanding contacts that still need to be coordinated. If there are more contacts that need to be facilitated then please let me know.

Sumeria - Babylon. Sumeria will make contact with Babylon on Turn 64.

Sumeria - Inca. Sumeria will move to meet the Quechua east of Babylon. At the same time, we recommend that the Quechua east of Rome head NE to Sumeria where the Incans can meet the Maya and Byzantium.

Sumeria - Mali. Sumeria has a warrior headed east through Mayan lands looking to make contact with the Mali. Mali to produce a chariot on Turn 65 who will move to meet up.

Rome - Byzantium. This meeting should occur on Turn 63 or turn 64.

Rome - Maya. This meeting should occur on Turn 64.

Rome - Babylon. Babylon has an axeman headed south to find Rome. Rome will have an axeman in 3 turns who can move to meet up.

Rome - Mali. A Mali warrior is headed east along Incan border looking for Rome. The same Roman axeman being produced in 3 turns to meet Babylon can move to meet up with the Mali.

Inca - Byzantium. A quechua is headed east from Babylon seeking Byzantium. A second quechua east of Rome can move NE to meet Byzantium in Sumeria.

Inca - Maya. A quechua is headed east from Babylon and could eventually reach Maya. A second quechua east of Rome can move NE to meet the Maya in Sumeria.

3) Indian War. Operation Tuesday 65 is likely a bust due to extensive barbarian injuries to the Byzanitum chariot. Possible recon data from the Mayan chariot concerning Karaoke Tuesday's defenses may allow for the attack to proceed but improbable.

Current proposed plan is to facilitate the intra-alliance contacts that were part of this operation and rally at Bison Pass for the next assault. The Incan Quechua scouting east of Rome, a second Roman axeman being produced in 3 turns are potential reinforcements for the assault force that have been identified so far.

4) Aztec War. The near consensus appears to be that the alliance should not open a new front against England and instead concentrate on helping the Incans defeat the Aztecs. Those who can make NAPs with other Hydra members outside of the two principle targets should probably do so, with the possible exceptions of Ottomans and Portugal who are likely to interfere with the two wars in progress.

The Mali warrior, Babylon axeman and Roman axeman who are seeking to establish contact with each other should all be near Incan lands after contact is established and would make good Incan reinforcements.

5) Espionage Coordination.

Aztec. Sumeria has Research visibility. (Hopefully to be eliminated shortly so no more EP spending)
India. Sumeria has demographics visibility. Current Maya EP focus.
Portugal. Rome has demographics visibility. Sumeria EP focus.
France. Rome EP focus.
Ottomans. Inca EP focus.
England. Mali has demographics visibility. Babylon and Byzantium EP focus.
Egypt. Eventual Maya EP focus.
Carthage. Mali EP focus.
Holy Roman Empire. Babylon or Byzantium EP focus depending upon who meets them first.

6) Hydra Techs Researched
Fishing, Sailing*
The Wheel, Pottery, Writing, Alphabet*
Agriculture, Animal Husbandry
Hunting, Archery*
Mysticism, Meditation, Polytheism*, Priesthood*
Mining, Masonry, Bronze Working

* indicates tech currently not possessed by Heracles alliance

[Swiss Pauli]

Predictable update from Inca:

Hello Everybody,

Please forward this to Sumeria, Maya and the Byzantines.

We the Inca feel it might be best if we make an effort to get peace with the Aztecs. With the Ottomans gifting the Aztecs 2 chariots, we'll probably lose our units currently involved in the battle. We have parked research on Hunting currently @0%.

However if reinforcements are to arrive soonish we could possibly continue the war with aid. He currently has about 5 archers, 3 warriors and 2 chariots. The 2nd city could have been taken if not for the timely interruption of the Ottomans. If reinforcements are only a few turns away we may be able to raze it. However if it's more than 2-3 turns it might probably be best to reevaluate. 2-3 turns Ruff could divide his archers more appropriately between the cities and it would be nothing more than a strong choke on him. We feel we'd certainly be capable of out expanding him and we have already set him back (and us) quite a lot.

I know this isn't a lot of notice but if I don't hear much in the way of arguments over the next 8 or so hours I shall contact Ruff looking for peace. Perhaps we should look to choke another civ's production capabilities (England was mentioned?) as we know they will hold each other up tech wise.

Athlete for Team JANK

I asked them for screenshots, but their axe rush looks to be a busted flush. If I were Ruff I'd be looking to take the fight to Inca...