WW 45: I'm an Illegal Alien

[Rowain]

Is there something in particular that you find scummy about me ? Or is it just a general feeling ? Just in case you want me to explain something.

It is rather a problem of whom to trust. If I trust Lewwyn and Gazglum then you have to be scum as I find it hard to believe in a Psilly+DP pair. That is case A

But if we all 3 are town then I prefer lynching you over lynching me (as I know I'm town without any doubt) and Lewwyn as Lewwyn can easier sway the masses than you and me.

it is only case C which holds my hand currently.

[Psillycyber]

It makes more sense to me than someone giving me scum cred for making observations on mechanics, and doing so only by claiming somehow I'm trying to get people to talk about stuff so scum can set us up. So yeah, sure.

This post is towny, don't lynch this. Please come join me in Lewwyn everyone.

(This is from Day 1). 

I just want to bring this up to point out that Dp101 is implicitly saying that the Jabbz attackers (i.e. Rowain, Gaz, and Lewwyn, in roughly that chronological order in the thread) had the wrong analysis of the whole scum-nomination-hint controversy.  Fair enough (although I disagree).  The question is, which of these three did Dp101 give a pass to for being misguided townies, and which one did he interpret as acting in bad faith?  It seems odd that he would single out Lewwyn, unless he previously had a particularly good argument against Lewwyn that I missed even in this last re-read.  Why not suspect Rowain or Gaz for arguing in bad faith on this issue, Dp101?  

Also, I'm going to violate my earlier advice about pitting Lewwyn vs. Gaz today, but I just found things to discuss from re-reading Day 1 that are too interesting to pass up.  

Something I noticed after re-reading Day 1 is that both Lewwyn and Gaz felt pretty sure about the Jabbz + Dp101 combo at various points.  With their Day 1 reads so similar, you'd think they'd be seeing more eye-to-eye today on Day 2.  

In particular, Lewwyn, I'm not sure why you came out this morning assuming Gaz + Dp101 had to be the scum team.  You criticized Gaz for not getting off the Jabbz lynch at the end of the day, but you don't really dispute his reads that Jabbz and Dp101 were both scummy on Day 1 and pretty much equally reasonable targets—because that was your read too, at least until the very end of Day 1 when you came down more firmly against Dp101 (but not vouching for Jabbz's innocence either, if I recall, (in fact, exact words:  "I'm also pretty sure of Jabbz, but honestly DP is just higher on my list.") so not exactly disputing or changing your earlier read substantially).  

So, in Gaz's shoes, why not stay on the Jabbz lynch?  If not for wanting to humor you, I myself would have stayed on the Jabbz lynch.  Surely you'd be able to see how Gaz's play at the end of Day 1 could be a reasonable town mistake rather than assume that it had to be chosen out of conscious scum play.  

So You think Jabbz is town, but you don't talk about it in thread. Instead you hide away and say nothing... because you don't want to stir the pot. Which is exactly why I'm voting for you. If I'm wrong about Jabbz, you would want him to go down. You wouldn't want to stir the pot.

You hoped others would PICK UP ON THE FACT that you weren't defending Jabbz? So that they would REALIZE you were actually defending him and thought he was town? BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS DEFEND YOUR SCUMBUDDY?!

WHAT?!

Yes, it makes so much sense why haven't been talking much, because every time you do you incriminate yourself more.

I just want to point out that this criticism of Dp101 (among others Lewwyn had) rested entirely on the presumption that Jabbz + Dp101 were the scum duo.  We know now with Jabbz's towniness that this is no longer admissable as scum-Dp101 evidence.  But the real point I want to make is to compare it with this post by Lewwyn just a little later:

I am saying its very possible that you are scum and Jabbz is town. If you are scum and jabbz is town. Obviously you wouldn't want to defend him. I am not so stupid as to cling to the idea that you and Jabbz are scumbuddies. That was a working theory, but you are trying to use that as a shield. I am saying that your actions are those of scum trying to get Jabbz lynched.

On re-read, this is the first place where I can find Lewwyn actually entertaining the idea that Jabbz could be town.  Whereas, contra Lewwyn's statement here, it did very much seem like Lewwyn had been clinging to the "Jabbz + Dp101 scumbuddy" theory earlier, and I wouldn't fault Dp101 for getting that impression.  Also, this idea that scum Dp101 was trying to get town Jabbz lynched directly conflicts with Lewwyn's earlier supposition that scum Dp101 was trying to defend scum Jabbz.  Both theories couldn't be correct...and yet here we see Lewwyn make each argument in quick succession.  

Lewwyn starts to look more and more scummy upon re-read.  The only problem I have with a Lewwyn vote right now is, it leaves me in the dark as to who the other scum would be.  I really don't see how it could be Dp101.  AdrienIer would mean scum put both of themselves on the block today—unlikely (although, if this meta consideration didn't exist, I would be inclined to consider an AdrienIer + Lewwyn combo based on AdrienIer's play as well).  Ditto with Rowain being an unlikely partner due to 2 scum being on the block.  I would be left with Gaz + Lewwyn.  The only way that would make sense is if this morning's back and forth between Lewwyn and Gaz was all spectacular theatre.  

Of course, we should always keep in mind the possibility that all 3 nominees are town and the scum pair is Dp101 + Gaz.  But Gaz just feels towny to me...and thus, ergo, Lewwyn has to be town too, even though they haven't gotten along this morning.  There's just no other pairs for Lewwyn that make sense.  So, right now I'm going to stick with my working theory that scum is Dp101 + one of AdrienIer OR Rowain.  But hey, Gaz buddy, if you can make a case for why a scum pair of you + Lewwyn makes sense, I could be persuaded to switch my vote to Lewwyn for today. 

P.S. sorry for the whole post being purple, but I screwed up the formatting and couldn't get it back to displaying in just plain black for some reason. 

[Rowain]

Rowain seems the most scummy for attacking Jabbz for the fact that Jabbz was merely trying to puzzle out some meta that was, in this game's case, especially fuzzy at first.  It felt like Rowain was reaching unnaturally hard for something to pin on Jabbz.  And instead of realizing this and saying, "Oh you're right, nevermind, here's another target that seems suspicious" like a good town should do, Rowain has kept harping on Jabbz.

You have still not shown me my harping on Jabbz. I have now reread everything I wrote but I still can't find it. I have even tried to reason with Jabbz several times and shown him my posts that I did nothing but say minor scumpoints to Jabbz and DP.

Something I don't understand:  Rowain criticizes Dp101 for helping scum figure out whom to nominate, and then Jabbz steps in to defend Dp101 and attack Rowain for reaching, and Rowain swings back at Jabbz with accusing words that insinuate wrongly that Jabbz had been the original one helping scum figure out whom to nominate.  Either this Rowain is a very confused townie to whom all those who think adversely to him get lumped into a homogenous lump of suspicion (I would think town Rowain would be more veteran than that), or scum trying to sling muddy scum-vibes on anyone in the early game.  I would have expected Rowain to calmly re-explain to Jabbz why Dp101 was suspicious, and save the real venom for Dp101 in this case.

That is wrong on nearly all accounts.

This opening from Lewwyn this morning is so bizarre the more I think about it that almost feels like it could be some sort of prepared gambit between Rowain + Lewwyn for the start of Day 2.  Lewwyn's play just doesn't feel natural here.  It feels forced.  The plan would be:
1.  Nominate both Rowain and Lewwyn (town would never suspect!)
2.  Have Lewwyn flagrantly act out in a way that is out of all logic even for Lewwyn and (with the help of his own scummy locked-in drama-queen suicide vote at the start of Day 2) get himself lynched.  
3.  Count on the "Rowain being Rowain" + "scum would never pit themselves against each other like that" cards to carry Rowain the rest of the game.  

The one flaw in this theory:  people would start to suspect some crazy scum gambit like this once Lewwyn did get lynched and turn up as scum.  So, on second thought, this theory is probably bogus.  But I'll include it, instead of deleting it, only to highlight the lengths I am reaching to in order to try to explain to myself why Lewwyn's play feels so contrived this morning.

You know to make that work rowain and Lewwyn should be on each others throats. If one was going to go suicide that whole makes little sense. And yes I think you are very reaching to create content.

[Dp101]

My eyes are on fire. Also, I have no idea why after calling so many people other than me scummy, you decided at the end that your working theory is me + someone else. Is it just that scum probably didn't put 3 town up for lynch -> there is one town between you, me, and Gaz -> you trust Gaz -> me? This is responding to Psilly, not quoting because I don't want to inflict that purple on people.

[Psillycyber]

Wait, I just remembered that Dp101 + Adrien doesn't work for reasons I pointed out earlier. So my top 3 possibilities (in no particular order) have to be:
A. Dp101 + Rowain
B. Adrien + ??????
C. Lewwyn + ??????

[Psillycyber]

Dp101: I would be going whole-hog against you if not for the fact that I doubt my reads from yesterday in light of how Jabbz flipped. Still, my suspicious about you from yesterday linger. But I am trying to keep an open mind.

In particular, can you explain who Lewwyn would be paired with? Because, if you can give me a theory that makes sense, then I am very tempted to switch my vote to Lewwyn.

[Rowain]

Dp101:  I would be going whole-hog against you if not for the fact that I doubt my reads from yesterday in light of how Jabbz flipped.  Still, my suspicious about you from yesterday linger.  But I am trying to keep an open mind.  

In particular, can you explain who Lewwyn would be paired with?  Because, if you can give me a theory that makes sense, then I am very tempted to switch my vote to Lewwyn.

With you for example

[Psillycyber]

[quote pid='623009' dateline='1486232295']
Here's a version in white, which shows up well against my RB theme, even though I can't see the text in the reply box when I type it in here (I have to highlight over to double-check what I'm typing). .  Feel free to quotethis one. 

It makes more sense to me than someone giving me scum cred for making observations on mechanics, and doing so only by claiming somehow I'm trying to get people to talk about stuff so scum can set us up. So yeah, sure.

This post is towny, don't lynch this. Please come join me in Lewwyn everyone.

(This is from Day 1). 

I just want to bring this up to point out that Dp101 is implicitly saying that the Jabbz attackers (i.e. Rowain, Gaz, and Lewwyn, in roughly that chronological order in the thread) had the wrong analysis of the whole scum-nomination-hint controversy.  Fair enough (although I disagree).  The question is, which of these three did Dp101 give a pass to for being misguided townies, and which one did he interpret as acting in bad faith?  It seems odd that he would single out Lewwyn, unless he previously had a particularly good argument against Lewwyn that I missed even in this last re-read.  Why not suspect Rowain or Gaz for arguing in bad faith on this issue, Dp101?  

Also, I'm going to violate my earlier advice about pitting Lewwyn vs. Gaz today, but I just found things to discuss from re-reading Day 1 that are too interesting to pass up.  

Something I noticed after re-reading Day 1 is that both Lewwyn and Gaz felt pretty sure about the Jabbz + Dp101 combo at various points.  With their Day 1 reads so similar, you'd think they'd be seeing more eye-to-eye today on Day 2.  

In particular, Lewwyn, I'm not sure why you came out this morning assuming Gaz + Dp101 had to be the scum team.  You criticized Gaz for not getting off the Jabbz lynch at the end of the day, but you don't really dispute his reads that Jabbz and Dp101 were both scummy on Day 1 and pretty much equally reasonable targets—because that was your read too, at least until the very end of Day 1 when you came down more firmly against Dp101 (but not vouching for Jabbz's innocence either, if I recall, (in fact, exact words:  "I'm also pretty sure of Jabbz, but honestly DP is just higher on my list.") so not exactly disputing or changing your earlier read substantially).  

So, in Gaz's shoes, why not stay on the Jabbz lynch?  If not for wanting to humor you, I myself would have stayed on the Jabbz lynch.  Surely you'd be able to see how Gaz's play at the end of Day 1 could be a reasonable town mistake rather than assume that it had to be chosen out of conscious scum play.  

So You think Jabbz is town, but you don't talk about it in thread. Instead you hide away and say nothing... because you don't want to stir the pot. Which is exactly why I'm voting for you. If I'm wrong about Jabbz, you would want him to go down. You wouldn't want to stir the pot.

You hoped others would PICK UP ON THE FACT that you weren't defending Jabbz? So that they would REALIZE you were actually defending him and thought he was town? BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS DEFEND YOUR SCUMBUDDY?!

WHAT?!

Yes, it makes so much sense why haven't been talking much, because every time you do you incriminate yourself more.

I just want to point out that this criticism of Dp101 (among others Lewwyn had) rested entirely on the presumption that Jabbz + Dp101 were the scum duo.  We know now with Jabbz's towniness that this is no longer admissable as scum-Dp101 evidence.  But the real point I want to make is to compare it with this post by Lewwyn just a little later:

I am saying its very possible that you are scum and Jabbz is town. If you are scum and jabbz is town. Obviously you wouldn't want to defend him. I am not so stupid as to cling to the idea that you and Jabbz are scumbuddies. That was a working theory, but you are trying to use that as a shield. I am saying that your actions are those of scum trying to get Jabbz lynched.

On re-read, this is the first place where I can find Lewwyn actually entertaining the idea that Jabbz could be town.  Whereas, contra Lewwyn's statement here, it did very much seem like Lewwyn had been clinging to the "Jabbz + Dp101 scumbuddy" theory earlier, and I wouldn't fault Dp101 for getting that impression.  Also, this idea that scum Dp101 was trying to get town Jabbz lynched directly conflicts with Lewwyn's earlier supposition that scum Dp101 was trying to defend scum Jabbz.  Both theories couldn't be correct...and yet here we see Lewwyn make each argument in quick succession.  

Lewwyn starts to look more and more scummy upon re-read.  The only problem I have with a Lewwyn vote right now is, it leaves me in the dark as to who the other scum would be.  I really don't see how it could be Dp101.  AdrienIer would mean scum put both of themselves on the block today—unlikely (although, if this meta consideration didn't exist, I would be inclined to consider an AdrienIer + Lewwyn combo based on AdrienIer's play as well).  Ditto with Rowain being an unlikely partner due to 2 scum being on the block.  I would be left with Gaz + Lewwyn.  The only way that would make sense is if this morning's back and forth between Lewwyn and Gaz was all spectacular theatre.  

Of course, we should always keep in mind the possibility that all 3 nominees are town and the scum pair is Dp101 + Gaz.  But Gaz just feels towny to me...and thus, ergo, Lewwyn has to be town too, even though they haven't gotten along this morning.  There's just no other pairs for Lewwyn that make sense.  So, right now I'm going to stick with my working theory that scum is Dp101 + one of AdrienIer OR Rowain.  But hey, Gaz buddy, if you can make a case for why a scum pair of you + Lewwyn makes sense, I could be persuaded to switch my vote to Lewwyn for today. 

P.S. sorry for the whole post being purple, but I screwed up the formatting and couldn't get it back to displaying in just plain black for some reason. 
[/quote]

[Psillycyber]

Dp101:  I would be going whole-hog against you if not for the fact that I doubt my reads from yesterday in light of how Jabbz flipped.  Still, my suspicious about you from yesterday linger.  But I am trying to keep an open mind.  

In particular, can you explain who Lewwyn would be paired with?  Because, if you can give me a theory that makes sense, then I am very tempted to switch my vote to Lewwyn.

With you for example

Obviously, I'm going to find that...less than convincing. 

[Dp101]

Dp101:  I would be going whole-hog against you if not for the fact that I doubt my reads from yesterday in light of how Jabbz flipped.  Still, my suspicious about you from yesterday linger.  But I am trying to keep an open mind.  

In particular, can you explain who Lewwyn would be paired with?  Because, if you can give me a theory that makes sense, then I am very tempted to switch my vote to Lewwyn.

I think I already mentioned that I think it might be Gaz. By process of elimination, you have been extremely towny, AdrienIer has been looking better (although I haven't actually seen how he plays past D1, he might be great scum), so that leaves Gaz and Rowain. I am leaning towards Gaz because I feel that the kind of argument they had together earlier today can easily come out of scum Lew, and Gaz might be convinced to play along, with the plan being to make it look like Gaz convinced Lew to unvote himself, thus getting towncred from a. what wolf votes themselves and b. pulling a suicidal player back from the lynch. I have no strong feeling either way on Rowain, so it could be with him, and double scum nominations are always a possibility, I just think it is unlikely.