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CHAOS Realm

I just noticed Shatter reduces magical ranged attacks to 1. This seems to have been that way in the original code. But the spell descriptions says "missile attacks" and I made the AI assume it's not for ranged as well.

So the question...do we fix the effect, or the description and AI? I'm tempted to fix the description because magical ranged units have a high resistance usually, so it isn't all that relevant that they are affected.
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I would fix description and AI and leave functionality as is.
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Random Suggestion: Make 'disintegrate' more versatile, affecting surviving units (10+ resist) by disintegrating 8 armor points, thus making it also an anti-hero spell.

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(February 15th, 2017, 07:16)zitro1987 Wrote: Random Suggestion: Make 'disintegrate' more versatile, affecting surviving units (10+ resist) by disintegrating 8 armor points, thus making it also an anti-hero spell.

Disintegrate is powerful enough as is. I'm not going to buff it and Chaos has no need for any more armor reduction when it already has doom, eldritch and armor piercing all associated with the realm. (plus Call Chaos as an antihero spell : it's random but it might warp the hero to 0 resistance or confuse it)
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I'm having some doubts about Great Wasting.
The corruption effect is fine (Shamans, Gaia's Blessing and Consecration can clear it but Meteor Storm kills shaman and the spells are not that frequent - being able to corrupt every single tile in the world would be too powerful it it couldn't be countered anyway.) but the flat +5 rebels, I'm not sure about that.
Specifically, with Stream of Life becoming Uncommon, it might be far too likely for it to not matter - SoL completely negates it, but having enough unrest reduction buildings does so as well - up to 11 unrest can be reduced by those and units, so even if the taxes are not at the lowest, there still won't be any rebels - causing any major city to shrink is unlikely.
On the other hand, lower tax rates are relevant - the AI gets a massive boost to gold and is now capable of spending it well - the problem is this part of the effect is pretty much invisible to the player and very hard to measure. We can calculate though. Assuming the AI loses 8 gold/people (2 taxes, 2x difficulty bonus, 100% gold bonus buildings and roads), the spell equals 40 gold lost per city if taxes are unchanged, might be more if lowered but probably not by much - or 800g a turn on a 20 city empire : the AI can buy about 2 fewer top tier normal units each turn which is...not much. An empire of that size will probably spawn 4-5 on those a turn even without buying more for gold. Production is not lost if taxes were lowered to remove the rebels.
So yeah, I don't think the effect is nearly impressive enough, even if it might be against the human player (is it? I don't think I've let a chaos wizard live long enough to know).
Any ideas how to improve it? (the corruption part should stay, but the economic part needs to be better somehow I guess?)
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Um. I hate to say it, but I think you should see how the new Stream of Life plays out, especially the increased cost. I know I don't forsee using it much due to that, and even if stream of life cancels it, if I have stream of life in even a few cities, I'm quickly paying more for SoL, than the chaos wizard is paying for Great Wasting. In pure economics, Great Wasting is worth its cost simply because it forces life wizards (potentially up to 4 of them) to spend more mana per turn than the chaos wizard is spending. I'd leave it as is unless it actually becomes an issue.

(To be fair, most chaos very rares are like this - they're very very scary, with lots and lots of counters.)
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(February 19th, 2017, 20:23)Nelphine Wrote: Um. I hate to say it, but I think you should see how the new Stream of Life plays out, especially the increased cost.

I haven't actually increased the maintenance - I did say "and maybe 12 maintenance", wasn't sure about doing it.
The problem is, the AI will have it on all their cities anyway, and when the human player casts Great Wasting is what worries me - it works fine enough when the AI does that (although Stream of Life does counter it too well even in that case).

It's a very rare so I'd want it to be scary, and I don't agree about the others not being scary.

Call the Void pretty much destroys an entire city and the only counters to it are also very rare.
Armageddon grants a massive power boost to the AI, comparable to Life Force - the unrest and volcanoes eating terrain are just the extras.
Warp Reality is crazy - at -2 to Hit against all those Chaos units (that like have +3 armor from the Chaos Channel buff granted with Doom Mastery) nothing except super buffed units will do relevant damage.
Call Chaos eliminates pretty much anything if given enough time - The AI definitely has the skill to use it repeatedly, and the change to confusion (chance to change control immediately before the other player can take a turn) makes it even better at removing your big units.
Disintegrate, well, let's just say I lost about 4 Behemoths in my previous game to that - The AI is aware of spell save modifiers and won't hesitate to reduce the resistance of big targets by spells if it can. Unless you can afford to use only 10+ resistance units, this spell hurts even more than Doom Bolt, and the real scary part is you only need to lose a few points to have very rares that get disintegrated. If it ever hits a hero, the items are gone as well - no save rolls, no random chances, the entire unit just gone and the AI is pretty much guaranteed to go for it immediately if there is a chance.
Meteor Storm is questionable - the effects are nasty but hitting other AI players can benefit the human player far more than anything else of this kind in the game. On the other hand, the human player can also forget about using anything but expensive top tier units for anything, but loses buildings needed to produce them randomly, plus being forced to use expensive big units to guard nodes is a pretty huge handicap - leaving them unguarded helps the AI a lot because they will steal them all, but keeping them will cost a lot on maintenance.
Chaos Surge is huge - only with Doom Mastery, but the added resistance means the typical weaknesses of fantastic units are much less relevant while they still get all the benefits of having massive attack power paired with either flight, fire breath or armor. It'd say it's not any worse than Crusade, and possibly better.
Hydra is pretty horrible for the AI, I can't argue with that - it's slow and useless unless buffed -but still has a bit thing going for it. With 90 total health and regeneration, it'll be there to keep the combat going and enable the AI to cast those nasty direct damage spells for eternity and while the Hydra doesn't do anything, the opposing army is still wiped out.
And this leaves two spells - Great Drake is the most powerful very rare creature in the game, albeit ironically the easiest to counter - but failing to do so means certain doom to even the best units.And it's easy only until Warp Reality appears to support them - at -2 to hit, not much can deal damage to a Great Drake with its 10 armor.
Last is Great Wasting and I think this might really be the weakest - corruption is annoying but easy to clean up, and +5 rebels is irrelevant if cities are large, as it's proportionally not as much compared to the total population, only about a quarter - but it's also not very good if the city is small but has all the anti-unrest buildings, as in that case they can counter all the unrest just fine, a small city doesn't have a lot of it coming from the % of the population itself due to taxes.

I might be wrong though, as I said it's really hard to measure how much +5 rebels actually mean in economic output.

PS : If it turns out to be only Stream of Life being a problem, we can add "and prevents reduction of unrest by spell effects" to specifically address the problem, but if it's weak overall, then we need to do better.
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I specifically said chaos is very scary :P I just think they have lots of counters, compared to say, sorcery very rares.

Therefore, i think it's in a good place, maybe. Stream of Life i think is a bigger issue than worrying about great wasting. But I think you should definitely watch the change to stream of life before worrying about possible changes to great wasting. And I would probably say IF you go the route of putting something in, just put in something like '2 unrest that can't be taken away, regardless of spells or buildings; and then 3 more unrest that can be solved as normal'. That way stream of life still has some effect, it just doesn't get rid of all of it (which I think would be a better way to handle it than an all or nothing.) That would also solve the problem of things like Cult Leaders on certain races completely ignoring great wasting just through buildings.
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btw...wouldn't it be a lot more awesome if Great Wasting was called Doomsday instead? Or is that name too similar to Armageddon?
Maybe increasing the corruption rate even further (or base it on land size) could be the best way to deal with it? As long as Shaman can't deal with the corruptions effectively, that should work pretty well (except if Gaia's Blessing and Consecration are present but I'm ok with those countering it, they are rare+ spells)
...or am I overthinking it and the spell is actually powerful enough?
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Doomsday is a MUCH cooler (and more thematic!) name than the Great Wasting!!

IMHO increasing Corruption Rate is a really good thing for the spell; I've had it used against me once, and I've cast it myself once, and both times I felt the corruption part was extremely underwhelming.
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