RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Zara of the Ottomans

[Sockboy]

I guess I'm just trying to work out what WE want out of this play. Helping Ruff is all well and good, but if we can get a NAP from the Incans than I feel we got something out of it (more than just helping an ally).

Agree that what we really don't want is the Incan's getting real big, but we've prevented that already (or we will once Ruff hooks his copper. Ruff can use some time to build up before going back to his (now) primary mission of Killing Inca! At the very least he can get some granaries up so whipping isn't quite as painful for him, it becomes even less painful if he can get up to his courthouses which half whip anger...

I still think it's worth finding out what terms Ruff would accept in the short term.

[WarriorKnight]

I'm not in charge of diplo, but this seemed important...

Well to answer this, we have to try and figure out the war so far.

I think that the Inca thought they caught Ruff off guard but Ruff had archers waiting, which makes their plan to attack with 3 axes and 2Q's fail. Then just pillaged for a bit and chased the workers until they found the 2nd city slightly undefended and then we intervene with units that can crush their units.

The truth is the Incan's have the advantage ATM since the war is in Ruff's lands. Therefore we need to prop Ruff up a bit (by getting rid of his units inside his territory) to make it more difficult for the Incan's, who are one of our enemies (outside CAN).

Anyway, we should kill the remaining units and then learn from there since propping Ruff up is in our interests. But there is no way we actually tell them what we really get.

[WarriorKnight]

Lots of stuff happening on T63:

TTD is here . Since we are one of the important teams since we have pottery, we have alphabet along with every other ancient tech except monotheism and HBR (dunno if this is classical of ancient, i think it's classical but doesn't matter). We also have OB with every member of the alliance we have met except Carthage (they haven't logged in yet).

Valeria moved 2W. The french warrior is 6W1S of us apparently so let's just keep going in that direction.

Our new chariot (Levit I think?) lived the barb warrior encounter with 2.9 health but a bear appeared . I moved him back to our city site for safety.

I followed the signs for the worker orders since we are on a 12 hour timer.

We have peace with Ruff since all of the Incan units have moved out of range. We also got OB, med and arch. We have given Ruff both of the chariots since we now can thanks to TTD and we can avoid miscommunication between military generals. He has promised some 'interest' which is at least a missionary.

Should we get peace with Inca's? Getting rid of the timer would be useful but after TTD, i'm not sure they would agree. What do you think?

[WarriorKnight]

From what ruff has said i don't think he's interested in peace, once he gets his copper hooked up he's going to just be interested in Killing Inca.

Probably, although he probably would like to improve some of his lands as well.

Why should we be spending time justifying ourselves to the Inca anyway, i didn't and still don't hear them justifying their attack on Ruff to us. it is just better for our national interests to have ruff to our North rather than an aggresive Inca nation.... at least until we have Jannis

Agree

changing subject ATWA never really got off the ground but i wonder if the idea isn't sound, perhaps we should think about reforming it with different members. Us, DIM, Pacal perhaps, Ruff. We could then think about expanding westward at a later date into Egypt/India

It's AWTA . I think the current setup is best for us, problem is that we haven't talked to India much so not trusting there ATM. I think expanding into Carthage at a later date is better than into Egypt/India (who is probably better at war anyway) but this is all future talk.

I guess I'm just trying to work out what WE want out of this play. Helping Ruff is all well and good, but if we can get a NAP from the Incans than I feel we got something out of it (more than just helping an ally).

I doubt Inca's would sign anything not involving Ruff in some way. An NAP would be good but we will have to ask Ruff about his thoughts about peace.

[ad hoc]

Logged in this morning to check on game and the diplo screen came up, once for peace treaty with Inca and once with OB with Carthage, didn't do anything on both of them i'll leave diplo to our Foreign Secretary WK.

we'll have to discuss peace with ruff, a phoney war might be the best thing for us, Inca would only fall further behind.

TTD went well, tech tree looks good, BTTD next then

[Sockboy]

Probably should have taken some pics now that TTD has gone through, the big news is that Athlete and Co do not have Hunting, as we can see they have it available for research in the diplomacy screen. That means they're probably worried about some chariots coming over and saying 'hi' since they lack a couter unit to them! I reckon we can get a pretty good deal for peace out of them, provided we can do so without screwing Ruff over. I think they also do *not* have access to our graph at present, so can't see that we don't have a small armada of chariots headed their way If they've been watching the scoreboards they'll know we've been whipping

So we need to send a couple of diplo messages I think, one to Ruff asking him what terms he'd accept from the Incans, then one to the Incans saying we're considering the peace offer, but would want some additional terms to the straight in game peace deal (might want to mention they'd need to cut ruff in on the same deal).

It might be worthwhile pointing out to Ruff that the Incans don't have hunting (although chances are he's already seen that).

[WarriorKnight]

OB with Carthage is fine. Since Inca came to us for a peace, we should see what we can get from it after we talk to Ruff.

Diplo update:

NS:

Cleaning out the inbox, I just noticed we have not responded to this yet. Krill and England have just met, and we have sent England in your direction. Assuming things go well (and we can't see them anymore so we don't have that intelligence right now) they should be meeting you in a turn or two, coming in from your south around the spot we first met.

Good news, expect to meet England soon. Sent a thanks message in return.

To DJ:

DJ Civ

Well that sucks. You have our condolences. We hope you guys can bounce back from this setback.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Not much needs to be said.

To Ruff:

Hi Ruff

Now that you have some units that you can defend yourself with, it seems the Incan's have changed their tune. They have offered us peace in game but we haven't accepted yet since we wanted to consult you on this matter since you probably will be included. What do you want to do now? You might not want peace since you want to KILL INCA!!! But you might want peace to improve your lands. Anyway, what do you think about this?

Also, Dantski expressed interest in meeting up with you. Do you inform us where your appropriately named 'Defog river and find Portugal' so we can inform Dantski?

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

We need to know Ruff future in order to make peace with the Incans. Also mentioned the scout that Portugal asked a while ago (the war had higher priority)

[Sockboy]

Ruff sent a quick message saying this discussion should be with the AWTA since peace with Incans may send Incans troops towards India, that's a fair call.

Diplo responses from AWTA:

Apparently Inca has dialed up Ottoman and asked for peace. They haven't contacted me. If I sign peace, then it will throw some of their units out of my land towards India. I am sure you don't want that.

I can hunt them down and kill them. Also, keeping them in a war might stop them doing what Inca should have been doing (settler spam). What do you guys think?

At a minimum, I am going to ask for war reparations (2 farms, 1 mine destroyed).

Ruff

Well,


The longer you can bog down the Inca, the better for the Cartel I suppose. But with peace you will be able to develop your lands, and get back at them in 15-20 turns with Horse Archers and Catapults...


Ilios

I think we are better off making peace, building up, then killing them later with initiative and a tech advantage. However, we can't survive an attack from them. I think the best thing is if it is a trilateral peace treaty that includes a NAP with India.

Darrell

and finally I sent a message back making sure we're all on the same page.

Just for the record, the Incans offered us peace in game but we've not
received any diplomatic messages from them regarding terms or
conditions. Ruff you mention reparations, how would you want payment,
in units? There's not much else of value they can hand you at present
other than a NAP.

We as a team would prefer doing what Darrell has suggested, i.e.
getting peace for 30 or so turns, then coming back with higher tier
units. I will add that including India in the peace treaty may direct
them towards DIM who are their next nearest CAN member, although I
think their forces will be split if they declare peace with Ruff and
chances are they head back into settler spam mode now that the rush
has failed. If we wait a turn or two whilst negotiations take place,
Ruff might be able to eliminate a couple of the units in the area in
any case, reducing the chance that any sizable force can head towards
India.

We'll send a message to the Incans to start negotiations.

Ok, so Ruff wants some compensation which makes sense, I'd want it too in his situation, but not really sure what the Incans can offer him at present other than a NAP. I doubt they'll gift him their military units, he probably would take a worker if they can get it to him somehow, and cash is always welcome, but no one has currency yet. I think that if the Incans are serious about peace they'll want to move to settler spamming, particularly now that TTD has gone down and they've been caught out. I'm not sure how serious they are about peace though ATM. getting that request for peace without any other diplo message seems a bit like fishing to me, anyway we should snd them a message about it. I'll draft one up and post it here for changes before we send it.

[Sockboy]

How about this?

Mighty Incans,

We saw your in game request for peace but rejected it as we hadn't discussed such an action with our team. This is not to say we're not interested in a peace deal, but were surprised to not receive any message about the offer. If you are truly interested in peace between our civilizations then we would need the following assurances.

1) The Aztecs and Incans will also make peace.
2) We all agree to a NAP with a minimum duration of 30 turns and a 10 turn cooldown.
3) You also agree to a NAP with the Indians with the same duration and cooldown.
4) Ruffs demands

We feel that this is a fair exchange between the teams involved giving us all time to recover from this military action. You may feel differently. Let us know what you think of our offer.

If we accept our terms as they stand then offer us peace again in game. We will accept and peace will reign between our two civilizations. Otherwise, prepare to meet our chariots on the field of battle.

[WarriorKnight]

Ruff:

Are you having a bad day? Is everything stacked against you today? Do you need a laugh ...

READ ON!!

Hi Ruff,

We have decided that continuing this war isn't in our best interest anymore.
So we've made an in game peace proposal. We asked Hunting and Meditation and are willing to sign a long term NAP with your civilization.
Maybe there can be even further cooperation in the (near) future.

We know you might think we're asking for much, but considering how this game is going, it's a cheap deal for you.
We can keep whipping our cities and bring in more axes and very soon chariots, since we've got horses in our second city's first ring.
We're pretty sure we can keep a bigger military and keep your cities very small and all tiles unimproved.
And all the techs you have won't change that one iota.

But, as said before, we like to leave that aggresive past behind us and move into a peacefull future with our close neighbours.

We hope to hear from you soon.

Nakor for JANK

I think given that we have revealed that we are on Ruff's side, one team should get peace for the both of them. Otherwise either team could be left out. Given that they have contacted Ruff directly, he is probably the right one to negotiate peace for both of us.

Any definite peace proposal needs Ruff on board, so we shouldn't really send anything to them yet. Given that they contacted us for peace without any diplo message with it, I wouldn't mind waiting a bit longer.