Abolish the distinction between Arcanus and Myrran races

[Tlaloc]

Currently players can start with Arcanus races on Myrror, but can't start with Myrran races on Arcanus. Would it be feasible to abolish the distinction between Arcanus and Myrran races and have all races available to start with regardless of whether the Myrran retort is chosen?

Players would then get to play the previously Myrran races more frequently than they do now, raising player interest, and it would increase the diversity of races encountered in the average game. It would also reduce the value of the generally overpowered Myrran retort somewhat, since its sole benefit would then be to start the player on a plain with richer minerals and fewer neighbors, which would still be well worth 2 picks.

What do people think of this idea?

[Seravy]

Myrran races are designed to be superior, and I'm not going to rebalance them all to match Arcanus power levels.

[Nelphine]

I agree with Seravy.

[Nelphine]

Although for me its the new player factor - myrran only had one obvious advantage the race. If you take that away only experienced players will have a clue why its worth 2 picks. It needs to stay

[Domon]

well, i undestand that myrran nowadays in not worth 2 points for the human player, so some kind of revision could be good for the game.

maybe the myrran retort could stay at 2, change its name, and be about getting those races (with an addedo bonus if 2 picks are too much, but no big rebalancing) and another retort could be about starting in the myrran plane with only 2 other wizards and cost 1

or stuff. whatever. just brainstorming. i always fear i'm not communicating how much respect i have for your work here well enough :/

[Nelphine]

No, if anything Myrran is worth more than 2 picks, just from starting with less opponents on the same plane (and almost as importantly, having multiple opponents on the other plane who will fight each other, or at least, split the space and so be weaker in the late game).

However, that benefit by itself is hard to quantify - thus, you need something else that appears to be helpful (races and minerals) although in reality neither of those things is particularly great (races might be worth half a pick; there are some strategies, such as my lizardmen, where arcanus races are actually better than any myrran race; and for minerals, well, more opponents sharing myrran minerals means the human getting them is probably a wash.)

So, I think it's best for Myrran to stay as 2 picks; but it needs to do something 'obvious' that's worth those 2 picks, which is what the race is about.

[Seravy]

However, that benefit by itself is hard to quantify - thus, you need something else that appears to be helpful (races and minerals) although in reality neither of those things is particularly great (races might be worth half a pick; there are some strategies, such as my lizardmen, where arcanus races are actually better than any myrran race; and for minerals, well, more opponents sharing myrran minerals means the human getting them is probably a wash.)

So, I think it's best for Myrran to stay as 2 picks; but it needs to do something 'obvious' that's worth those 2 picks, which is what the race is about.

I expect this benefit to be much more obvious after the latest Myrran specific AI changes (more effective settler production for the early game), but it'll still only apply to extreme and above so for the rest of the levels, the big thing remains the race.

[Nelphine]

Yeah, I'm extremely worried about my current extreme game. Sure I defeated Ariel super early
But my next target is raven (nature/sorcery); and he's using stasis on me about every third turn (half my armies are stuck in bits and pieces all over the map, since he can target without being able to see). The third arcanus wizard is.. Kali. Death/sorcery. Who has started getting city curses, so I have to spend all my overland skill on consecration instead of on more armies to defeat raven.

And the myrror wizard is Horus.. Life/sorcery.

I think I am going to be delayed so much on arcanus Horus is just going to walk all over me, especially with the new myrran settling. (And since I'm playing poor minerals.. With no chaos wizards.. Horus is going to have a noticeable mineral advantage.)

[Catwalk]

I agree that the distinction should remain. However, I think it would be great if Myrran was reduced to 1 pick and enemy AI is set up so there's always 2 Myrror and 2 Arcanus wizards. That way you always have 2 wizards expanding with relative ease far away from you and 2 wizards coming for your throat. That way we can balance Myrror specifically based on the value of a stronger race and better terrain specials. There's too much luck in the current system IMO (yes, I know it's always been that way).

Alternately, guaranteeing 1x Myrror AI and 3x Arcanus AI would also work. I like that less personally, but at least it would abolish the luck factor.

[Nelphine]

Its not luck. You get 2 myrror when the Hunan chooses myrran, and 1 if the human doesn't. (And there might be a tiny chance of a third myrran opponent if the human is myrran.?)

And I'm on your side catwalk. I tried to get seravy to make it difficulty based/and based on number of opponents/and based on whether human had the myrran retort - so that you would slways have the samr number on your plane regardless of the retort, and the number on your plane would be based on difficulty. With 4 opponents, Impossible would always have 3 on your plane, Normal would always have 1 on your plane; hard/extreme would both have 2. (Hard would only have 2 if 4 opponents, extreme would have 2 even if only 3 opponents).