As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer

Create an account  

 
My sprite strategy

As requested, here is my attempt at coming up with a "formula" for how I play sprites. It's more or less the same every game, although Omniscient should make the games slightly more varied due to having more colours at my disposal. Bear with me if it looks rushed, Seravy requested that I make it available in time for the start of his next game. Seravy, do you want to upload the game you start so we can all try it for comparison? Note that after Conjurer is weakened I recommend swapping it for another Nature book (taking Web) instead.

1) Early magic priorities
a. Heavenly Light on any city that doesn't have it.
b. Earth Lore (centered on your capital unless there is a lot of ocean).
c. If you have one or more useful targets, summon enough sprites to take out those targets.
d. When you're running low on targets, cast Earth Lore again to locate more.
e. Run max mana until you can fuel your casting skill fully with it, then start prioritizing skill.
f. Do crash spending on research whenever something really important is available (especially useful combat spells and Summoning Circle) and you feel you can afford it (typically after you have a node or 2 cities with Shrine + Heavenly Light).

2) Strategic priorities
a. Neutral cities with zero threats are top priority.
b. Sorcery nodes with zero threats are almost as high priority, especially if there aren't nagas.
c. Neutral cities with small threats are also very high priority (Web is a life saver here).
d. Lairs without threats should be put in your strategic plan whenever they fit, make sure to optimize your movement points.

3) Economic priorities
a. Use enough Alchemy early on that you can use all your casting skill each turn, stop using Alchemy when you've located mana treasure or your power is high enough to fuel your spells with your power base.
b. Settlers are very high priority, I recommend spamming settlers non-stop until all decent spots within 15 tiles or so are filled. Don't worry too much about defenses (change this priority a bit depending on how close your enemies are).
c. New cities should rush builder's hall => housing => sawmill => shrine (high pop sites) or sawmill => shrine (high production sites). Use spearmen for garrison as needed.
d. Once you've expanded decently and shrines are up, start putting up marketplace + granary + farmer's market + forester's guild in roughly that order (my analysis of those buildings isn't complete yet).
e. Run max taxes at all times, supplement with spearmen as needed.
f. Selling your smithy is recommended.

4) After the early game
Once you have a few cities with Heavenly Light and 1-2 nodes, you have a very strong power base. Start building bigger sprite stacks so you can take out the bigger targets, and make sure to formulate a strategic conquest plan that lets you minimize wasted movement. Give high prioritiy to Earth Lore, and try to take as many neutral cities as possible.

Depending on how close your nearest rival is, you may want to do an early strike (1404 or sooner). War Bears, skeletons or hell hounds can help greatly in assisting your main sprite stack. Find his capital quickly and send a unit of sprites to see what his defenses are comprised of. Typically there'll be nagas if he's sorcery, ghouls if he's death, sprites if he's nature and hell hounds if he's chaos. Only sprites and ghouls are a threat to you. If he doesn't have either, go for the throat as fast as possible (keep taking out other targets while you build a stack of 9 sprites and maybe a secondary stack to soften him up if necessary). It's important that the sprite stack can finish the kill, otherwise fortress lightning will tear you apart.

If you can't take out his capital, consider taking out all his outposts or let them grow to size 1 if you can commit enough troops. Your casting skill should be very high at this point, and it shouldn't take you long to conjure enough troops to go on the offensive. Don't worry too much about defenses, just make sure you have early warning of his movements.

Past 1405 or so, play it as you normally would. You're off to a powerful start unless you've been very unlucky or messed up and lost your sprites, and your economic base should be phenomenal with all the boosts each city gets. Try to consolidate your possessions and start focusing more on defense, then find your next target and take out another AI by 1408 or so. With two Arcanus wizards down you'll have a very large empire with very productive cities. Use whatever spells come your way and keep building large armies so you're ready to go on the offensive when you see a weak spot. Scout out the entire plane with Earth Lore and keep taking out all the easy nodes, you should have 5-6 in no time. Put a single unit in each for defense, don't overdo it.

You should be able to pick up a few heroes from lairs and a handful of items for them. Make the most of them, include them in your lair stomping stacks so they can pick up easy experience.

By the time you're ready to take out your third AI, chances are he'll be fairly formidable and require multiple fortress strikes to take out. Scout out his cities thoroughly so you know what defenses to plan for, build a number of medium strength stacks that can take out medium strength cities with minimal casualties. You should be able to take out 6-8 cities per fortress strike for maximum efficiency.

5) Game setup
This strategy is very reliable for almost any setup, even more so now that we have Omniscient. I like playing with High Power and Huge land, but it doesn't make that much difference. Play on Impossible, you should have better than 50% chances of winning.

6) Wizard setup
3x Nature (Sprites + Earth Lore)
2x Life (Heavenly Light)
1x Chaos
1x Death
2 Spellweaver
1 Omniscient
1 Conjurer
1 Cult Leader

I'm not 100% sure how the power bonuses compound and round, but this will get you 5 power per shrine, 8 power per Heavenly Light and 10 power per parthenon. Shrine + Parthenon Cathedral + Heavenly Light = 38 power per city.

I'm fairly certain this is the strongest setup for a sprite strategy. Note that you don't win with sprites, you just achieve a powerful start that will allow you to do anything you want a little while later. There isn't much room for change either, everything above is needed. When Conjurer is weakened I'll probably swap it for another Nature book and start with Web.

Multiple races are viable for this strategy. You will want to spam your starting race in many locations, so having access to all 3 religious buildings is a must. That leaves Halflings, High Elves, High Men, Nomads and Orcs. Of those, Halflings and High Elves have advantages that help you right out the gate: Halflings have extra food and research, High Elves have extra power. Those are my 2 favourite races for this strategy right now. Nomads are also good, letting you supplement your creatures with the excellent horsebowman unit very quickly and upgrading to the incredible ranger unit later on. High Men seem unimpressive to me, their advantages come too late to be of substantial assistance and they suffer an unrest penalty. Orcs are equally unimpressive, they grow fast but they don't have any great units.
Reply

Quote:Seravy, do you want to upload the game you start so we can all try it for comparison?

Sure. I'm going to start in an hour or so.
Reply

As an addendum, whenever you fail to get enough easy lairs early on (happens rarely, but it does happen) you need to switch gears and focus even more on expansion. Use sprites more defensively in order to let you expand at full speed, multiple cities with Heavenly Light will allow you to recover from having few early targets. If you see very little of use early on, focus more on Earth Lore rather than waste mana on sprites that won't get you any income.
Reply

Given your economic priorities, I suspect the Alchemy retort would be more effective than either the chaos book or the death book. When I first saw omniscient I was going to grab all realms too, bit the bonuses aren't quite high enough to be worth spending an entire pick on them, if you aren't using the book for anything else.
Reply

The court is now in session for the case of "Sprites are overpowered". The prosecution's appeal was accepted and now we are holding a third degree trial. Any verdict reached here is final, with no possibility of appeals on either side.
The prosecution - represented by Catwalk - claims they have evidence that the crime can be reproduced with high accuracy if their list of steps is followed.

We are going to examine this statement by using the prosecution's plan on three different samples and see the results.
We ask the jury to do the same, and share their observations on the matter. Until then, I will refrain from sharing my own experience to avoid influencing opinions and revealing information about the samples.


.gam   SAVE1.GAM (Size: 151.94 KB / Downloads: 4)

.gam   SAVE7.GAM (Size: 151.94 KB / Downloads: 3)

.gam   SAVE8.GAM (Size: 151.94 KB / Downloads: 2)
Reply

I may change my mind later on this, but I'll stick to my guns for now. I really only need to cast Heavenly Light to have enough power to fuel my spells, more so if I go Elf. After that I won't be using Alchemy much at all. Getting magical weapons also won't matter much as my early forces will be summoned.

I also do think that Omniscient is amazing. I want 6-8 books for the power and skill, and I really don't need that many spells. It makes little difference to me if I have 4 Nature, 1 Chaos and 1 Death or 6 Nature.

I was already considering dropping Conjurer because the difference between 7 and 8 books is huge. With Spellweaver I get +3 power (and skill) from book 8, that really helps me get the snowball rolling. I'll just cast slightly fewer Sprites and prioritize my targets more closely. Between Earth Lore and Heavenly Light, Sprites will probably make up only 60% or so of my mana usage. The rest of the time (and during combat), Conjurer does nothing. Less upkeep is what made it worthwhile.

If I were to skip Omniscient I'd go with this:
5x Nature (Sprites, Earth Lore, Web, Resist Elements)
5x Life (Endurance, Holy Armour, Heroism, Holy Weapon)
Spellweaver

I still get easy access to lairs, nodes and neutral cities and when I need to go to war I can generate crazy slingers to complement my handful of sprites. This setup is about quality, the one with Omniscient is about quantity. This setup is also great for heroes. You actually got me thinking, this one sounds potent too.
Reply

Seravy, can you post the setup and settings used? And is this with nerfed Conjurer?
Reply

(April 14th, 2017, 10:15)Catwalk Wrote: Seravy, can you post the setup and settings used? And is this with nerfed Conjurer?

All fair except power on Good. Exactly the same picks as you listed, with +1 Nature book instead of Conjurer (it's nerfed already here). Race is halflings.

Just finished playing the first file ("finished", as in played until 1407. I'll keep the save and might continue later but the priority is the early turns on all three files first.), but won't post my results until I complete all three.
Reply

If this is to be the final trial of sprite strength with input from everybody interested (I agree this is a good idea), I have to change my recommended setup a bit. The Omniscient setup is not tested, so I'll revert to a simple Nature setup:

8x Nature (Sprites, Web, Earth Lore, Call Centaurs, War Bears) (Transmute, Giant Spiders) (Survival Instinct)
Spellweaver
Specialist
Conjurer

I'm not sure if this is the strongest setup for sprites, but it's tested and it's simple. I'm also sticking with Halflings. Nature works well for mass spamming strategies due to Transmute, Halflings are both powerful and cheap and have significant early advantages. Revised formula as follows:

1) Early magic priorities
a. Earth Lore (centered on your capital unless there is a lot of ocean).
b. If you have one or more useful targets, summon enough sprites to take out those targets.
c. When you're running low on targets, cast Earth Lore again to locate more.
d. Run max mana until you can fuel your casting skill fully with it, then start prioritizing skill.
e. Do crash spending on research whenever something really important is available (Resist Elements, Nature's Eye, Giant Spiders, Transmute are all great additions early on).

2) Strategic priorities
a. Neutral cities with zero threats are top priority.
b. Sorcery nodes with zero threats are almost as high priority, especially if there aren't nagas.
c. Neutral cities with small threats are also very high priority (Web is a life saver here).
d. Lairs without threats should be put in your strategic plan whenever they fit, make sure to optimize your movement points.

3) Economic priorities
a. Use enough Alchemy early on that you can use all your casting skill each turn, stop using Alchemy when you've located mana treasure or your power is high enough to fuel your spells with your power base.
b. Settlers are very high priority, I recommend spamming settlers non-stop until all decent spots within 15 tiles or so are filled. Don't worry too much about defenses (change this priority a bit depending on how close your enemies are).
c. New cities should rush builder's hall => housing => sawmill (high pop sites) or just sawmill (high production sites). Use spearmen for garrison as needed.
d. Once you've expanded decently and shrines are up, start putting up marketplace + granary + farmer's market in roughly that order (my analysis of those buildings isn't complete yet).
e. Run max taxes at all times, supplement with spearmen as needed.
f. Selling your smithy is recommended.

4) After the early game
Once you have a few cities with Heavenly Light and 1-2 nodes, you have a very strong power base. Start building bigger sprite stacks so you can take out the bigger targets, and make sure to formulate a strategic conquest plan that lets you minimize wasted movement. Give high prioritiy to Earth Lore, and try to take as many neutral cities as possible.

Depending on how close your nearest rival is, you may want to do an early strike (1404 or sooner). War Bears can help greatly in assisting your main sprite stack. Find his capital quickly and send a unit of sprites to see what his defenses are comprised of. Typically there'll be nagas if he's sorcery, ghouls if he's death, sprites if he's nature and hell hounds if he's chaos. Only sprites and ghouls are a threat to you. If he doesn't have either, go for the throat as fast as possible (keep taking out other targets while you build a stack of 9 sprites and maybe a secondary stack to soften him up if necessary). It's important that the sprite stack can finish the kill, otherwise fortress lightning will tear you apart.

If you can't take out his capital, consider taking out all his outposts or let them grow to size 1 if you can commit enough troops. Your casting skill should be very high at this point, and it shouldn't take you long to conjure enough troops to go on the offensive. Don't worry too much about defenses, just make sure you have early warning of his movements.

Past 1405 or so, play it as you normally would. You're off to a powerful start unless you've been very unlucky or messed up and lost your sprites, and your economic base should be phenomenal with all the boosts each city gets. Try to consolidate your possessions and start focusing more on defense, then find your next target and take out another AI by 1408 or so. With two Arcanus wizards down you'll have a very large empire with very productive cities. Giant Spiders will now form a big part of your shock troops when going to war. You should also be able to spam adamantium lizards before too long with the help of Transmute. Scout out the entire plane with Earth Lore and keep taking out all the easy nodes, you should have 5-6 in no time. Put a single unit in each for defense, don't overdo it.

You should be able to pick up a few heroes from lairs and a handful of items for them. Make the most of them, include them in your lair stomping stacks so they can pick up easy experience.

By the time you're ready to take out your third AI, chances are he'll be fairly formidable and require multiple fortress strikes to take out. Scout out his cities thoroughly so you know what defenses to plan for, build a number of medium strength stacks that can take out medium strength cities with minimal casualties. You should be able to take out 6-8 cities per fortress strike for maximum efficiency.
Reply

All right, in this case I'll generate 3 new maps with the "basic" setup. I will need to upload the new conjurer version too.

I suppose there is no reason to hide it any longer, the first game went well but almost all the advantage I gained was the result of the Cult Leader+Omniscient combo and the very unusual map geography, Sprites barely did anything. The defense was about to yell "Objection" and state that the prosecution managed to prove the culprit is Cult Leader instead of Sprites. Fortunately the prosecution changed their claim just in time to avoid that.
75% Cult Leader might be overpowered, we'll need to test it more but that's for another day.

Please download "SpritesTest.zip" from the usual download folder for the latest version of Conjurer.
Here are the three save file I'm going to play - settings as before except wizard now has 8 Nature, Conjurer, Spellweaver, Specialist.

.gam   SAVE6.GAM (Size: 151.94 KB / Downloads: 6)
.gam   SAVE7.GAM (Size: 151.94 KB / Downloads: 2)
.gam   SAVE8.GAM (Size: 151.94 KB / Downloads: 1)


As they were unspecified, I picked the following spells :
Sprites, Earth Lore, Resist elements, Web, War Bears
Giant Spiders, Great Lizard
Survival Instinct

Race is still Halflings.
I have no idea what is in these save files but I really hope it won't be something as ridiculous as the first file in the previous batch. This is how that game went for me :
Game 1 (Cult Leader, Omniscient etc)
Massive power base thanks to cult Leader+Heavenly Light/Shrine/etc. and uncontrolled expansion.
Starting continent covers about 60% of the world map and has no enemy wizards.
The 3 Arcanus AI wizards are busy fighting wars for the remaining 40% and don't even appear until 1404.
Sprites work but are insignificant. Most of the targets could have been cleared using bears or ghouls.
First node in 1403, second node in second half of 1404, costing a lot sprites.
1 item, 1 hero, 1 book, mostly mana and gold in smaller amounts. Generally few targets.
Resist Elements not available for research or trade, so heavy losses at second node (many sprites, some bears).
Due to all the different realms, massive amounts of trading done. Lots of good commons.
However, due to the large amount of commons to research, even at a very high RP production it takes
dozens of turns to get anything interesting.
By the time Planar Travel shows up, the other plane is already filled by the Myrran wizard.
I traded it for Just Cause, Heroism and Endurance with three wizards. This shows the really strong commons are
hard to trade for - I had to offer a high value uncommon and with so few books I barely get uncommons for trade.
Missing key commons seems a likely possibility.
I was finally able to research Lycanthropy. However it's too late for that, as the primary enemy has Shadow Demons which counter Werewolves.
I might be able to hit some other wizards using them and I don't have anything better so far to rely on.
The Myrran wizard is Chaos+Nature Sage Master - they'll probably wreak havoc on the world with global spells way before I gain control of Arcanus.
The strongest Arcanus wizard, who started with Lizardmen, plays Life+Nature but got lucky and has Shadow Demons from one Death book.
This wizard is most likely not a long term threat and they are at war with the second wizard, but they are the only one with cities on my continent so I attacked them.
The second one is 7 Life, 3 Death, 2 Sorcery. Chaotic and in two wars. Probably also not a major threat.
The last one, chaos+life warlord got held back by early wars and is even weaker than me. They seem to only have one city.

I might be able to win this game if I get useful spells in my 4 Nature books (which is sadly not very likely, 4 books are too few)
but if I do it'll entirely be the result of the map, Sprites contributed barely anything. Those 500-700 gold treasures are irrelevant when
you get 100-200 gold per turn from taxes, and I certainly did as I was allowed to massively overextend.
Reply



Forum Jump: