RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Zara of the Ottomans

[ad hoc]

i think we can do the whip, i think in war turns we can't but can't remember anything about this in the planning

[WarriorKnight]

Well it seems that Sockboy has done the whip anyway. Guess it didn't matter that much.

News from Mukha:

Hi guys,

We would like to discuss the possibility of having France replaced with Babylon. This might come across as a little backstabby, but then the way I see it is you have to be friends before you can backstab and we've had a grand total of 34 words from France. Yes I'm keeping count and ranking your friendliness by your word count . They also continued to ignore our directions to meet Ottomans even though they didn't have pottery so they can't be getting much in the way of commerce (says the 4 city broke civ ). I know we can't be alone in not wanting France in the CAN as they were originally vetoed. I think Babylon are especially keen not be left struggling in the CANTs and they could be one of the few Alphabet researchers left out there. Babylon could possibly make a strike against France with our permisssion and our pledge not to come to French aid or we could just leave France out of the next round fairly peacefully. A downside is that France were in a better location strategically and this would put Babylon between Mali and Byzantium, but they do have a fairly powerful defensive UU (although it isn't much use against skirmishers or the ubiquitous HA). They already have the important financial techs so it doesn't need to be obvious that they have joined with us until the next round of trading although it could be obvious sooner depending on what ETA they gave others for Alphabet.

As the Ottomans have finally chased down the French warrior this turn for contact could they cancel their pottery gift until we discuss this unless they think this idea is too Machiavellian and far fetched. We feel that the French were signed on a little too hastily before getting to know them and their style of play, but we are happy to have our minds changed if other people have had better relations with them and can see a way that the French could develop into a powerful, trustworthy ally.

Mukha
CBE

OK, they want to replace France with Babylon. Since we only just met France and haven't met Babylon we can't really add much to this discussion. The only thing we have to go for is the France/DIM situation which favors Babylon.

Also France indeed don't have pottery, so don't gift it to them yet.

Mukha caught me in a chat while I was reading that. Not much mentioned except that they lost their Aztec scout to barbs. I think Ruff keeping Sancha until he meets Portugal is probably the right move now.

Peg, we can't expect compo from Ruff for him keeping the chariots slightly longer. Nor is giving them back to him after we have used them for the things now going to work.

[Sockboy]

For what it's worth, I think pretty much anything other than unit movement is fair game after you hit the end turn button, all I think it signifies is that you are ok with the turn ending at any time after that. I've routinely gone in and played about with the research slider and city tiles to play around with the numbers. When I saw the whip hadn't taken place today I just went ahead and did it, it didn't even occur to me that there could be issues with that. This is probably a bad habit in that if the turn does end whilst I'm playing about we're stuck with whatever settings I had set when the last team hits enter. In my defence, I've been careful not to do this when only one team needs to end turn, so I think we should be safe. I think the only rule that applies here is one saying we shouldn't be routinely changing builds late in the turn, but as I've only been doing it to check hammers, times to build, etc. before changing it back to what it was earlier, I think we're not acting in bad faith.

If we're at war I think whipping is still ok (units appear next turn), but drafting isn't (units appear this turn). At least that's my reading of the rules we voted for. Spacemanmf, do you have the lurkers point of view on this?

How do we 'tire of talking'? Has we done anything to show that we are that?

Umm... maybe by sending them a picture of a big guy holding a sword who says "Enough Talking" I pretty sure it's just a little joke.

We would like to propose an auto-renewing NAP, with a 10t cooldown, and the earliest it would be canceled is T100. If the NAP is canceled on turn X, then on turn X+10, only the civ which did NOT cancel the NAP may declare war. On turn X+11, either team may attack. Both teams agree not to spend more than 43EP against one another for the duration of the NAP + cooldown phase.

If you have one, an ETA of Iron Working would be appreciated, so that we can manage our workers to be as available as possible at that time, both for our jungled silver and for any iron Sullla decided to bestow upon our humble civ. If you wish to arrange a time to chat, the hours between noon and midnight, EST, usually work best.

Yeah this all seems good, the NAP is an interesting one, basically giving the initiative to the team which does NOT want to cancel it as I see it. I think we can agree to all the terms in there, helping them head towards India is probably best for the CAN as everyone who doesn't have Hammams will probably be keen for Monarchy :neenernee Don't forget to hand them the ETA for IW, I think it's t72 but we should check before we tell them for sure.

Also France indeed don't have pottery, so don't gift it to them yet.

Umm, if they come asking for it as their right, since they're in the CAN, should we deny them? If we do we're painting ourselves as the bad guys here. Hopefully the CAN makes a decision before this comes up... We've been put in an awkward spot here.

[Pegasus]

IIRC - this is complaint number 2 against the French.

Did DIM not have to prove there military might to fend the French off earlier in the game?

Having said that, could Portugal just be being mischievious? I don't think so in this case and why did the French ignore their advice?

Is France's actions CAN breaking? Not neccesarily, and would be extremely harsh if CAN invited them to the party. Which team did by the way? Do we need Babylon in CAN?

[WarriorKnight]

Umm... maybe by sending them a picture of a big guy holding a sword who says "Enough Talking" I pretty sure it's just a little joke.

Hmmm, well I guess I didn't get it. Ah well.

Yeah this all seems good, the NAP is an interesting one, basically giving the initiative to the team which does NOT want to cancel it as I see it. I think we can agree to all the terms in there, helping them head towards India is probably best for the CAN as everyone who doesn't have Hammams will probably be keen for Monarchy :neenernee Don't forget to hand them the ETA for IW, I think it's t72 but we should check before we tell them for sure.

Sounds good. Our ETA for IW is actually T71 now.

Umm, if they come asking for it as their right, since they're in the CAN, should we deny them? If we do we're painting ourselves as the bad guys here. Hopefully the CAN makes a decision before this comes up... We've been put in an awkward spot here.

Yes, it seems a bit difficult. I think we should hold off until they send us something. Since they didn't follow Portugal's co-ordination between the 2 of us, I think we can wait a bit.

Did DIM not have to prove there military might to fend the French off earlier in the game?

Yep.

Having said that, could Portugal just be being mischievious? I don't think so in this case and why did the French ignore their advice?

Who knows what the French intentions are? Since France ignored the directions to us then I don't see how Portugal is being mischievous.

Is France's actions CAN breaking? Not neccesarily, and would be extremely harsh if CAN invited them to the party. Which team did by the way? Do we need Babylon in CAN?

The problem with letting Babylon in is that they will be surrounded by CANT members. It isn't in their best interest to join so they might reject us and then CANT gain some info an CAN.

Personally, I would like to ditch France and get Babylon, but I don't see that happening. We could ditch both of them, but then we would lose the advantage of 9v7. Keeping France will probably be the safest option, but we don't know their intentions.

[WarriorKnight]

To Ruff:

Ruff

Sorry for the delay in replying, but we'll let you keep Sancha until you've met Portugal.

Portugal have informed us that the scout they sent to contact you has managed to get killed by barbs. They said that they were 2-3 tiles away at the time and you should continue west to find them.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

After Portugal has lost the scout to meet Ruff, I think it's best if he keeps it until he meets Portugal.

CHASM:

CHASM

The quickest route to India is to go through our lands NE until you reach our capital, then head NW until a river and then follow it to Indian lands. Ruff is similar but you'll need to head N after reaching the river. We'll help you with more specific directions once you get closer to the river.

Out team agrees on the NAP. We hope this is the first step to good relations with your team.

Our current ETA for IW is T71. Within your suggested timeframe, I'm usually online between 6pm-7pm your time, and might be online later then that depending on RL.

Thanks for the complement for the picture. We also have a DOW picture which you may or may not see later in the game . I was not aware of that website since I didn't suggest our theme, however we might start supporting it.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

The river route is indeed the quickest, but I don't see them reaching Indian land for at least another 10 turns.

Otherwise mostly standard stuff here.

Also Peg has managed a better screenshot of our lands and Ruff has glued ours and his together. Wonder when the other screenshots will be included?

[WarriorKnight]

T67:

Moved Valeria N/NW to get into a Portuguese city to heal. After that we'll probably head N to meet Exploit/Rome then to meet the 4 CANT members we're missing.

Nemedia finished a worker and this turn will finish another.

We have an axe in Aquilonia but I didn't move him since I don't quite know what to do with him.

Moved DIM's chariot down south to uncover a bit about the south before we hand it over.



Note Carthage's border to the SW (It's hidden under the mouseover text, sorry about that, it's 3SW of the chariot). While we don't really want much of the land to our S (N and W is more fertile) we do need that fur spot eventually, problem is I don't know when we will found it (not anytime soon since it looks like we'll have 6 cities before a single cottage).

[Sockboy]

Saw this mail in my inbox today...

Hello,

We have requested Pottery in game, would you oblige?

We will meet Egypt next turn, hope to make a start on some proper technology.

Please let us know if we can assist at anytime, hopefully we can get together for a chat at some point,

Best Wishes

KM

ANG_FR

Sounds like the French have finally requested Pottery. I think we've no choice but to give it to them, it's far too early to let cracks appear in the CAN. To be honest I doubt anyone is going to go for the Babylon v France swap. If anything I think they'll prefer to have both. Best not to have the French think there's a bloc forming against them and we're part of it (even if that turns out to be the case further down the road).

I notice they mention they want to start on some proper technology, does anyone have the latest list of who's researching what? I guess it doesn't matter a lot to us provided DIM come through with maths.

Speaking of which can we make sure to *not* complete the chop for Aquilonia until we've received maths, it's pretty important. I'd like to log on to check the micro but obviously don't want to cancel this deal without good reason.

Note Carthage's border to the SW (It's hidden under the mouseover text, sorry about that, it's 3SW of the chariot). While we don't really want much of the land to our S (N and W is more fertile) we do need that fur spot eventually, problem is I don't know when we will found it (not anytime soon since it looks like we'll have 6 cities before a single cottage).

Perhaps it's time we dial them up to discuss a border settlement agreement? There's some greenland down near the fur, but apart from that there's not much of interest to us, at least not that I can see. Maybe we just make sure we keep claim to the furs and some of the river grassland?

[WarriorKnight]

Sounds like the French have finally requested Pottery. I think we've no choice but to give it to them, it's far too early to let cracks appear in the CAN. To be honest I doubt anyone is going to go for the Babylon v France swap. If anything I think they'll prefer to have both. Best not to have the French think there's a bloc forming against them and we're part of it (even if that turns out to be the case further down the road).

I've spoken to DIM about this. It seems that they are probably going to be excluded from the alliance and DIM mentioned that they are going to war with them. We will however give them pottery to not arouse any suspicions and because it doesn't help them militarily.

I have no idea what's happening here but given that it doesn't affect us (after the pottery gift), it probably doesn't matter much.

I notice they mention they want to start on some proper technology, does anyone have the latest list of who's researching what? I guess it doesn't matter a lot to us provided DIM come through with maths.

Us: IW ETA T71
Carthage: Math ETA T70 (maybe T69)
DIM: HBR ETA T72 (maybe T71)
Krill: Mono ETA ???
England: Monarchy ETA T80

Perhaps it's time we dial them up to discuss a border settlement agreement? There's some greenland down near the fur, but apart from that there's not much of interest to us, at least not that I can see. Maybe we just make sure we keep claim to the furs and some of the river grassland?

We don't need one. We only want 1 city down there and Carthage have to expand a bit more to threaten the fur from us.

In other news, it looks like both Carthage and England can get masonry before math comes in . Then again, there is always some competition for wonders so we better keep to our plan.

Speaking of which can we make sure to *not* complete the chop for Aquilonia until we've received maths, it's pretty important. I'd like to log on to check the micro but obviously don't want to cancel this deal without good reason.

Micro looks fine but we should be one of the later ones to finish turn as Carthage need to give us math before the chop completes.

[WarriorKnight]

Send to CAN:

Hi everyone

Unfortunately, cancelling the pottery gift would reveal our intentions. Given that it doesn't help them militarly and it's relatively cheap (compared to the techs we are researching ATM), we have given them pottery.

It doesn't really affect us since we are far away from the action, but since we are only a few turns away from discovering some key techs (IW, math, HBR) we better make a descision quickly.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

And to France

Greetings France

We have given you pottery in game. What is this 'proper technology' that you will start on?

Sorry for the delay in sending your team a welcome message, RL has been busy lately.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

P.S. Enough Talking! is our standard sign off. See the attached picture