[SPOILER] PB37 Dark Savant tries not to be a blatant MP n00b

[Dark Savant]

Thank you for the detailed response; I appreciate it    I'll respond after the current turn report.

Turn 39 (2440 BC)

I forgot that this would happen:



This happened because I moved Sam out of our territory to build a road for 1 turn.  He'll be back in our territory next turn, but the settler we're about to produce is going to leave next turn too.

But it's a good thing we do have some of those warriors on watch.  Look at who is coming to pay us a visit:



That's just in time to possibly slip past orange dot.  (Gavagai already played before I did.)  By possibly, whether this happens depends on who moves first on turn 41.  This doesn't seem like too big a deal, but does this count as a turn split situation?   This isn't actually a war (in fact we have enforced peace for the next 5 turns), and I don't think this is a settling race, but if I can move first on t41 I can guarantee ejecting his warrior away from us.  Gavagai can't currently even see any of the worker, the completed road, or the as-yet nonexistent settler.  I'd like to know if I should try to move first on t40 so I move first on t41 as well, or wait towards the end of t40 and double-move the settler.  (Note that if Gavagai's warrior is exactly on orange dot when I plant there, his warrior gets ejected two tiles SW to the hill Frodo just finished a road on.)

But wait, there's more:



We've got another investigating warrior about to probe our borders, this one from the other direction.  (My instinct was to scout with our warriors and screen against incoming barbs, not probe like this, incidentally.)

I think we do have enough warriors to simply cover any workers working on the border, or tag-team this warrior if necessary -- if Gavagai doesn't get his warrior through (if he does, that's going to cause trouble).  We'll have copper connected by t43; we can then grow to size 4 building an axe if that's really necessary, or build extra warriors starting on t40 (I forgot these will auto-upgrade to spearmen, not axemen ... eh), but I don't think that is necessary.  (If you think I need to take extra precautions, let me know.)

There's another warrior now visible:



It looks like that warrior is returning to Gavagai's core.  My scout is going to press on beyond this jungle and familiar-looking east-west river and look for signs of Krill.

After I ended turn, I did remember to log back in and dial back research enough so that Agriculture comes in 2t not 1t, so I can apply the double-arrow bonus of Pottery to the overflow.

C&D: Gavagai showed up with a tech that appears to be an expensive one, either Animal Husbandry or more likely Bronze Working.  I can confirm this next turn on the power graph.  His second city also just reached size 2.

GermanJoey grew his capital to size 6 in just 1 turn.  He definitely has his granary already and is likely already working cottages.

[Mardoc]

That's just in time to possibly slip past orange dot.  (Gavagai already played before I did.)  By possibly, whether this happens depends on who moves first on turn 41.  This doesn't seem like too big a deal, but does this count as a turn split situation?   This isn't actually a war (in fact we have enforced peace for the next 5 turns), and I don't think this is a settling race, but if I can move first on t41 I can guarantee ejecting his warrior away from us.  Gavagai can't currently even see any of the worker, the completed road, or the as-yet nonexistent settler.  I'd like to know if I should try to move first on t40 so I move first on t41 as well, or wait towards the end of t40 and double-move the settler.  (Note that if Gavagai's warrior is exactly on orange dot when I plant there, his warrior gets ejected two tiles SW to the hill Frodo just finished a road on.)

Technically, you're allowed to play it either way.  No one will demand a reload, or any other punishment.

It's a bit unsportsmanlike to aim for a double-move for tactical advantage even outside war, though, and generally not a good idea to push the exact boundaries of the rules.  There's a reason we switched from increasingly detailed rulesets to 'don't be a jerk', and there are some grudges that still remain from the game that provoked that switch.

If it's not a hardship (like requiring you to set an alarm clock to play in the middle of the night or skip out from work), I'd suggest you aim for "try to move first on t40 so I move first on t41 as well".  If you fail, you can still try to move first on t41, but deliberately trying for a double move isn't a good idea.  Not because it's illegal, as much as because it can irritate and isn't a good habit to pick up.  Remember that you don't just want to win this game, you want to be invited to play the next and the one after that .

[Dark Savant]

As for longer-term goals:

Not going to go for religion; yeah, I thought that was too costly.  Especially not with Code of Laws; yes, courthouses have less of an effect for us than it does for others.  I don't think it would pay to research Code of Laws until we already have Currency, and that's going to be a while.  And chasing Priesthood for the Oracle is something I'll only even think of if there are still no religions founded once we're done with Pottery.

Not going to antagonize Krill; that makes sense, I hadn't thought about that.  I presume he won't mind our scout running past his start position too much, not that I even know which direction he moved in.  I'm more interested in discovering the overall shape of the map rather than getting vision on his cities.  We probably need to have our warriors watch bigger threats, anyway.

I'm currently planning to build significant numbers of cottages probably at the two cities we have now, but place many other cities on production duty.  Orange, yellow, and blue dots probably are all maximum production cities, other than the occasional random silver mine.

Animal Husbandry is the likely next research, but about trying for the Great Lighthouse, doesn't this require some hustle even with it nerfed in this mod?  I could readily chop out the Great Lighthouse at orange dot if I researched, let's see ... Sailing, Masonry, Writing, and Mathematics ... yeah, not happening fast enough, scratch Mathematics-powered chops.  I'd have add chopping to building about several dozen hammers normally, with just Sailing and Masonry, and not enough forests without Mathematics to make overflow chopping useful; I could only make use of whip overflow.  Do you think we have time to squeeze Animal Husbandry in there?  We'd be hurting for luxuries without it, I think.  I don't have a good sense for when wonders tend to fall in MP.

[Dark Savant]

Technically, you're allowed to play it either way.  No one will demand a reload, or any other punishment.

It's a bit unsportsmanlike to aim for a double-move for tactical advantage even outside war, though, and generally not a good idea to push the exact boundaries of the rules.  There's a reason we switched from increasingly detailed rulesets to 'don't be a jerk', and there are some grudges that still remain from the game that provoked that switch.

If it's not a hardship (like requiring you to set an alarm clock to play in the middle of the night or skip out from work), I'd suggest you aim for "try to move first on t40 so I move first on t41 as well".  If you fail, you can still try to move first on t41, but deliberately trying for a double move isn't a good idea.  Not because it's illegal, as much as because it can irritate and isn't a good habit to pick up.  Remember that you don't just want to win this game, you want to be invited to play the next and the one after that .

Thank you for the prompt response

In that case, I suppose I would need to let Gavagai know this if I manage to get the first turn on t40?  I don't think he'd even know about it unless he were told.

[Mardoc]

Thank you for the prompt response

In that case, I suppose I would need to let Gavagai know this if I manage to get the first turn on t40?  I don't think he'd even know about it unless he were told.

Not really, since it's not a war or a settler race, at least from your end. Generally 'hey, we're now in a turn split' goes out when you declare war, otherwise the main thing is to make a reasonable effort not to double move for advantage. Again, the main idea is to be informal and focus on the spirit of the rule, which is to simultaneously be courteous and to not delay the game unnecessarily. And for everyone to have fun, which is why it's a reasonable effort to not double move, not an absolute commandment, outside of war.

[Dark Savant]

Not really, since it's not a war or a settler race, at least from your end.  Generally 'hey, we're now in a turn split' goes out when you declare war, otherwise the main thing is to make a reasonable effort not to double move for advantage.  Again, the main idea is to be informal and focus on the spirit of the rule, which is to simultaneously be courteous and to not delay the game unnecessarily.  And for everyone to have fun, which is why it's a reasonable effort to not double move, not an absolute commandment, outside of war.

Okay, thank you.

Gavagai won't know that the turn order actually matters to me, so I'll just try to grab t41 first as well.

[Dark Savant]

Turn 40 (2400 BC)

Our settler and worker are both complete.  The settler moves north; the worker starts a pasture on the cow.  I name the new worker Kalimac Brandagamba (Merry), continuing the subtheme of obscure Lord of the Rings alternate names.  (I should get around to renaming the scout and warriors ...)  I start another worker in the capital, as planned; I feel we're short on worker labor, and we can put one out in just 3 turns.

Coeurva's warrior moved northeast:



It's not practical stopping him from taking a look at Castle Ironfist.  I do want to prevent contact between him and Gavagai.

The capital is currently unguarded, but the warrior that was off to the northwest is now on the roaded hill.

Our scout continues to plow through the jungle.  There's a single sugar there, if you're wondering about the distribution of Calendar resources.

C&D: Gavagai's technology last turn is Bronze Working, since his power graph just spiked by 8000.  dtay's and GermanJoey's second cities both grew to size 2.  Ventessel whipped his capital this turn.  No new technologies this turn.

[Dark Savant]

Sandbagging Agriculture by one turn isn't really going to accomplish anything except maybe save a little on rounding next turn, is it.

I don't usually play with this level of detail, but it's very interesting.  

[Dark Savant]

The rival warriors approached using defensive terrain (Coeurva moved north, Gavagai moved south).  I'm not sure what to do if Coeurva chooses to head west, since I'm planning on building roads in neutral territory (towards blue dot) in that area and I don't want him pillaging them.  How much of a concern is that?  Not many RB games actually feature terrain that encourages this sort of widely-spaced dotmap, so I'm unaware of much precedent for this.  Still, it's more likely his warrior will move onto the furs to get vision on Castle Ironfist.

Harmondale will put out a warrior on t44 while growing; I'm not sure yet whether it will have to head towards the capital or whether it can scout westward.  Harmondale is going to produce at least one more warrior after that, and I can whip it in a few turns after that since its whip clock will have expired and we won't yet have a pasture on the grassland cow for a third citizen to work.

dtay is the only person left to play t40.  Time to unleash the 

[Dark Savant]

Turn 41 (2360 BC)

Before founding:



After founding:



We're the first to found a third city, of course (when Krill hasn't even planted his second yet).

City #3 is named after Castleview, the first town in Might and Magic V:



It's, uh, a little far away to actually have a view of the capital, most likely.  Each tile has an area of 1,000 square kilometers, so each tile is about 20 miles on a side, which means it's about 120 miles from Castleview to Castle Ironfist, which at least on Earth is far enough away to block mutual vision owing to the Earth's curvature. 

Agriculture came in.  We don't lose any fractions researching at 80% science, which is breakeven anyway; Pottery due in 7 turns.

I continue pulling a couple warriors towards Castle Ironfist, to cover Coeurva's warrior's advance wherever he goes.  If a single Aggressive warrior isn't sufficient cover for a worker against a lone non-Aggressive warrior, please let me know.  (I'm not sure if I'd roll the dice at 31.8% odds to seriously hurt someone else's game myself.)

Our scout finds some familiar-looking furs, punctuated by the conspicuous absence of Krill:



Istanbul is 6 east and 14 north of Castle Ironfist, and the same relationship exists between Istanbul and Krill's original position.  That suggests that Cowboy Rhapsody is 7 west, 8 south of blue dot.  That would be closer than I originally thought -- we should investigate that.

C&D: CML's second city grew to size 3; both of Ventessel's cities grew, to sizes 4 and 2 (recovering the whipped population last turn).  No new technologies, and neither of our neighbors show any increases in soldier score.