My wife, generally terrible at buying me presents, got me a 3DS a few years back bundled with Super Mario 3D Land. Cool gift and I was touched, but unfortunately I'm super PC-biased so while I played and beat the pack-in game I've never bought anything else for it.
My daughter is six and has enough mechanical dexterity to play the 3DS now so I've essentially handed it down to her. She's played through 3D Land as well and since her birthday is later this month I plan to buy her a couple other games.
Apparently Pokémon is still a thing, and since her teacher at school gave away tiny Pokémon figurines as class prizes my daughter's class got pretty into it. Wikipedia tells me there are three main series Pokémon games for 3DS, Sun/Moon being the latest. I don't know if anyone on RB plays the series, but if so I'd be grateful for advice on whether Sun or Moon is the best choice, or if an older game for the handheld is better.
As a bonus, I'd also welcome thoughts on a potential second game. I'm leaning towards New Super Mario Bros. 2, but also considering Animal Crossing: New Leaf and even NintenDogs+Cats (!). My daughter will be seven, so I think Fire Emblem, Smash Bros., and the two Mario property RPG games are probably out. Mario Kart is out since according to my wife the version I have on Gamecube means we "already have it."
First of all, the Pokemon versions have almost no difference between the paired versions, just a minor difference in available Pokemon. Ideally you'd get the version your daughter's friends don't have, or if you know which Pokemon your daughter likes specifically that could help guide a decision.
As for which of the three series to get (it'll be four in November), I'm not really sure--does she have any experience with the games, or just through other media? My gut would say Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, but I want to know more about her experience first. (though honestly, they're mostly interchangeable--get whatever's cheapest )
As for the second game, I think I'd stay away from NSMB2--it wasn't that good, and the whole theme of it was collecting a bunch of coins for some reason. If you want a 2D Mario platformer, I'd actually go with Super Mario Maker 3DS--even if you ignore the creation aspects it apparently has a lot of good levels packed in (and then you can get more curated levels from the internet, or trade levels with friends. I'd also try to push back on Mario Kart 7--show your wife some of the gliding and/or underwater sections if you want to show it's different. I don't remember the Mario and Luigi games being that inappropriate, though maybe they're E10+ (and regardless, stay far away from Paper Mario: Sticker Star; that's one of the worst Nintendo games of the decade). AC might also be a good choice, if your daughter doesn't need her game to have a goal.
One more important point: the 3DS is fully backwards-compatible with original DS games, so that widens your options considerably: four more distinct Pokemon games, other 2D and 3D Mario games, etc.
As one of the younger members of RB, most likely, I bought a 2DS packaged with Sun last November when I learned, to my surprise, that nearly all of my friends had been following the Pokémon games when I'd thought I'd been the last to abandon them, rather than the first (at Diamond/Pearl, when my age barely broke double digits). So I joined in again. The purchase was motivated mainly because I own no more than two dozen video games and wanted one to play with them, but the game proved to get me on the hook again on its own merits. I'll talk about those, indulge or humor me...
But one technicality first. The older Pokémon games are not always compatible with the younger ones. I think Sun/Moon cannot connect to Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, for example. So if your daughter wants to trade pokémon with her friends, and they have Sun/Moon, you should probably get her the same. I don't think the older games are much cheaper, anyway (on the contrary, they can fetch more than 60$). If her best friend has Sun, you may consider buying Moon and vice versa, for the reason Cheater Hater mentioned (version-exclusive pokémon that they can trade with each other).
Sun/Moon themselves provide not much of a challenge, although seven-year-old kids will see that differently, except for multiplayer and the Battle Tree, which is fun (if also frustrating). In fact, I think the Tree would fit the taste of RB during its single-player challenge days.
In the Tree, you bring a team of pokémon of your choice and defeat as many computer-controlled opponents in a row as possible, who use the same number of monsters on their teams: three in single battles, four in doubles, two (plus two computer-controlled) in "multis". By nature, intelligence will be on your side and luck on the computer's, since it only has to roll, say, that elusive 5% chance of Air Slash missing once to potentially end your winning streak. Apart from finding a reliable strategy, you'll have to make sure that none of the possible threats defeat you outright or in certain team combinations -- which is quite difficult when you have so few slots on your team. The EV spread system (think of sliders that you can use to increase your pokémon's stats, but only up to a certain total investment) and natures (+10% on one selected stat, -10% on another) leave lots of room for micro-management before the battle even begins ("with this HP/Def/SAtk investment and a Modest nature, I can guarantee my Eviolite-equipped Porygon2 barely surviving max Atk Gallade-Mega's Close Combat, and knock it out in return with a Download-boosted Tri Attack", etc.) -- the game can be surprisingly deep.
You're free to either optimize your team to maximize your winning streak, or bring in your favourites and try to make them work, even if they're less than optimal (this is where I could see the "seek additional challenges" part incoming, in spades).
The Tree and its predecessors in older games are where kids first realize that they don't know half of this game, speaking from experience. The Battle Frontier in Emerald must have been where I first developed a taste for strategy games. In fact, I think the very next game I bought (i.e. had my parents buy) after that was Civ4.
Playing against other humans is the most interesting, though. Since it doesn't really concern your questions, if you don't want to read about that, just skip the spoiler.
Teams are made of six monsters you can pick freely, and one will be active at a time in single battle mode, or two in double battles. On each turn, a player can switch out their active monster(s) for another, or select an attack. The type chart system, as well as the potential for customization in equippable items and move selection (can only pick one item and four moves per monster, from a much wider pool), along with the latter information being hidden initially, allows for ample prediction/bluffing as tactical means to execute a strategy. The value of your pokémon fluctuates depending on what your opponent holds as answers (switch-ins) to them, and answers may turn into non-answers as they accrue damage and can no longer tank the move they need to, or find themselves hit by a surprisingly effective move.
An example: if your opponent switches out his Heatran (a pokémon that takes 4x damage from Ground-type moves) against yours, he probably lacks the Ground move Earth Power, commonly seen on Heatran, and expected it from you -- you can base your play on that scouted tidbit later, but he might have bluffed to surprise you with Earth Power on the second opposition of Heatrans. His strategy, then, would have been to induce you to play less cautiously with your other (real) answers to his Heatran, since his earlier switch suggested that you could always rely on your own Heatran as a presumably safe check.
Or consider this: if you have Heatran in against Landorus-Therian (which always carries Earthquake, a strong Ground-type move), a good play might be to switch to a flying teammate, to nullify the Earthquake -- unless your opponent anticipates this, and uses the "free turn" produced by the threat of Earthquake to lay down Stealth Rock instead (an "entry hazard" that damages your guys as they switch in, very dangerous because intelligent switching wins games), or uses Supersonic Skystrike to heavily damage your switch-in -- unless you anticipate this again, predicting the prediction, and leave Heatran in, whose typing resists the Skystrike...
You can also invent specific lures by using rather heterodox moves; my current favourite is Choice Scarf Heatran carrying Stone Edge. The scarf boosts its speed tremendously (by 50%) but locks it into the first move it uses, until it switches out (thus the "choice" part); an opposing Charizard gleefully clicking Hidden Power Ground, perhaps even expecting to surprise you, finds itself outsped by surprise in turn, and thus knocked out first with a Stone Edge (unless that move misses, and I think any chance reader who has played this game before knows exactly what Stone Edge does best, at 20% odds). Of course, afterwards, your opponent will switch in something that resists the Stone Edge, knowing that you're locked in, as Heatran outspeeding Charizard clearly telegraphs its scarf, and pick up the "momentum" of the battle in doing so, as you'll be forced to react to his threat again -- or lose Heatran, which might also be an option if you no longer need it.
One important property of the game lies in simultaneous rather than sequential turns; there is nothing like the button position in Hold'em, for example; both players must act at the same time each turn; their actions then execute according to who has the higher Speed stat (except that switching out one's active pokémon has priority over almost every move; there are also priority moves that ignore speed unless met with another priority move, and there's one move -- Pursuit -- that goes off before the switch occurs and deals more damage if so, but let's not get lost in detail ). The EV "sliders" and natures come in again here; choosing to invest into Speed can pay off to get that important first strike -- or backfire if you would outspeed anyway, but can't get the extra damage needed.
From that tangent on why the games can be enjoyed even above age 7, back to your questions.
A dozen monsters are only available in Sun, and a dozen only in Moon: you have to trade for the others. Other than that, the most notable difference between the pair is that Moon shifts the clock by 12 hours, so it will be 3 a.m. in-game if your daughter plays at 3 p.m. real time. I don't think there are any other interesting differences.
You could show her the list of version-exclusive mons and ask her which roster she prefers; that's how I decided whether I wanted Gold or Silver for Christmas many suns and moons ago. (It was Gold, due to Mantine. I adored rays at the time; there was a public aquarium in a resort on the Baltic where I would watch them.)
From the standpoint of getting the mechanically most interesting pokémon without trading, which is especially difficult with the legendaries -- one should always pick Moon; Passimian is much worse than Oranguru (which has a unique niche in Instruct; irrelevant if you don't enjoy doubles), Kartana is worse than Celesteela (although both are interesting, but Celesteela is both more customizable and more useful), and Buzzwole worse than Pheromosa (although Buzzwole isn't bad, arguably even more fun to work with due to Focus Punch requiring some thought, but there's a reason why the latter is facetiously nicknamed "Deoxys-Bug"). Sun's only advantage is that Ninetales-Alola is better than Sandslash-Alola and has a unique niche in Aurora Veil, but both aren't great. Solgaleo is better than Lunala, but those two are not allowed in the Battle Tree due to being "too good", and most of the official tournaments don't allow them either. All the other version-exclusives are not particularly important.
Yeah, I enjoy this game. Might post more about it on RB in the future; I've tacitly assumed that there's no audience here, but you never know...
(June 10th, 2017, 01:42)Cheater Hater Wrote: First of all, the Pokemon versions have almost no difference between the paired versions, just a minor difference in available Pokemon. Ideally you'd get the version your daughter's friends don't have, or if you know which Pokemon your daughter likes specifically that could help guide a decision.
As for which of the three series to get (it'll be four in November), I'm not really sure--does she have any experience with the games, or just through other media? My gut would say Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, but I want to know more about her experience first. (though honestly, they're mostly interchangeable--get whatever's cheapest )
As for the second game, I think I'd stay away from NSMB2--it wasn't that good, and the whole theme of it was collecting a bunch of coins for some reason. If you want a 2D Mario platformer, I'd actually go with Super Mario Maker 3DS--even if you ignore the creation aspects it apparently has a lot of good levels packed in (and then you can get more curated levels from the internet, or trade levels with friends. I'd also try to push back on Mario Kart 7--show your wife some of the gliding and/or underwater sections if you want to show it's different. I don't remember the Mario and Luigi games being that inappropriate, though maybe they're E10+ (and regardless, stay far away from Paper Mario: Sticker Star; that's one of the worst Nintendo games of the decade). AC might also be a good choice, if your daughter doesn't need her game to have a goal.
One more important point: the 3DS is fully backwards-compatible with original DS games, so that widens your options considerably: four more distinct Pokemon games, other 2D and 3D Mario games, etc.
Thanks very much CH! I've checked and she's not asked her friends at school whether they have a 3DS or not, so no insight on matching her version to theirs. And in any case as it's the summer she'll likely not be trading for a while anyways, if at all.
She has zero experience with the games. She has collected a handful of figurines from school, and she's started watching some of the animated series on Netflix based on that. Her favorite Pokemon are Pikachu and Bulbasaur, so I don't think she's on the bleeding edge.
For the second game, I appreciate the NSMB2 and Sticker Star feedback, I was a operating under the impression both were pretty good. I could have been more clear about the RPG series - I'm assuming given the theme neither will be content-inappropriate, I just wasn't sure if the pacing and length would hold her interest. But maybe I'm selling her short, I played FF2(IV) at like 8 so I don't know... I'm personally interested in Maker though, so maybe picking that for the second option will be a win/win.
(June 10th, 2017, 05:02)Coeurva Wrote: You could show her the list of version-exclusive mons and ask her which roster she prefers; that's how I decided whether I wanted Gold or Silver for Christmas many suns and moons ago. (It was Gold, due to Mantine. I adored rays at the time; there was a public aquarium in a resort on the Baltic where I would watch them.)
Thanks Coeurva, if I go Sun/Moon I may do this, assuming my wife doesn't object to spoiling the surprise
Not really an expert on the subject but my sister used to play games like Harvest Moon and The Sims when she was around that age. Maybe those could work? I think they keep pumping out those games so 3DS versions probably exist.
(June 10th, 2017, 01:42)Cheater Hater Wrote: First of all, the Pokemon versions have almost no difference between the paired versions, just a minor difference in available Pokemon. Ideally you'd get the version your daughter's friends don't have, or if you know which Pokemon your daughter likes specifically that could help guide a decision.
As for which of the three series to get (it'll be four in November), I'm not really sure--does she have any experience with the games, or just through other media? My gut would say Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, but I want to know more about her experience first. (though honestly, they're mostly interchangeable--get whatever's cheapest )
As for the second game, I think I'd stay away from NSMB2--it wasn't that good, and the whole theme of it was collecting a bunch of coins for some reason. If you want a 2D Mario platformer, I'd actually go with Super Mario Maker 3DS--even if you ignore the creation aspects it apparently has a lot of good levels packed in (and then you can get more curated levels from the internet, or trade levels with friends. I'd also try to push back on Mario Kart 7--show your wife some of the gliding and/or underwater sections if you want to show it's different. I don't remember the Mario and Luigi games being that inappropriate, though maybe they're E10+ (and regardless, stay far away from Paper Mario: Sticker Star; that's one of the worst Nintendo games of the decade). AC might also be a good choice, if your daughter doesn't need her game to have a goal.
One more important point: the 3DS is fully backwards-compatible with original DS games, so that widens your options considerably: four more distinct Pokemon games, other 2D and 3D Mario games, etc.
Thanks very much CH! I've checked and she's not asked her friends at school whether they have a 3DS or not, so no insight on matching her version to theirs. And in any case as it's the summer she'll likely not be trading for a while anyways, if at all.
She has zero experience with the games. She has collected a handful of figurines from school, and she's started watching some of the animated series on Netflix based on that. Her favorite Pokemon are Pikachu and Bulbasaur, so I don't think she's on the bleeding edge.
For the second game, I appreciate the NSMB2 and Sticker Star feedback, I was a operating under the impression both were pretty good. I could have been more clear about the RPG series - I'm assuming given the theme neither will be content-inappropriate, I just wasn't sure if the pacing and length would hold her interest. But maybe I'm selling her short, I played FF2(IV) at like 8 so I don't know... I'm personally interested in Maker though, so maybe picking that for the second option will be a win/win.
If you're raising her on Gen 1, you could also get one of the original games (Red/Blue/Yellow) from the Virtual Console for cheap. X/Y let you get a Gen 1 starter easily (and Pikachu's in all of them obviously), so that might be a choice.
I never said NSMB2 was bad per se, it's just not that good (most of the NSMB games haven't been that inspired creatively, especially when you're comparing them directly to Super Mario World and the other classic games). Concerns of length are reasonable, though as you said you might be underestimating her--keep in mind Pokemon itself is an RPG series at its core.
As someone who has perhaps played too much pokemon as I sought to fulfill a long put-aside childhood dream of actually catching all of them...
Any of the games within the same generation basically have full intercompability (technically there are usually a few select moves/items that can't go from the older game to the newer), while between generations usually the only thing you can do is send pokemon "forward" (so one way from say gen 6 to gen 7).
As far as the current 3ds games go, there are 3 pairs: Sun/Moon (Gen 7), Alpha Saphire/Omega Ruby (Gen 6), and X/Y (Gen 6). Matching generation to friends is definately the play to make as far as allowing them to play together. Past that, most of the other choices probably don't matter a ton. If you care about matching to favorite pokemon , Bulbasaur is available in X/Y, while I believe pikachu is available in any of them.
(June 12th, 2017, 22:21)dtay Wrote: As someone who has perhaps played too much pokemon as I sought to fulfill a long put-aside childhood dream of actually catching all of them...
Any of the games within the same generation basically have full intercompability (technically there are usually a few select moves/items that can't go from the older game to the newer), while between generations usually the only thing you can do is send pokemon "forward" (so one way from say gen 6 to gen 7).
As far as the current 3ds games go, there are 3 pairs: Sun/Moon (Gen 7), Alpha Saphire/Omega Ruby (Gen 6), and X/Y (Gen 6). Matching generation to friends is definately the play to make as far as allowing them to play together. Past that, most of the other choices probably don't matter a ton. If you care about matching to favorite pokemon , Bulbasaur is available in X/Y, while I believe pikachu is available in any of them.
Yeah, Pokemon is one of those series that doesn't change that much (though Gen 7 did change a decent amount), and yet people still buy a lot anyway. I was most into it in Gen 3 (got 385/386 in my Sapphire Pokedex 100% legit (only missing Mew), and even got second in a tournament that would have sent me to New York for the finals) and have been falling off ever since--heck, I didn't get Omega Ruby until a year later and it was half-off.
)
The purchase was motivated mainly because I own no more than two dozen video games and wanted one to play with them, but the game proved to get me on the hook again on its own merits. I'll talk about those, indulge or humor me...
The Battle Frontier in Emerald must have been where I first developed a taste for strategy games. In fact, I think the very next game I bought (i.e. had my parents buy) after that was Civ4.
). The EV "sliders" and natures come in again here; choosing to invest into Speed can pay off to get that important first strike -- or backfire if you would outspeed anyway, but can't get the extra damage needed.
