[SPOILER] PB37 Dark Savant tries not to be a blatant MP n00b

[Dark Savant]

Addendum to that: Coeurva just whipped a city for -1 pop (-2 points).

At this point, everyone has ended turn except our two neighbors -- both of whom have logged in but not ended their turn.  (They haven't met each other.)

Is this something to be concerned about?

[Dark Savant]

Wait, no.

Coeurva just posted to the tech thread that he's in a double-move situation.  He was the last player to log on t58.

I can't see how that could possibly be with us.

We know he doesn't have contact with any of our other contacts; both his mystery neighbor and the double-move situation would be with one of CML, dtay, or JR4, probably the same since I'd be stunned if he had three land neighbors.  All three of those players also ended their turn before Coeurva did on t57.

CML did log in for about an hour after Coeurva played, but that was only after he ended his turn.  Neither dtay nor JR4 did anything at all, though.  I'm not sure how that would qualify as a double-move since he can't do much (he didn't whip anything then), but I don't see any other possibility.

So that additional piece of information we probably shouldn't have, but was posted publicly so everyone has it, means that we've likely got this chain:

us -> Gavagai -> Krill -> Ventessel -> GermanJoey -> JR4 -> dtay -> CML -> Coeurva -> us

There is going to a seam in there somehow, just not in the first four links in that chain.

[ipecac]

• Coeurva: +6 points for researching Writing (ouch, he researched that with just one arrow) -- he can propose a trade of world maps at any time now.
  

I'd like your input on what to do if Coeurva proposes a map trade.  I strongly want to turn him down because he'll almost certainly learn more from us than the other way around (and he may even have guessed this, since he saw Gem wander by), but if people do otherwise in MP let me know.

Wait, writing just does...oh wait, this is RtR. it's quite normal not to trade maps with your neighbours since you're primary rivals (why give him information about your territory?), it'll be extremely unusual to do so. An especially since it's a circum race, you'd rather not take the risk.

Trading maps with someone like Krill would make more sense, but still has to be carefully considered.

Krill also has the most population now -- 13, in cities of size 7, 4, and 2.  I suppose it helps he's the only player not in Slavery;

Make sense: he doesn't need slavery because the best thing for him was to get capital up and  running working all those resources.

GermanJoey is the only rival whom I don't have a read on in this situation.  It's very possible his second city is a far stronger site than Castleview.  JR4 is probably the next most-serious threat.

That's still favorable enough that I'm committing to going for it hard.

Looks like we have a good shot at it.

[Dark Savant]

Wait, writing just does...oh wait, this is RtR. it's quite normal not to trade maps with your neighbours since you're primary rivals (why give him information about your territory?), it'll be extremely unusual to do so. An especially since it's a circum race, you'd rather not take the risk.

I'm getting the impression it's a one-horse race for circumnavigation; the lack of contacts between non-neighbors makes it less likely we have competition, and we haven't seen CML or dtay crash through Coeurva's territory with a scout or impi.  I'll still try to complete it quickly, though.

Trading maps with someone like Krill would make more sense, but still has to be carefully considered.

Yeah, right now even if one of us had Writing, whomever I trade with still learns more than the other way around.  I'd want some other kind of compensation for that, which I can't propose in AI-diplo without one of us also having currency.

I'm guessing Krill doesn't want Writing next, though.  I think he'd want to at least get Animal Husbandry first.

[Dark Savant]

Also, Coeurva's neighbor isn't necessarily CML; dtay may have "double-moved" an impi and Coeurva may not have remembered that's what they do.

Either way, Coeurva is likely seeing some power spikes by his other neighbor -- he's got a 2/3 chance of bordering someone apparently whipping military hard, even with random chance.

I'm not sure how much I trust this inference.  I was planning to cover Sorpigal's general vicinity with that axe we're about to finish, because Sorpigal can't whip one in an emergency nearly as easily as Castleview.

[Dark Savant]

Okay, now Mardoc is saying there was a double-move.

I still don't see how this happened, if "double-move" doesn't mean what impis have:

• Coeurva does have contact with us, but can't see any of our units either currently (his warrior visible to us hasn't yet moved on t58), or last turn.  (He would have last seen Razanur across the lake on t56.)
  
• Coeurva has no contact with Gavagai, GermanJoey, Krill, or Ventessel.
  
• All remaining players -- CML, dtay, and JR4 -- all finished their turns before Coeurva both this turn and last turn.
  

It's possible the lurkers are trying to cover Coeurva letting slip more information in the tech thread than he should.

I'm still going with this being evidence JR4 is GermanJoey's neighbor.  This is information Coeurva probably doesn't even realize he gave us.

[Dark Savant]

I thought you might like an update on which techs I think everyone has.

Everyone has Agriculture, Bronze Working, Fishing, Hunting, and Mining.

Additionally:

• us: Animal Husbandry, Pottery, The Wheel
  
• CML: Mysticism; two mystery techs that are hard to read, some combination of Masonry, Polytheism, Pottery, Priesthood, and The Wheel.  (I was thinking he wanted to go for Judaism, but he also needs to get The Wheel so he doesn't get thumped by the rival with the impis.  If I were him, I'd still go for Judaism after getting The Wheel.  My best guess is that he suspended Polytheism when Krill got Hinduism, got The Wheel, then resumed Polytheism, completed it, and is now working on Masonry.)
  
• Coeurva: Pottery, The Wheel, Writing
  
• dtay: The Wheel; two other techs that are probably Animal Husbandry and Pottery
  
• Gavagai: Pottery, The Wheel; two other techs that are probably Archery and Animal Husbandry
  
• GermanJoey: Pottery, The Wheel; two other techs that are probably Animal Husbandry and Mysticism
  
• JR4: Meditation, Mysticism, Pottery, The Wheel; another tech that I believe is Archery
  
• Krill: Mysticism, Polytheism, Pottery, The Wheel; another tech that I believe is Archery
  
• Ventessel: Animal Husbandry, The Wheel; three mystery techs, my best guess is Archery, Mysticism, and Pottery
  

[Dark Savant]

Gavagai can now see into Castleview, since that water tile he now controls in second-ring enables him to.  (I double-checked this in my sandbox.)

So he can see that we currently only have 1 warrior on defense there.  We do have the zone defense warrior covering things and can whip either an axe or a spear on 1 turn's notice, but I don't think we want to let that state of affairs continue much longer.

Also, I'll chop that forest to its north -- I should be able to cover the worker by the time I'll be doing so.

In other news, a reload hasn't happened, and Coeurva hasn't ended his turn yet.  

[ipecac]

Good thinking about chopping that forest.

And on furhter thought: Castleview is very vulnerable, you should get a wall there eventually, and I'm not sure you want to put GLH (a big wonder) in such a vulnerable city.

[Dark Savant]

And on furhter thought: Castleview is very vulnerable, you should get a wall there eventually, and I'm not sure you want to put GLH (a big wonder) in such a vulnerable city.

I'd certainly build the Great Lighthouse somewhere else if I could, but I think that's our best site for it -- nowhere else I can see is coastal, has the benefit of already existing with substantial infrastructure, and has enough forest I can chop into it.

The best alternative site I can see is at sky-blue dot here in this fresh screenshot:



It's going to take quite a number of turns to even get a settler there, and it wouldn't have the infrastructure Castleview already has (barracks, granary, 2 5-food tiles).  Do you think that (or any other site visible there; there is no way anything not visible here is a good idea) will work better?

One thing I can do is transfer the spear due in 2t from Harmondale to Castleview, since the biggest threat from 2-move units in the south is now actually an impi from dtay.  Coeurva can't possibly get a chariot to one of our southern cities for at least ~15 turns; we didn't know either that or the trouble he's having with his mystery neighbor until this turn.