RB Pitboss #3 [SPOILERS]- Suryavarman II of England

[Cyneheard]

I sent DIM a quick response to their email, after they turned down our request for an extra axe to join the stack.

DIM Email:

Hi,


I think it's clear we're not planning on telling France they're out of the Cartel. Mukha did a pretty good job patching things up.

Re the axeman, I'd wish you'd informed us a couple of turns earlier. I don't know if you realise this, but Midas' borders only popped recently, and it's Corn has only been farmed last turn. We've been pretty much stunting the city's growth to keep working that gold mine to finish HBR as fast as possible. We could have whipped an Axe from DIM a couple of turns earlier to be ready for the assault. The only solution I can think of is providing you with copper for a couple of turns (don't know if minimum 10 turns apply as in SP), for you to chop/whip the axe in a city close to the front.

Also, I can't remember when Lyon got founded, but have you considered that it could have popped its border by T75, which would mean France would spot your stack on T74?

Anyway let me know if there's anything else we can do.

Regards,

Ilios - DIM

Ilios,

Agreed, Mukha's response was really good. Writing + Aesthetics is probably the simplest way to go. Every hammer they spend on libraries isn't being spent on troops.

Sorry, we just realized this turn that an axe coming along would make a big difference; the tac plan's been in a state of flux, but it's finally locked in now. It was only last turn that we learned of their copper having a chance of being online soon. Lyons was founded on T63. So, since they haven't had writing, unless they chopped a monument instantly we won't have to worry about a border popping. If the border HAS popped, then we're also looking at 1t being stuck in their culture. If they spend 90 hammers on a library there after getting Writing this turn, then Lyons deserves to fall, and there isn't a chance they'll have the units capable of stopping us.

A copper loan wouldn't be helpful for this assault, since our front city is going to be building chariots on T70, 71 and 72 anyway, the last 2 courtesy of Math. An axe built there would have a tough time reaching Lyons in time anyway; Midas is closer. Stealth and speed are more important than adding an extra unit. After IW comes in, we'll see what our iron situation is in our territory, and at that point we should determine what to do with Lyons if it's size 2. The minimum of 10t wouldn't apply if we'd made it a resource trade (like one of our health resources), and then canceled the trade; this has been done already this game by Krill.

[Cyneheard]

Ilios then flagged me down for a chat:

Traded a lot of info about the state of our civs. They...uh...lost a settler to a lion, a warrior on a forest got eaten. Carthage is doing well research-wise, which is fine with me, they're a pretty safe ally as long as Krill thinks the three of us working together is good for him. As long as we also bring Babylon and Mali along, and border Krill, he's not going to want to cut us loose for a very long time. Diplomatically, I think our position is relatively secure. Please shake me out of my complacency as we go along.

It does look like once CAN falls apart, it's going to be Krill/Carthage/Us/Babylon/Mali vs. the other 5, with any CANT survivors in an unknown situation. Byzantium is probably going to want revenge on Babylon/Mali; who knows what the Maya will want.
I dunno if we can flip HRE or not. The easiest way to do is it through superior firepower IMO: if they know that they can't win a war with us, then a peaceful resolution's probably easier.

Eventually, CANT teams are either going to die, or join one group or the other. Keeping Construction with Carthage is very good long-term: that's an awesome tech to use to induce a CANT team to join our side, along with Monarchy. India has Metal Casting, whose forges aren't nearly as important as catapults. Portugal's probably funding and so won't have any techs under their control. The Aztec are definitely funding with their pitiful development to date. Math/HBR/IW should all be available to CANT members assuming Sumeria survives long enough to hand out Alphabet.

According to the HRE, India signed peace with Sumeria. It IS possible that India realized that they couldn't burn down the capital, and decided to give Yaz a chance to rebuild without spending more chariots in the assault.

I think there's no reason not to raze Lyons. If we settle a copper spot, we go 2S1W of the copper, as we were originally talking to the HRE about. However, assuming iron is actually at our capital, or somewhere reasonably secure, I'd rather have the sheep/wines spot to our west, and cram a filler city between AF and BR, probably 2N of those two cities, 3E of AF and 3W of BR. That makes for a much better, more even front with the HRE. I see no reason not to prepare for them to be future rivals, and to somewhat expect it.

DIM: quick question
me: yes
DIM: are you guys heading for Monarchy?
me: yeah
DIM: ok
me: we start next turn. Meeting India for Masonry, Mono from Krill
DIM: you guys have an ETA?
me: Depends on Lyons.
DIM: amount of gold captured?
me: yeah
DIM: ok
me: best-case? Available T79-80.
DIM: ah ok that's pretty good. got two prereqs if i remember correctly
me: we will, yes and can do 40bpt, so, that's 10t
DIM: really sorry about the axe btw
me: it was a "Wait, this would actually work if you did it NOW" hopefully, they won't have 2 spears and we'll be good
DIM: well they'd have to be really good if they can manage that
me: 2 workers could chop out 2 spears in time I think. would be tight
DIM: pre-maths, yeah
me: working the copper tile? Yeah, they could with 2 chops that's 5hpt +40 gets them to 70, especially if a warrior in production auto-upgrades. Do you care if the war is the 1st half of the timer or 2nd?
DIM: nope
me: Since at some point, you'll be joining in
DIM: count on it
me: Are you planning on combined arms, or pure 2-movers?
DIM: pure two movers once their copper is gone
me: they might end up with IW from Rome if Yaz survives a few turns
DIM: without alpha?
me: Post-T75. if Yaz finishes Alpha, he'd give it to all his contacts in CANT
DIM: Sumeria and India are at peace it would seem
me: really? they just burnt the one city, and that's that?
DIM: crazy huh? i'm thinking exploit was a big reason to attack
me: he was but getting rid of their Alpha civ does us a lot of good, sets them way back
DIM: and Yaz probably needed to give some concessions
me: we'll talk to India tomorrow, after we meet
DIM: good
me: at least, I hope they've been moving there the way Krill told them too...
DIM: hehe
me: if they signed peace, you'd think one of them would've posted that the war's over in the IT thread so that next turn we aren't confused. what contacts are you missing? we still need Rome, Aztec, and India
DIM: all the south except for Mali oh Cartel wise
me: you've had Cartel except the new ones for a while
DIM: we met everyone like 10 turns ago. well we did set up the cartel with Egypt and India
me: aye, and a good thing that was. although I think if a PB4 is this big, with tech trading, I'd like to see how a No Oracle game would play out
DIM: yeah Oracle's a stinker
me: ah. When the Oracle gets its tech to, what, 10 teams? It's the only team wonder, and isn't priced for it. heck, which would you rather have, the Oracle or the 'Mids?
DIM: true that. mids?
me: Pyramids
DIM: ah. I'd like the pyramids built for free
me: quite true. Who actually is going for MC?
DIM: India... and France :D
me: looks like India's considering a Forge --> GE actually, no, scratch that
DIM: no
me: they'd need 200GPP. GP will pop first
DIM: Krill will have his Priest economy up soon
me: aye. Gandhi of Egypt...the only leader capable of leveraging the Obelisk well. Do you think all 6 of CANT are going to be killed off in the next 30-40 turns? France, most likely. The others?
DIM: France definitely. Rome depends on Portugal
me: and on when Alphabet comes in. 1 spear would wreck their assault
DIM: they attack T72
me: that should be fine for the first assault, but what about the other city?
DIM: well, we'll soon find out
me: true. shame Portugal hasn't had time to build any granaries
DIM: the other Can't are pretty far away from me. yeah those whips must have hurt. Inca will probably go by T100
me: that leaves Maya and Byz
DIM: yup, if Babylon and Mali are really in
me: Byz is copperless. they are, they want to work with us
DIM: I'm starting to think there are too many teams in the Cartel...
me: you think it's going to last with all 10?
DIM: not a chance
me: a 2nd round of techs is the max
DIM: yup. then, hubris
me: is it me, or has India had the most interesting game? Henge before anyone else built city #2, 2 wars, Burnt down a city
DIM: hehe well it's a star team
me: true, but the last game they played
DIM: I prefer to stay under the radar
me: they were the first non-warrior-walk-into-capital death
DIM: yup
me: I hear ya
DIM: and henge put a big fat target on them, don't be first in score
me: oh. Hm. We've done that.
DIM: good job young man!
me: Briefly, and only by a few points, well, 1/2 a turn and by 2 points over ~3 teams
DIM: still
me: that was T48 and score isn't the important demo, just visible
DIM: exactly
me: teams shouldn't put much stock into it
DIM: but they do
me: Probably a carryover from timed MP games for the MP members. long-term, yes, India and Egypt are likely to be the big powers. Rego and Krill, again.
DIM: yeah. that's why I think we should start planning for the future
me: well, Krill's thinking 30t ahead at least, knowing him. India's doing the same thing. Where do you see this in 30t?
DIM: expansion phase, lots of land to grow into
me: lots of land, yes. Some of it being good land.
DIM: yeah you should see india's...floodplains galore
me: ...
DIM: yup
me: you've seen our terrain. You know how many flood plains we have.
DIM: half a flood plain?
me: Well, eventually 1. Sullla was not looking for a finely-balanced map like PB2 was meant to be
DIM: yeah, you should see our starting area
me: that good, or that bad?
DIM: plains sheep and non-irrigated wheat, yeah that good.
me: you settled on T0
DIM: yup, no reason to move.
me: we got plains river sheep and wet rice
DIM: better
me: I'd have assumed Sullla would've balanced the starting food....
DIM: nah
me: although that does explain your warrior-worker-Agri+AH start
DIM: yup, excruciating turns
me: I'm sure. Our start was fine; we had a 2nd-ring plains hill forest, which made Exp a lot nicer at the start, it was, say, when we lost a warrior at 4% to a lion that we started to panic
DIM: i can imagine
me: then again, Animal Farm would've missed the horses if we hadn't. we'd have been in a ton of trouble between no copper and our horses being 1 tile outside our 2nd city's BFC
DIM: warrior defense...
me: through T70 ouch.
DIM: yup
me: you'd have seen our horses outside our territory, and probably considered a chariot rush.
DIM: yeah we'd chariot rushed you with our worker army...
me: or, maybe you weren't in a position to do so
DIM: no we really werent
me: Frankly, this strike shouldn't count as a chariot rush.
DIM: it shouldn't?
me: It is, but, T75, they're just getting copper up? That's...awfully late. you don't have a trade connection, do you?
DIM: nope, got three now
me: same here but no routes with you guys yet
DIM: rome as well?
me: no, Byzantium
DIM: strange
me: we don't have Roman contact
DIM: ah
me: your cities are fogged
DIM: probably fogged
me: so while you can see us
DIM: get it unfogged
me: we've got Babylon, so it's 1 lost commerce a turn now, will be 2 once Gibraltar's on our network.
DIM: only 1 ?
me: we'll send our 1st HA out of AF to SM, we've got 2 trade routes with Babylon
DIM: we get three with you
me: aye, and our 3rd city gets 1 commerce naturally from London
DIM: babylon only have 2 cities?
me: Babylon has 3 but Leviticus isn't hooked up by roads
DIM: ah
me: Exploit and Rome only HAD to 2 cities each...how did they expand so slowly?
DIM: well, i'll let you in a little secret. we lost a settler at 4% odds
me: ouch.
DIM: yeah
me: Forest warrior vs. lion.
DIM: yup and left at 1.5 health...
me: You've done well, to keep up. that's just evil
DIM: yeah
me: at least our lion was down to his last hit at 0.5
DIM: so if you're wondering why we're still only at our third...
me: we hadn't checked, and 3 cities is reasonable if a little slow. we just settled #4 this turn
DIM: yeah I saw
me: Kicked a byzantine warrior out of our culture in the process
DIM: we'll probably have to wait until those ha's come online
me: to get a 4th city?
DIM: yup
me: right, hammers at a premium
DIM: granaries are coming online now
me: that will help. does your cap have several grass hills?
DIM: yes
me: That lets you work hammers without a granary just fine, still, it'll be nice to crack the whip a bit and get Monarchy so we can bust our happy cap
DIM: yup. I had hoped to play the new turn before going to bed
me: not happening. oh, maybe. Portugal's the only one left [OOC: 3 hours later...nope]
DIM: yup
me: 5 end turns in the last 2 1/2 hours...wow. Hm. For our formal declaration of war to France, there will be an e-mail.
DIM: good
me: You think we should claim that England is restoring her rights to the dual Monarchy of France? Replay the 100 Years War without JOan of Arc?
DIM: nah, morgan won't get that
me: With Elizabeth?
DIM: elizabeth wasn't queen during the 100 years war
me: true
DIM: hehe
me: although they won't be happy to see Henry V and The Black Prince charging through their cities
DIM: Carthage have founded all their cities on hills. hehe
me: wonder why they felt they had to? or, just happened to work out that way
DIM: they haven't even popped borders with their cities
me: all three of our built cities have 0 food resources in the first ring. I love Creative.
DIM: hah
me: actually, scratch that, Animal Farm has 1
DIM: we couldve used creative...wow now i get how carthage get 50 beakers/turn
me: gold at least. they may only have 1st-ring, but they've got good stuff in that first ring. probably top 2-3 in total pop. Boring is size 4, last I checked
DIM: gold, furs, lots of cottage
me: Until Babylon gets both their academy and the gold up Carthage is #1 in research. is that 50 unadjusted beakers?
DIM: think so
me: wow. again, I think we're at most 45, and that's with 2 libraries up.
DIM: well, once you meet Aztec, you can send some screenshots to Ruff, he'll add them to the Cartel map
me: ok, he's the one putting that together
DIM: yup
me: not sure when we're going to meet him, though
DIM: yeah he's far away
me: and we've been heading the wrong direction, contact with India was more important. are you guys up to 40bpt? between 6 from trade, 8 from gold, and 11 from the palace + city center
DIM: nope, no cottages up yet and cities are only growing now
me: no cottages? None of your workers have been available? That's rough luck.
DIM: yeah. we needed to double back our worker to our capital to chop out a new settler...workers, but we'll get 2 up in three turns
me: wait, "worker"? I know BW came in late for you
DIM: nah we have 5 now
me: ah, ok, so do we, but we still need more
DIM: i hear ya
me: especially with 2 going on an extended detour to facilitate the destruction of Lyons
DIM: combat engineers
me: that's about 12 worker turns right there, including movement
DIM: good planning though
me: thanks. still, the one-move strike is well worth it and the forests will still be there when we get back
DIM: yeah better raze the city
me: Lyons is in a terrible spot for us
DIM: you should have iron in your borders
me: aye, we'll find out soon enough
DIM: how's the land to your south
me: we've settled our best southern city, there's a few mediocre sites and then it's Mali/Babylon
DIM: well there should be plenty of room to expand to your east soon
me: aye
DIM: anyway, I'm off to bed, don't think Portugal will be playing soon
me: ok, night
DIM: later man
me: cya

[Cyneheard]

A late-night realization made me log in and set us to working 0 cottages at London. (Yeah, it starts with one tile swap, and takes half an hour...) This means we're working 3 GHMs, the sheep, and the rice. At that rate, we would grow in 3t to size 6, but the whip anger wears off in 5t. However, once the chariot we're currently working on completes, London needs to knock out at least one worker, preferably 2 (clearing the jungle and getting the silver online; possibly mining and roading to iron. The iron might be mined already, we can hope). So with a few turns spent on the worker, we can then grow to size 6 and gain a cottage; either wait for the worker to complete and then spend 1t growing while building probably an archer (can definitely work the 2 cottages that turn), or just pause the worker for 1t and build the archer.

With Animal Farm getting a stable and going pure HAs for the foreseeable future, I think London is better spent using its production to supply our 1-movers for defensive and HR purposes, or spamming workers and a 5th settler for either sheep/wines or our copper replacement.

I asked Carthage to head NE with their warrior to make contact, that way we get visual confirmation of Lyons' location.

All names courtesy of Wikipedia on the Hundred Years' War.

The Master Plan For The Raid At Lyons/Crecy (In the Hundred Years' War, Crecy was a city that the English sneak-attacked and took in a single day.)

EOT69: Chariot at Animal Farm completes. This chariot shall be Henry V.
T70: Bashful needs to move 1N and finish that road segment. I forgot about the need for this road segment last turn (pre-reload), and so we're losing 2 worker turns because of it. This is to ensure that Henry V can catch up to the rest of the force, and bring us to five chariots.
EOT70: Chariots at London and Beaver Rock complete. London's chariot will be Hugh Calveley, and Beaver Rock's is Archibald the Grim. Mathematics comes in from Carthage.
EOT71: On a Math-chop, we finish another chariot at BR. The Black Prince.
EOT72: On another Math-chop, we finish a third chariot at BR. John de Vere, instrumental in the assault on Crecy.
T73: Our stack will be 1SW of the staging location; de Vere will be one tile behind.
T74: The stack moves 1NE, to the staging location. Doc and Happy will road this tile. These moves need to be as early in the turn as possible. de Vere catches up with the rest of the stack.
T75: We declare war. The order of operations for the 1000BC turn:
1) Log in and declare war.
2) Send a pre-written e-mail declaring war, and claiming the first half of the turn.
3) Post in the IT thread that we have declared war on France, and claim the first half of the turn.
4) Doc and Happy move 1NE, and road.
5) The chariots move in. First, we'll send in 1 of the 3 0XP chariots onto the copper tile, to see what the situation is. If it's ugly, we pillage the copper, and do our best not to get everyone killed. If not, well, we can just burn the place down. HRE didn't ask for the city, and I think we're better off burning it down and replacing it than we are trying to hold a very sub-optimal location.
6) ???
7) Profit!

Pictures:
The Home Front:


The Invasion Itself:

[antisocialmunky]

My question is this:

What is HRE getting out of it? They've seem more passive than I would think they would be. Are we just going to agree not to go farther north and allow them the non-overlapping sheep area?

I mean is getting rid of France and having a secure border(for the forseeable future) worth the price of having a larger civ somewhat friendly civ to the south? I guess they aren't investing too much, just a small support taskforce of chariots but still.

As for Krill while I do think he is going to work with us, I think that it would be a mistake to write him off. Let him do his thing but watch his dealings as close as we can. It would be more productive for him to expand and solidify his position. No need to get rid of us. We need to figure out what his short term goals are and make sure killing us isn't one of them.(He's going to have to make us a non-factor at some point anyway) Krill has shown himself willing of disposing of the easy targets. Korea was unlucky and France is small and isolated, which one is the next best target? To do this, the simplest way is to keep in communication with Krill and his neighbors. Likely anything he is planning will involve some of them. Also Babs and Mali will probably be useful in hearing rumors since we've been close and the relationship has been tested.(They were in CANT, we were in CAN and we stilled worked with each other fairly well) We should try and cultivate them further.

[Cyneheard]

HRE is committing absolutely nothing to this attack, at least the first wave. They'll have some 2-movers for the assault on Paris, and once IW comes in, we'll talk settlement stuff with them.

Krill has no choice but to work with us. He needs civs that are more likely to stick with him than with India. Yes, Krill attacks weak targets. This means we need to never be a weak target. For the time being, we aren't, and we'll be fine for at least a while on that front. When CAN falls apart, I don't think an anti-Krill dogpile would be in our interests. Carthage would stick with them, but even if it's an 8v2, and they die, then I suspect it will turn into a 5v3, and we'd be the 3.

Agreed, sticking close to Babylon and Mali is a good thing. Especially as long as the "Southern Triangle" of the three of us stick together, Krill can't cut us out. Still, when chatting, keeping an eye on him is a good thing. But he's not the one I'm most worried about; it's our northern neighbor.

[Cyneheard]

Turn 70 Report:

Late-night chats with Carthage and Portugal to follow in a separate post.

D-Day -5. 2 chariots complete this turn. London will start its worker, and Beaver Rock has 2 more chariots lined up.

Right now, we have 141 gold @ -17pt, and Monarchy takes 10t, BEFORE getting Mono. That should reduce it to 8t, I think. However, our expenses are going to increase as we build more units.

We met India! Judaism was discovered in a "distant" land, so we'll get that from Krill once we get Masonry from India. I requested OBs and Masonry from India.



We have discovered Mathematics!

I declined OBs from France.

Lots of barbarians sighted:
Conan might have to run away next turn, he's still way too low in HP to take the chance.


Gulliver, however, might get a warrior to suicide on him for 5XP!! That's a Sumerian warrior over there.


Demographics:
All-around strength, good.


Wait, what's that? :2dance:

[Cyneheard]

First, a quick greeting to India:

We meet at last! Richard the Lionhearted has met your wounded warrior near Krill's territory. In-game, we have requested Open Borders and Masonry. Can you let us and Krill know when we have Masonry in our possession, so that we can get Mono from Krill and start Monarchy at full speed? We believe it will complete in 9t, so it'll be available T79 +/- 1t.

For gchat, I am remaining invisible over the next few turns, because I want to control when we talk to France. So don't be surprised if you get a chat from an invisible England. For the most part, Cyneheard is the one managing the diplomacy.

I also let Krill know that we've met India.

Last night, after asking Carthage, if they're going to contact France, to go NE and make sure that Lyons is where we think it is:

Also spoke with Mali, but that deserves a separate post.

Pacal: top of the evening to you
me: g'day
Pacal: i suppose st. patty's day is ancient history in your parts eh?
me: it is
Pacal: oh well, we still get an hour of it here.
me: insomnia + a need to take care of some things
Pacal: good times we weren't planning on meeting france but if they are only 3 turns away that isn't too bad. would it be straight south to Babylon after those three turns?
me: straight south wouldn't be the fastest way, turning around and running through our lands and our roads is. so, you'd lose 6 turns...
Pacal: so the biggest benefit would be the map intel that would help the egypt/hre/england assault on france
me: well, confirmation of what they said in chat. you didn't research Writing, did you?
Pacal: no, krill gifted it to us
me: thought so
Pacal: france didn't either?
me: Mali's going for Aesthetics. haven't talked to France recently. well, a few days
Pacal: i just want to make sure that we don't tip them off by not giving maths
me: They have Ottoman contact and won't be getting IW
Pacal: okay, and that will come before the T72-73 ETA of our meeting, so cat's already out of the bag before we meet them
me: yeah. Archery, HBR, IW, and Maths, all not being sent to them? they'll know something's up. T75, well, they'll DEFINITELY know something's up.
Pacal: 75 it is, eh? exciting :0
me: 1000BC, the perfect time to claim the dual monarchy of England and France for ourselves. And not Elizabeth the Usurper. Or maybe that was Mary the Usurper?
Pacal: lol
me: our stack is going to have fun with names. every anti-France unit will be an English 100 Years War vet. We need to make sure Babylon gets Alpha ASAP so that Mali can get Writing and start Aesthetics
Pacal: so is it lack of contacts that has kept mali from getting any techs? that is - they are 100% on board with the CAN?
me: they are. they have very few contacts. us, you, DIM, Babs
Pacal: okay... but they lack writing still
me: and CANT people. yeah
Pacal: hmmm. i wonder if we can help them meet krill.
me: Krill just needs to meet Babylon since Babylon has writing
Pacal: are they close to doing that?
me: I don't know. have to ask Krill or Babylon, and they're not around right now
Pacal: i hear ya. it's just now starting to get fun
me: oh, ever since I met Krill it's been fun. the diplo's been great. micro has its ups and its downs. when CAN splits, I think we need to look to make it a 6v4, assuming the other CANT teams are all dead
Pacal: the three of us plus...
me: you, me, Egypt, Babylon, Mali won't be difficult, unless they really don't want to work with Krill, which I doubt but could be
Pacal: a bridge to cross when it comes to it
me: yeah. just something to think about, and consider when doing diplo
Pacal: well i've made my position on krill pretty clear i think
me: likewise. Mali doesn't think too highly of their chances, Babylon's the key. those two are less likely to split than PB1 Sunrise/Rego
Pacal: sorry, didn't follow that one closely.. but i'm sensing a ruff/dreylin pbem1 type partnership
me: different, Mali's much more of a diplomatic vassal. also, if CANT is dead, babylon and mali will only have our row as close neighbors
Pacal: then they're either with us or against us
me: yeah, and I'm 90% certain I can keep them with us. we've had good relations and Krill knows Kyan, so should be good for that, too
Pacal: Well, I really must be running along, but thanks for the confirmations
me: ok

[Cyneheard]

First things first,

Um...we don't have a NAP signed with the HRE. I think we should get on that, same deal as we proposed with Mali/Babylon:
can cancel T100, auto-renewing 10t cooldown, etc. etc.
If CAN splits, it might be with an HRE strike force on our territory if we don't ward off that possibility.

Mali chat:

me: ah, good. I'd forgotten about the NAP & ROP bit, thanks for bringing that up.
Capac: me, too
me: remind me again, who within CAN do you have contact with?
Capac: erm... you, carthage & DIM. I think that's it
me: and Babylon
Capac: wasn't sure they were CAN/Hydra
me: right. how are things in Mali?
Capac: so so. we just lost keef at preposterous odds, so our exploring will be set back
me: he was woody II? that sucks.
Capac: would have been woody II if the barb hadn't bucked 3.3% odds
me: Woody I on a forest, and loses. That's crap.
Capac: but thems the breaks
me: yeah
Capac: how's merrie england?
me: it goes well. Kicked a byzantine warrior out of our culture after settling a city. And got to do it twice with the reload. evil grin
Capac: very nice. have you seen carthage's land?
me: not directly. I've seen a gold tile
Capac: i've only seen south and east of 'boring' and it was good enough for them to leave a river pigs for another city
me: this is not a balanced map.
Capac: not at all
me: You sure? They haven't expanded their borders @ Boring. It is a little nuts how not-balanced it is, though
Capac: maybe they could grab it with border expansion giving them grass copper two river furs
me: 2???
Capac: and plenty river grass
me: crazy. Carthage and Byzantium win the "land we know of so far" prize.
Capac: byz seems pretty tame by comparison to Carthage.
me: Just to clarify, you're definitely onboard with CAN, right?
Capac: yeah, we're on board with CAN
me: good, we're glad to have you aboard. According to DIM, India and Sumeria signed peace???
Capac: India made a peace offer last I heard so if Sumeria accepted terms
me: I wonder what it could've been.
Capac: then India would have found it hard to back out
me: Yaz lost one city and only had 2
Capac: exploit lost the city
me: well, yes
Capac: Yaz picked up the pieces
me: still, a large part of the plan was to keep Alpha from finishing
Capac: Maybe India couldn't guarantee that?
me: probably
Capac: Or maybe they thought their peace offer would be rejected
me: not worth the risk. never make an offer that you don't want them to agree to.
Capac: indeed
me: when are you and Babylon planning on making your switch known? Math, Archery, and HBR will be the techs available to you in the near-term if you don't make any more contacts
Capac: if everything lines up then next turn would be ideal IMO which tech(s) can DIM offer
me: DIM is HBR although they're not done quite yet. we'll have Archery
Capac: We were asked to research aesthetic or Calendar
me: that sounds right
Capac: checking pre-reqs...
me: Aesthetics is Writing only
Capac: indeed, so Aesths makes most sense from a speed perspective
me: you have contact with Portugal?
Capac: no
me: right, then Aesthetics.
Capac: we have a warrior approaching rome who are N of Portugal
me: you have Writing already?
Capac: Babs has writing. anyone else?
me: we didn't research Writing. Carthage. Carthage should have Writing on their own
Capac: not showing on trade screen this turn
me: not everyone has Alpha
Capac: yeah, i suggested that Hydra should trade it around next turn
me: mostly to keep Exploit from getting a 2% bonus
Capac: seems a wee bit moot at this point
me: Agreed, but don't know when Krill will be around to do the deed
Capac: i think he was due to meet Babs soon in game
me: good. maybe they already did? I can't remember
Capac: Maya and Egypt just met
me: hm
Capac: not sure about babs/egypt. i think krill had a warrior by byz
me: yeah, but that might be "had"
Capac: fisticuffs?
me: Krill taunted Byz. maybe they didn't do anything
Capac: so unlike krilly :D
me: heh
Capac: going back to trades, we'll be safe enough if we can get Archery, but we'd like to get writing asap
me: I think Babylon's going to have to be your source
Capac: so we can turn research on again as our cash stockpile is getting a bit too large. I take it you're already on the way to monarchy?
me: actually, we haven't started, because we're waiting to get all of our pre-reqs
Capac: waiting for mono or priest?
me: Mono and Masonry. we don't have contact this turn with the Masonry civ
Capac: we're already started with Monarchy
me: Mono, well, I'll let you guess who that will be.
Capac: from overflow and free beaker
me: how much? 30 beakers? We save a lot more from the double pre-req
Capac: let me check... only 26 beakers so far
me: also, we've got better CAN contact, Monarchy's a lot more time-sensitive
Capac: yes, people will be needing to get their happy cap up, more than they need aesthetics wonders
me: Portugal should be getting contact with you in a few turns. they've got a woody II in our territory, I think he'll be at UF's borders in 4-5 turns
Capac: ok, cool
me: Sailing's always a nice bonus. we can give the oh-so-useful Fishing when we get Alpha
Capac: Calendar needs maths, which is carthage, no?
me: yes, but you'll need to have Writing to get Maths
Capac: depends on Krill-Kyan contact
me: right. you might get lucky, and by waiting a few turns, get Writing from Yaz if contact doesn't happen first
Capac: would try to avoid that tbh
me: understood
Capac: as long as we get archery we should be safe from Inca
me: T72 (it's a few beakers shy, we're going to overflow from it onto Monarchy) and start Monarchy next turn. how close are the Inca to you? our map knowledge is limited in that part of the world.
Capac: they're about 16 tiles S iirc so plenty close enough
me: yeah, but there's time to spit out archers, and get you IW since Inca are pure 1-movers
Capac: skirmishers will be fine
me: oh, right. forgot about that.
Capac: so who's your money on to win the game?
me: I'm trying to make sure that it's me.
Capac: (you can back yourself). don't think it will be Mali. land not great
me: tbh, I see your fates tied with Babylon permanently
Capac: and we didn't catch the early breaks
me: assuming CAN works well, there will be 10 teams left standing, and it'll break into 2 groups of 5.
Capac: India seems to really want to win (too much?)
me: Aztec are really weak, the Inca war hurt them
Capac: and krill will want to see this game through
me: Krill's going to be our eastern neighbor
Capac: both of them are non factors in all probability
me: agreed on Aztec/Inca being weak. Sumeria's already an afterthought
Capac: Carthage have good land and a good leader for it
me: Carthage will stick close to Krill.
Capac: england got a nice break with alliances
me: we definitely did
Capac: though you weren't happy with land
me: it's decent. we weren't happy with strategic resources, and, frankly, can survive the limited commerce resources. food and hammers are what matter
Capac: Maya have a decent civ/leader combo
me: Ragnar's a good fit for Maya?
Capac: fin and agg
me: Both are solid but I don't see any synergy
Capac: can be useful in mp i'd say as one needs to tech and fight
me: right. but Holkans don't need Agg to be useful
Capac: defensive unit
me: yes, Holkans are good, but, honestly, there's more synergy with Sury
Capac: so more likely to push attack elsewhere
me: we thought that we'd be better off with late-game. and Ragnar of England would've been scary.
Capac: who's getting MC btw?
me: India
Capac: makes sense
me: yeah, although they won't be the GE--> 'Mids team since their GP pops too soon
Capac: Mids is a risky proposition sends you up the target list
me: that's true. the only wonder we considered near-term was TGW, but decided we didn't have the 75h to play with. I asked Babylon if they knew when to expect contact
Capac: yeah play needs to be a lot tighter than in SP
me: with Egypt. I'm kicking myself over 2 wasted worker turns. forgot I needed to finish a road. I'm Expansive, and I'm worrying about worker turns...
Capac: I better get ready for work, good chatting to you. bye for now
me: yeah, we've been talking through Babylon so much

[antisocialmunky]

Just to be clear, what the hell is France supposed to be researching?

(5:24:42 PM) France: Hello Egypt
(5:25:30 PM) Krill: Hi mate,
(5:25:37 PM) Krill: caught me at an unfortunate time
(5:25:45 PM) Krill: but I can spare 5 minutes before I go through the door
(5:25:55 PM) Krill: might be a bit distracted though, so I apologise in advance for that
(5:26:19 PM) France: been trying to get hold of you for a few days
(5:26:49 PM) Krill: Been busy. Started a new job, got lied to about job description, dealing with that fallout
(5:27:24 PM) France: what is best for us to research? Mcasting still?
(5:27:48 PM) Krill: Probably is MC
(5:27:50 PM) Krill: it is expensive
(5:27:54 PM) Krill: but you get gold compensation
(5:27:58 PM) Krill: in addition
(5:28:56 PM) France: were happy to do any tech, juts so long as we are clear about the tech arrangments. we share everything or is there beaker counting?
(5:29:28 PM) Krill: I'm doing beaker counting behind the scenes to make sure no team is lazy
(5:29:48 PM) France: but techs are shared asap, no delays?
(5:30:24 PM) Krill: depends on need
(5:30:49 PM) Krill: for instance, teams that don;t need Alphabet to get techs won;t get alphabet until the others do, to increase the costs to them
(5:31:18 PM) Krill: Same with mono, if you don;t have a religion, no need to have it yet.
(5:32:15 PM) France: monarchy or mono?
(5:32:42 PM) Krill: latter
(5:32:59 PM) France: your doing monarchy?
(5:33:18 PM) Krill: No, just finished monotheism
(5:33:40 PM) France: who is doing monarchy?
(5:33:46 PM) France: you going for theo?
(5:34:02 PM) Krill: Not sure
(5:34:26 PM) Krill: As I've said in the past, I don;t control everything
(5:34:34 PM) Krill: and unfortunately, needto dash now
(5:34:44 PM) France: ok
(5:34:46 PM) France: later
(5:34:47 PM) Krill: cya around

[Cyneheard]

I don't know what France is "supposed to be", but telling them it's MC is fine.

India:

Great! Darrell From India here to let you know I'll log on in about 3 hours and give you OB and Masonry. We'll try and catch you up with us in a more formal e-mail later since our situation has been quite interesting to say the least.

One quick note...Ruff has been putting together a map stitch of everyone's lands. You don't have to participate if you don't want to, but its a good way to get the lay of the land. If you are interested, just take screenshots of your land (however many you need to get everything you have defogged/scouted). The following options should be used: alt-f, alt-i, ctrl-b. Then you send them to me and I will forward them to Ruff, then he will forward the composite back to me and I will forward back to you.

Darrell

Then we got a follow-up that we've got Masonry and OBs. I've logged in to request Mono.

EDIT: I checked, and copper is online for France. I repeat, they have copper.