RBP3 [SPOILERS] Hannibal of Byzantium (Bobchillingworth, ManiaMuse & SleepingMoogle)

[SleepingMoogle]

Turn 71:



Yaz finished Alphabet research this turn! I logged into the game to find a Hunting + Writing for Mysticism + Masonry trade waiting, which I accepted. I then offered a Polytheism for Alphabet trade back to Yaz so we can start trading our techs to the rest of the Heracles alliance.

We'll probably have to make some revisions to the turn plan once all the tech trades have come through, but we can still use the current plan for this turn. We finally finished the mine at the Citadel, and changed our tiles from the newly upgraded Hamlet to working it, dropping a turn off of our Settler. A barb showed up on our eastern border, but I'm not too concerned about him. Even if he enters our lands, we'll finish a chariot at Feros next turn which will be able to kill the warrior before he can do any damage. If we can get Iron Working within the next turn or two, we should move the worker to the jungle silver resource and road the tile, before chopping away the jungle and building a mine to get the silver into play. Extra happiness and commerce is always welcome.

At Feros, we're two turns away from finishing the Quarry now. Afterwards, the worker will start building a road to connect Feros to the new city site. As we were gifted a warrior from Yaz last turn, we also don't have to worry about leaving the city undefended anymore. With the likelyhood for conflict lessened, I'd like to propose building a Barracks next instead of more units, and to follow that up with a round of Spears once we hook up the copper.

Eden Prime is one turn away now from finishing its monument. Now that we have writing, we'll probably want to build a Library next instead of the planned Granary. The area is still being improved, with the third cottage finishing next turn, and the first of two mines being built as well. We'll probably want to move the Worker finishing the cottage to move towards Feros next to help improve the terrain at the 4th city site next.

Now for something different:



We made it back into the list! Also, note the French border bleeding through the fog in the lower right. We'll finally make contact with them next turn!

Two barb units moved out of the fog threatening Jenkins on the interturn. I moved him into a forest where only one of the units can attack him, it should be a relatively easy victory. If we can kill both, we should get his Woody II promotion as well.

As for the two chariots south of the citadel, I moved one west to keep an eye on Sumeria, and the second one towards the east. We could have both make a wide circle around our lands eventually to defog more tiles.

[SleepingMoogle]

Sent to the other members of the Heracles alliance:

Greetings to all members of the Heracles alliance,

Yaz was able to finish Alphabet research this turn, something which has come as a great relief to the Spectre Council and I'm sure the rest of the alliance as well. I would like to congratulate Yaz for his efforts towards making this happen. Coming into the game with Sumeria's future uncertain, it certainly was an unenviable position and his actions since starting are nothing short of praiseworthy.

The first tech trades have already gone through, and hopefully within a turn or two, we'll at least have significantly closed the gap between ourselves and the Hydra. To facilitate this process, could everyone please list their researched techs and current projects (with estimated time of completion)? I'm not certain about the current state as much information was lost when Exploit left.

Byzantium currently does not have Alphabet yet, as we needed Writing first. I have set up a secondary trade in-game with Yaz to gain access to it. Once it goes through, we can then share all of the following techs with anyone that needs them:

Agricultire
Animal Husbandry
The Wheel
Pottery
Mining
Bronze Working
Masonry
Mysticism
Polytheism

(The last three techs are likely those that will be traded around most)

At the moment, we are running 0% science to generate gold in preparation for our next tech research. With Monotheism less appealing as Judaism was founded last turn (although still important for the Organized Religion civic), we would be able to research Archery if no other Heracles member has started researching it yet, but prefer to wait with making a definite decision before feedback from you to avoid overlap.

-SleepingMoogle

[SleepingMoogle]

Yaz has traded us Alphabet now. I set up trades with other Heracles members who didn't have our techs yet. In return, we should be receiving Meditation, Priesthood, Fishing and Iron Working.

[ManiaMuse]

Are you sure you want library before granary in the floodplain city?

[SleepingMoogle]

It will have a pretty decent food surplus once the Rice is hooked up. Eventually I'd like both a Granary and Library in the city, but as the Citadel is currently leapfrogging between commerce for research and production for settlers and workers, setting up a library asap in Eden would be a good idea. Of course, with approval from you guys.

We have Iron Working now, and lookie here:



We have a native source of iron! The tile itself can't be worked by either The Citadel or Feros, but we should get it hooked up. I'm thinking we could eventually place a filler city that can work the tile though.

Maybe we should reconsider city 4 because of this? We wanted it to get copper, but with Iron instead, we could set up another commerce city instead.

Quick edit: Krill was the one who researched Montheism. It looks like the Hydra has Mathematics, Sailing and Archery as well.

[Bobchillingworth]

Quick post- we probably still want to settle city 4 in the established location, as Kyan's culture will start to really encroach on the spot if we delay for too long.

[Bobchillingworth]

Finally recieved responses back from India regarding both the "Krill chat" and the NAP terms;


-For Krill, they state that they don't see a "smoking gun", but note that they'll be more wary of Krill now, and reaffirm interest in closer ties with us. So not the ideal response, but I suppose could be worse.

-They agree to a 20T NAP with clauses for no gifting units to the enemy or allowing hostile 3rd parties passage to attack either of us. They suggest a 10T cool-down agreement, I find this acceptable but leave it to you two for approval.

-They are okay with a settling clause, but would like some sort of line of demarcation, provided preferably through mutual screen caps. This isn't a problem at all for me, but we should discuss- with Yaz gone we can now get a lot more land then we had thought possibly previously- how greedy do we want to be, and having decided that, where do we want to draw our borders? I would like to get that incense north of Yaz's capital, for a starting point.

[Bobchillingworth]

Ah well, we're screwed. Mali sent an email that they're leaving the alliance to go join Hydra (so much for the core 4, huh), and then Kyan sent something which may or may not mean he's leaving as well. I'm more disappointed in the game than furious right now. Since it makes no sense for Hydra to adopt every civ into their alliance, and no doubt at least a few of them will have designs on our land or want to kill us before we can get our UU, I see few options for us except to offer to become "sell swords"- to go kill enemies for whoever will sport us to 'pharcts. Our chances of breaking up the Hydra by convincing them to split up or join us just got much weaker; why would France or India possibly want to leave now?


To be honest I'm really not sure what we could have done better here, or what we did wrong except not betray our friends?



My interest in this game is pretty much on life support now. The last few turns have swung pretty dramatically between hope and despair for us, but I really don't know what we can do now that doesn't involve attacking friends or praying that the enemy ignores us, or the aforementioned mercenary approach. And are any of those options even fun? And if they aren't what the hell are we even playing for? I'm not going to invest several hundered more hours in some sort of exercise in abject pointlessness.


Meh.

[ManiaMuse]

Meh. Does that mean we are going to get archery then?

I think our best bet is to keep on working on India, out of all the civs I think they are the most likely to break off and do something different even if they won't admit it yet.

Oh and make sure we have a really good defence as well.

[SleepingMoogle]

Hi Everyone

We formed Heracles as a counterweight to The Hydra. The best overall outcome would have been to force a strategic stalemate that would then lead to these two large groups disbanding voluntarily in order to keep the game worth playing (à la PB1). With the current situation regarding Sumeria's seemingly imminent demise we believe this objective has become impossible.

We believe our best option at this point is to accept an offer to join the Hydra. We suggest that everyone look at their options and do what they feel is best for their enjoyment of this game.

We regret the need for this decision, but believe it has become necessary.

Yours sincerely

Emperor Capac of Mali
Kysit's Periwinkles

Revered Spectre Council,

I hope this message finds you well and you are not too upset about the break-up of Heracles. With all the southern civ's in massive military trouble, this was pretty much inevitable.

I didn't request any techs ingame from you. However, if you still wish to tech trade then that is something I have interest in.

We will be pushing to currency at full speed with lots of saved gold and academy. Currency is a huge part of anyone's economy so i'd definitely be itnerested in trading it to you.

Maybe something like:

Masonry and Polytheism vs Currency?

that's 180 vs 400 in terms of beakers.

Up to you guys and i understand if you're pissed.

Kyan

Hey Bob,

Mali's email was a lot blunter than i would have put it. Basically, since the original Heracles is being ripped apart at the seams (it looks very much like Rome are to follow Sumeria and Inca can't do anything right now) we agreed to start tech trading with the members from the Hydra also.

I can't speak for Mali but i am still happy to trade with yourselves. It's become a situation where us 4 need to do whatever it takes to survive. If that means dancing with the devil so be it. This is what i was talking to you about the other day. The hydra itself won't last long, there are already mini-alliances forming left, right and center. It's just we can't survive any longer as Heracles vs Hydra and therefore we have ditched that idea.

We will be researching Currency next and using that trading chip to make some progress.

Your friend,

Kyan

They may try and wrap it up with colorful paper and a fancy ribbon, but let's not mince words here: this is a betrayal to the remaining members of the Heracles alliance, and in my eyes this makes Babylon and Mali no better than England, who was willing to jump in bed with the Hydra to get themselves ahead.

One may call me mad, but as long as they are dealing with the Hydra, I have no interest in making any deals with them, even the favourable one they proposed to 'patch things over'. They're not going to make it right or acceptable just by throwing money at it. This kind of behaviour is exactly what we wanted to avoid when we asked to include the permanent alliance option into the pre-game votes, and as a matter of principle, I am not considering changing my opinion on it.

What we should do now is contact the remaining members of the alliance (Maya, Yaz, Rome and the Incans) and ask them if they want to continue working together. I can't really blame them if they choose not to, but any cooperation that can be continued should be welcome at this point. If the four of us can continue trading techs, we're at least not completely dead in the water. I sent them this message:

Members of the Heracles alliance,

By now you will no doubt have read the decisions of Babylon and Mali to leave our alliance and start dealing with the Hydra. Apologetic as their messages sounded though, make no mistake: this was a betrayal, and a shocking one. Unfortunately it these teams were willing to spit on the principles the Heracles alliance was formed under to dive in bed with the Hydra and get themselves ahead.

The question now is what to do next. We would like to continue working together with you guys, but can understand if this development causes you to rethink your position.

-SleepingMoogle

We'll also need to get a message back to Babylon and Mali. I haven't sent anything because this is something we all need to agree on, but I've given my opinion already, and hope you'll agree with it.

I went in-game to check on teching costs, and we'd need one more turn at 0% science after the current one. After that we can research Archery in 4. It might have been three, but right now we're not working commerce at the Citadel to get the Settler out. I'm going to completely agree with Bob now to place city 4 where we intended it to; we'll need to set a solid border with Babylon before their culture can encroach on our lands.

It also looks like Portugal has found us; there's a scouting warrior in the border zone between us and Babylon. I sent them a quick message to establish contact

Finally, I would like to propose recalling the two chariots currently in between our lands and India/Sumeria. They must be getting really confused being ordered to make a 180 yet again, but I would like some additional security at home for now.

Next turn we'll contact France as well. Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope they'll be amiable to dealing with us over the Hydra.