New experimental version

[Nelphine]

A better change than limiting by unit type might be to increase the minimal damage by 1 for every extra figure in the stack, up yo 4 figures, and 2 for each figure past that. So 6 damage for 1 figure, 7 for 2 figures. 9 for 4 figures. 13 for 6 figures. 19 for 9 figures.

[Seravy]

...ok, if you think that, I'll restore Dispelling Wave. That solves the problem of how to make it not have halved power against city buffs.

More armor counters multiple figures - That's the basic concept of the figure mechanic. Has always been that way in the past 24 years.
Only high end single figure units were supposed to beat high armor in the first place. Not being able to should have never happened. Allowing enough armor to reach more armor than the highest attack single figure rare creature can still hurt was a miscalculation inherited from the original game. They probably thought "who cares, everything important has armor piercing or illusion or doom anyway!" well, not everything it seems.

I still fail to see how the outcome of a 9 great drakes vs 6 maxed heroes battle has any relevance to buffing. Normal units will never have enough shields to take less than the minimal damage from those, no matter how much they are buffed, so they aren't taking any more damage, nor are they dealing less to either of them.

[Nelphine]

This suggestion allows for particularly good city troops - high elves with racial bonus to hit, golems, minotaurs (!) To also benefit from the minimal damage rule, which to me, was a big benefit in the first place.

[Nelphine]

Wait, you're restoring dispelling wave because I think it counters the ENTIRE strategy of buffing? What? Why would you think that's a good thing?

[Nelphine]

And the point of making it affect city troops is that if someone DOES invest enough in buffing that its comparable to the cost of multiple very rates, why shouldn't they be able to do what a very rare does? (Not on the recuevibg end, only on the attacking end. Buffed minotaurs seem a perfectly valid unit to bebefitvfrom minimal damage)

Note that 2 stacks of my bezerkers costs as much as 2 stacks of great drakes PLUS the cost of researching great drake. Why shouldn't they be as effective as your great drakes?

[Seravy]

No, dispelling wave negates buffing entirely, despite the cost.

Translation : Cutting it in half didn't matter.
If it didn't matter, but has an unwanted side effect (halved on cities) then rolling it back is common sense.

...no I'm not serious, but could be.

cost of multiple very rares

No. The cost of multiple very rares are :
-tens of thousands of RP
-picking a whole bunch of spellbooks.

You didn't pay either of these costs - buffs are lower tier spells with low RP costs and less book requirements.

many lower tier spells != some very rares.

Note that 2 stacks of my bezerkers costs as much as 2 stacks of great drakes PLUS the cost of researching great drake. Why shouldn't they be as effective as your great drakes?

...if you actually played the Berserkers you should know that they are MORE effective than the Great Drakes against everything that does not have ridiculous armor. The price for that is they are weaker against things that do have it. See my previous post of "armor counters figures".

[Nelphine]

Note that my cost INCLUDES the cost of research. Yes, my 2 stacks of bezerkers costs MORE than 8000 more than 2 stacks great drakes. Which means not only does it include the cost of summoning the great drakes, and researching the great drakes, it also requires an additional massive investment to get the required casting skill. So you're right it requires less books to get the very rare.. But I need books from 3 realms. And the power expenditure is FAR higher. And I suppose I could include the research cost of all 13 buffs being used. 8 commons, 3 uncommons, 2 rates - that's as much as another full stacks great drakes.

[Seravy]

That doesn't change the fact that I'm not willing to break one of the very core game mechanics (armor counters figures).

[Domon]

multi figures should have minimun damage capped or hardcoded. actually, is it feasible to hardcode it on a per unit and per buff basis? (so you can make high-end buffs increase it by maybe 1 or 2)

Inviato dal mio GT-I9100 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Nelphine]

No, the cost of 2 stacks of my bezerkers is 1800 production and ~16500 mana/overland casting skill.

2 great drake stacks costs ~9000 mana/overland casting skill. Plus another 8000 for research, means my bezeekers are far more expensive even including research cost.

And if you include research cost for all 13 of my buffs, that's another ~4500, which us the mana cost of a third full stack of great drakes.

So, 2 stacks of bezerkers has the mana/research cost of 3 full stacks of great drakes, and costs 3000 MORE overland skill than those same 3 stacks of great drakes.

And it requires more very rare spells - crusade and holy arms - and it requires 2 other realms. And it requires 2 retorts. So the pick cost is much higher than for great drakes.


Edit: sorry I thought my last post never got posted.