Wow - that attack went really well! Great surviving infrastructure and capture gold too, looks like - cool! As for offering peace or pressing on: Can we seen any of his border cities with us other than Tularean Forest? (There's a remote chance that we might be able to take Tularean Forest with similar force since he's not in Slavery, but we'd have to act fast and we may not be able to get swords into place in time.)
We'll want Buddhism in Vulcania by the time it comes out of resistance - even so, it'll be a long time (short of taking or razing the pressuring cities) before it controls its first ring.
Note that as we just demonstrated ourseelves, the ability to whip a longbow in Oljei Baajii won't protect it against an amphibious attack out of the fog - and remember that Dark Savant has Circumnavigation. Once the LB is whipped of course, it makes the city very hard to attack!
I'm not sure what to do with that offer from GJ. Obviously free OB is a no-go, but he'll have an LB in State of Zijin in about 4 turns, and I doubt if we can raze it before then given what our builds have been. The problem can probably be solved with sheer weight of numbers if we commit to it, but I don't think we're doing so, especially if we keep warring on the Dark Savant front or he refuses peace.
One other thing: It might be worth offering a map trade to e.g. Coeurva and/or dtay.
I'm struggling to make any constructive comments, given the flux in the diplo situation. At least being in slavery + vassalage with longbows is likely to put off any minor aggression.
This map is vicious. So many borders, so many short naval routes. You don't want to be caught without optics when the first opponent hits astronomy, and at the same time you need to working on guilds and gunpowder. Oh, and engineering, while building triremes and defensive land units. All this just to survive, let alone build an economy!
It may have looked easy, but that is because it was done correctly - Brian Moore
Yes, t137 was a very good turn for us! I`ll get to the new turn in a few hours.
Regarding the geography, the island cities are just so hard to defend. Hills are few and far between and a lot of the actual city sites have forested deer right next to them. I think the defense bonus in meant to encourage more warfare on the seas. We are practically without safe back lines and I think all of our cities could be targeted in a 2 turn attack. It`s a brutal map indeed.
Let`s offer a couple of map trades. We don`t have any updated info on the other war theaters.
If we get a Peace offer this turn I`m tempted to take it (though I doubt we got one). We currently don`t have vision on any other cities of Dark Savant`s than Tulearean Forest. Our eastern Trireme will get vision on one of his other cities this turn. If it`s very lightly defended, then maybe we can go on with the attack. I`ll see if there is an opening. We still have two more turns until he can make a Slavery swap. A Missionary will be started this turn. Getting Buddhism into Vulcania asap is a must. If we`re not in enforced peace, Oljei Baajii should probably whip out the Longbow.
Krill made us an offer: Sugar for marble. I declined. We`re not really pressed for happiness right now. Perhaps building up a bit of goodwill is still a good idea. It`s a bit surprising that he doesn`t have his own source of marble, as I think the map was made so that each player would have easy access to stone and marble.
We now have vision on Mist. The Triremes protect each other and a pair of Galleys are NE of Vulcania, threatening his city. It`s on a hill, with 40 % defense so we`re not taking it. I offered Peace for 50 gold and Straight peace. Let`s see how he reacts. All options are still on the table. We would not have been in time to attack Tulearean Forest before Dark Savant will be back in Slavery, therefore the Galleys moved E instead. The last Galley is going back to gather a Longbow/Missionary pair from Sugabala (the Longbow finished this turn). Bayan Khutugh now has a Longbow and will be pretty safe. Oljei Baajii whipped a Longbow as well.
We`re just about able to 1 turn Machinery (we had to do some very minor sacrifices to make it happen) and have about 3 beakers to spare. Hopefully it`ll be enough. Getting the option of building Watermills and Windmills is very nice.
Borte is growing again next turn, then it`ll be size 18! Having a big, strong capital is good for our economy.
Graphs and demos: Our last unit builds ensured that we`re now 3rd in military, and there`s plenty more to come.
Also, map swaps offered to dtay and Couerva.
EDIT: Joey is getting access to Longbows next turn already so that window is about to slam shut. If we had gotten research visibility on him a bit earlier we might have gone all out attacking State of Zijin. As I see it now, the next chance is to build a huge stack of 3 promo Knights and Catapults. We`ll probably beat Joey to Guilds by a few turns. It might be enough. Those PRO Longbows are very good defenders, so a raze will still come with huge losses.
I'm curious about whether Dark Savant will accept peace. If he doesn't, I think we still have offensive options ... if we don't have to play defense more urgently:
- Gav can declare war on us this turn (T139) if he wants to, I believe. I notice he has at least a couple of Triremes close to Daliyetimishi. Is that all, or are there e.g. Galleys under the northern Trireme as well? If he has galleys within three tiles of Daliyetimishi's deer, he could unload an attack force. Remember that a longbow (or any good defensive unit) in a city is not invincible: It just means an attacker has to sacrifice more to take it down.
Of course, we could also declare on him, but I don't think our forces are positioned to try to take back Babukhan right now, and we've got enough on our plate as it is.
- GermanJoey appears to be roading [EDIT: maybe not; see below] the tile N of State of Zijin in the T138 screenshot. This is a highly aggressive move. How fast can we get a chariot (or a 0-xp keshik if we have one handy) into Oghul Qaimish and two Workers and a spear or elephant to the tile north of Oghul Qaimish? If at all possible, I would like that road pillaged. (Therefore two workers to road up to the tile, a spear or Wellie to cover them - or more if our sentries spot more mounted units or workers behind the city - and a chariot to pillage the road before offering a cease-fire - or peace if we think ten turns of enforced peace with GJ would be beneficial. [EDIT: Either way, we can't assume he'll accept; the situation will be evolving between now and the time we can actually execute this even if we do so. Even so...])
Relatedly, Oghul Qaimish needs a longbow - and preferably more than one.
[EDIT2: Looking at the screenshot again, I actually think the Worker is farming that tile. I don't like him standing there, but I wouldn't road the tile SE of Oghul Qaimish - an aggressive move on our own part - if he hasn't built a road on that tile. I would want to confirm that he hasn't started a road there though. In case you're not sure how to do this:
Highlight one of our Workers who has already used up all its moves for the turn and is standing on a road. Hold down the [Shift] key and click on the "Go to" button; still holding down the [Shift] key, click on the tile north of State of Zijin; there should now be a "Road" button available. (If there isn't, cancel the Worker's orders and start over; Civ's interface can be finnicky and weird.) While still holding down [Shift], mouse over the "Road" button. It should indicate the road would take 3 turns to build. If it says 2, then GJ has put a turn into a road there. Finally, cancel the orders for our Worker.
As long as the Worker is there though, I would want a ~disposable mounted unit in Oghul Qaimish either way, even though we won't always have Workers positioned to be able to road the SE tile at a moment's notice, so we'd be able to respond to more-aggressive roading.]
Also, Krill's request is interesting. I agree with rejecting the sugar deal, but is there anything we could counter-offer that we'd want and he might accept? Maybe a GPT deal of some kind? We'd want to ask for a higher price, but not so high he wouldn't bother with a counter-offer. I ... don't have a good sense for what that would be. 20 gpt? 30? 10? It has to be enough to be worth our while, but not enough that he'd consider declaring a fake war once he's done with the marble just to pay less than 10 turns of the cash.
(Of course if he isn't saving gold, it doesn't matter until he starts...)
Okay, just one last thing, belatedly looking at Civstats to lear about international news:
Turn 137 was pretty exciting for us, and pretty crippling for Dark Savant; as you probably recall, Coeurva took a city from him too. Well, the city Coeurva took was a pretty big deal: It had been on the board for at least 20 turns, and I think it was size 9 (size 8 after capture). Also on that turn, if I'm reading civstats right, GermanJoey took a city from ... Russia! I assume it was an island city planted off Russia's northwest coast.
And finally, the city dtay took from Russia that turn? That was his capital. Can't be sure unless the map trades go through, but I believe dtay and Coeurva now border each other by land.
And then earlier this turn, GJ took another Russian city.
Gavagai's not out of contention altogether, but he's falling way behind the leaders. To catch up, he'll have to either take on another contender (and likely just cost them both any chance to win) or resume his war with us (and I think we can stop him from making gains that way if it happens soon) or try for a piece of Dark Savant, which would require him to put his army on the opposite side of his empire from Krill and likely split his spoils with Coeurva (and us to an extent if we end up still/again at war with Dark Savant).
Meanwhile, Krill is very much in contention - probably more so than Gav - in spite of having the world's lowest crop yield for most of the game and so far conquering zero cities. He has a much better chance of claiming the lion's share of China than Gav does of getting similar land out of Dark Savant. Still, if Krill wants to eventually win this game, he has to get more out of China than GJ does and he needs us to hold on and finish strong. Once China is gone, Krill will have no soft targets through whom he can expand, and if dtay and/or GermanJoey overrun us, that leaves at least one of them with an unbeatable amount of land.
As for dtay, he's looking like a juggernaut right now, but his economy is built in no small part on the Colossus, and if he delays Astro for too long on this map, he'll regret it. The outcome is still very much in doubt.
And our team? We'll keep looking for opportunities to claw our way back into the game, which also means making ourselves a hard target for as long as we can manage it. If this helps Krill and Coeurva compete effectively with the likes of dtay and GermanJoey, and the game stays more exciting for longer as a result - and if it helps ensure that Gavagai can't catch the front-runners any more easily than we can - hey, those are just added bonuses!
The Greek Worker N of State of Zijin is making a farm, that`s why I didn`t mention it in the turn report. However, you`re right that it`s a potentially aggressive move. We really are vulnerable to forking if that road is ever being built. Toregene could actually need a Longbow, to be on the safe side. We can move a Keshik to Oghul Qaimish this turn, to dissuade Joey from building the road.
There were no Ottoman Galleys visible last turn, let`s hope Gavagai directs his naval power elsewhere. We might want to switch D-mishi to another Longbow, even if it`s only a CG1. It`ll be on a hill for good defense. My back up plan if he were to land an attacking force on that island was to move the Archer in Danashri over right away. Then we`ll have 4 good defensive units. We can not afford to lose D-mishi so I agree that having some leeway if the rng decides to be cruel, would be good.
Thinking about it, offering a gpt deal for the marble sounds good. I`m happy if we can get 10 gpt for it.
As for the geopolitics, I agree with what you wrote. Dtay is looking scary right now. Gavagai needs to do something to keep up with dtay and Joey. It looks like our only hope is Dark Savant collapsing completely, allowing us to vulture a fair part of his islands. Or we could attack State of Zijin, of course!
EDIT: Couerva captured another city off Ethiopia! It`s almost like I regret having offered peace last turn. Still, Dark Savant is in Slavery now, and taking more cities requires more units.
I sort of expected Dark Savant to accept peace.. and he did (without any money transferring hands). That`s still fine. We have secured another city, at least for the time being. I think both dtay and Couerva accepted the map swaps. Finally, we have vision on the entire map. Is there any part of the map you want me to take screenshots of? Also, a couple of Great General were born, I don`t like much that Joey has one to use but we`ll have to fight a bit more to get our own. Another Great Scientist were born in State of Zijin! He`s really running a lot of specialists there. A random Buddhist spread to a Carthagian city is nice.
We are actually able to 3 turn Guilds at max science, only a few beakers are needed to cut down a turn (from 4). Guilds is going to be awesome for us, the option of building Knights will make an attack on us very costly.
As suggested, D-mishi is now building a Longbow that could be whipped next turn already. I think we should play it safe here, no need to risk anything. It`s Montezuma Gavagai we have next door after all! There are no visible Ottoman Galleys.
Danashri borrowed the corn from Bulugan in order to grow eot. Bulugan started a Settler, as we have a few okay-ish sites to settle. Nambui is just about able to 1 turn a Jewish Monastery (60/60 hammers). Borte is making a lot of Longbows for us. The eastern island cities are generally more infrastructure-oriented now. Note that Bayan Khutugh whipped a Library this turn. It`s hopefully soon gaining control of the pigs again.
Finally, a Keshik was moved to Oghul Qaimish, to convince Joey`s worker to go away. It still appears to build a farm (4 turns now).
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