New experimental version

[Arnuz]

I noticed that the astrologer bonus doesn't show up on the magic screen despite the description saying that it does. It's 07 with several nodes.

Runemaster isn't that bad, it still protects your buffs and strengthens your dispels against their buffs. I don't like it at impossible because it's a "fair play" retort - it works if the conditions are otherwise equal, which doesn't happen in impossible.

I met the new water elementals, the animation is awesome! They seem a bit too strong but I guess that's on the receiving end... ^_^'

[Nelphine]

How do they compare to fire giants? I thought they were too strong as well, but then realized fire giants (and great lizards) are the closest equivalents.

[Arnuz]

Quite similar, a bit stronger ranged but weaker in combat. I'm not sure what's their ranged damage type, if it's arcane that could be too much, as it's very rare, while cold would be fine, and it'd respect the traditional strength of the death realm against sorcery.

They have fire immunity, that looks weird on a water elemental - shouldn't it be cold? Undead they become super-immune now

[Nelphine]

Yeah I'd prefer cold immune cold damage too.

[Seravy]

I noticed that the astrologer bonus doesn't show up on the magic screen despite the description saying that it does. It's 07 with several nodes.

Did you count the node tiles or what? How do you know the number is incorrect?

They are slightly stronger overall than Fire Giants but cost more and don't have the Fireball spell.
They do a nature element attack. There are no attacks that are cold type, only spells.

Did you try to burn water? It doesn't work very well...on the other hand, cold freezes the water.

(also, Sorcery is usually weak to Nature so cold immunity wouldn't be very suitable)

[Nelphine]

But in all classic games, water elementals are vulnerable to fire, and resistant or immune to cold. The idea, I think is that a firewall or other magic fire just instantly evaporates water - so try burning eater but with fire from say, a plasma gun.

Anyway, point is, I think it matches the theme and will be more intuitive to new gamers. I'm not super concerned one way or another

[Arnuz]

Yeah NBD on the immunity, it just looks weird, DND is the opposite for example. Nature attack sounds kudos.

Holy bonus: I like stuff that pushes to use composite armies. Shouldn't it grant its bonus also to ranged attacks?

[Domon]

i'm all for going the opposite direction from dnd, ever.

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[Nelphine]

Except its not just d&d - world of warcraft, final fantasy, all of the well known games, all do that. Still not terribly worried, just won't be as intuitive for new players.

[Settemio]

Thanks again Seravy for continuing to put so much work into this excellent mod! I do miss Conjure Roads, it was actually one of my favorite Sorcery realm spells, even if it was out that realm's intended domain. Guess I'm not a real Blue player at heart, haha. Any chance of bringing it back elsewhere? Since it is an economy spell, maybe replacing a Life uncommon would be appropriate, and I think Raise Dead and Resurrection have enough overlap that one of them could go. Maybe I should bring this up in the Life Realm thread . . .

Anyway, I wanted to point out a few bugs I noticed while playing, none of which actually affect gameplay. During Wizard creation, when choosing a race, the Klackon's description text is has an extra empty line that messes with the image:

   

Also when looking at the description of Fire Elemental the image shown is Water Elemental:

   

And when looking at the description of an already-built Colosseum in a city, it has no text:

   

On the topic of the unintuitive Water Elemental, I think it's fine. The fact that different types of attack have the same symbol is already way unintuitive to me, as a relatively new player (or maybe just a not-very-good one). If we were trying to cater to the intuition of new players and make everything easier to understand, all magic attacks would be Arcane damage type and Slingers would use arrow symbols. It really is too bad that you can't figure out what type of attack you are using from any of the information in-game.