It`s probably soon time to make a decision on whether to make an attempt to attack or not. I made a few changes, having options is good. We`re now focusing a bit more on military, but not all-in yet. If Joey spots the danger we could go back to the plan of building Grocers instead. You might be right about this being our last window. Borte probably should have built the Colosseum already but the Longbows were badly needed for short term defense. Bulugan`s Settler might have been a questionable build but its has a lot of production and I figured that it soon would be back on building units.
Muqa could go War Elephant - Keshik (Knight). Also, we have some Catapults/War Elephants on the northern border. We`ll move them down with the rest of the army in the coming turns. Nambui has a part-built Keshik (28/50 hammers) and is making 30 hammers per turn. I figured the Longbow would still be a good defender as we really can`t afford losing that city. We could perhaps build a Trireme there next. Deciding on Danashri and Mandukhan`s builds is difficult. Neither has a Barracks and I let them keep building infrastructure. Perhaps they could add a unit still..
Oghul Qaimish can start a unit next turn (probably a Keshik as it has a Ger). Toregene doesn`t have a Ger and therefore started an X-bow.
Another question is - how many turns will we have Knights before Joey gets access to them? It won`t be many so all of our cities should be on military builds if we stick with the plan. To sum up - maybe we should set the deadline to next turn already. I`d love to try it but there are some pitfalls. Without Engineering we can`t get our units to the gates of State of Zijin immediately so he`ll have a turn to reinforce the city before we attack. Also, we definitely need more Catapults to break down the walls and to deal collateral damage.
Okay, so I have a really complicated plan for you to look at in case we want to press an all-out attack on State of Zijin (and perhaps see if we can press on from there). It's not even fully written up yet, and some of the galley moves are fairly intricate, and it's not in the best order, but I'll post what I've got so far once I make sure I correctly understand what some of the workers will need to do on Turn 142 (i.e. the current turn). You definitely don't have to follow this plan, but I wanted to post it anyway to give you a sense for what we can do.
Let's see what we can do with this. Assuming Guilds comes in EoT145, we can put together a fairly overwhelming attack on T148, I think. This would also demand the participation of a bunch of existing units: All the Cats and Elephants near Muqa would have to get moving Southwestward to board galleys out of sight of GJ's sentry and other units by T147. All the Western Galleys would have to take part in preparing the attack. Two Workers would have to end T147 out of GJ's sight but in range to road the tile SE of Oghul Qaimish. The Workers on or around Sugabala and Kokejin Islands are mentioned in the plan below already, and all three Eastern Galleys would be needed basically immediately:
[EDIT: The plan below has been updated based on information I (re)discovered after T142.]
Borte: T142: Continue the Colosseum. T143: Borte is size 19. Begin a Keshik. T144: Resume the Colosseum and WHIP it for 1 pop. T145: Colosseum complete with 48 (base) overflow; resume the Keshik and WHIP it for 1 pop, e.g. giving one of the cottages to Oljei Taikhu. T146: Knight complete. Start another Knight. T147: Knight complete. (These are pretty inefficient whips - 55 food for 60 base hammers - but worth it to speed up these valuable knights.)
Muqa: T142: Muqa is size 16. Start a Keshik. T143: Continue building the Keshik, now giving up a coast tile to work the plains forest. T144: Resume the Elephant and WHIP it for 1 pop, giving up a coast tile (while still working the forest). T145: Elephant complete with 35 (base) overflow. Resume the Keshik and WHIP it, giving up another coast tile, and swapping the plains forest to work the desert hill mine instead. T146: Knight complete. Start another Knight. T147: Knight complete.
Toregene: T142: Start a Cat. T143: WHIP the Cat for 2 pop. T144: Cat complete; start a Keshik. T145: Keep working on the Keshik. T146: The Keshik has upgraded to a Knight in the queue. WHIP it for 2 pop. T147: Knight complete.
Oghul Qaimish: T142: Courthouse complete with no overflow. Oghul Qaimish is size 11. Fire both priests (even if it just means working coast tiles; we can make up for this after the battle) but keep the engineer going this turn and start a Galley. T143: WHIP the Galley for 2 pop, giving up a coast tile and the Engineer. T144: Galley complete with 27h (base) overflow. Start another Galley, and hire another Engineer. T145: WHIP the Galley, giving up the Engineer. T146: Galley complete with 34h (base) overflow. Start a Knight. (I may be out-thinking myself here, but my theory is that GJ has vision on Oghul Qaimish and generally plays before us in the turn. This means he'll see whatever we produce in the city. If he sees this place producing Galleys, it would be quite reasonable for him to assume our military build-up is for vengeance on Gav. And he might not realize we have Knights until we launch our attack.)
Chubei: T142: Catapult complete with 2h (base) overflow. Start a Keshik, picking up the desert hill mine and an Engineer in place of two lake tiles. T143: Whip the Keshik for 1 pop, firing the Engineer. T144: Keshik complete with 19h (base) overflow. Start another Keshik. T145: Whip the Keshik for 1 pop, giving up the desert hill mine (to Muqa) and hiring an Engineer in its place. T146: Knight complete. Start another Knight?
[EDIT:
Nambui: T142: Longbow complete with 6h (base) overflow. Resume the Keshik. T143: Keshik complete with 11 (base) overflow. Start another Keshik. T144: Nambui is size 16, growing onto a farm, and starts a Chariot. T145: Chariot complete. Resume the Keshik and WHIP it for 1 pop, giving up a farm. T146: Knight complete with 19h (base) overflow. Start another Knight?
Kokejin: T142: Resume the Cat, working both the Horse and the Workshop. T143: WHIP the Cat, giving up a coast tile; hire an Engineer, and work the bare plains tile and a citizen specialist. (Yeah, I know. The things we do for one extra Knight!) T144: Cat complete with 20h (base) overflow; start a Keshik, still working the ridiculous city configuration. T145: WHIP the Keshik, giving up the Citizen specialist (finally) but still working the engineer and the bare plains tile. T146: Knight complete. Resume the Longbow. Finally drop the plains tile.]
Bulugan: T142: Give up a plains hill mine to Mandukhai, and borrow the Corn from Danashri. T143: Begin an Elephant, working the same tiles. T144: Bulugan is size 10. WHIP the Elephant for 2 pop, giving up a grassland farm and lending it to Oljei Taikhu. T145: Elephant complete with 36 (base) overflow. Resume the Keshik and WHIP it, giving up another grassland farm. T146: Knight complete; start a Knight, borrowing the plains hill mine back from Mandukhai. T147: Knight complete.
Radnashiri: Can't realistically contribute to the initial attack on State of Zijin.
Sugabala: T142: Start a Catapult. T143: WHIP the Cat for 2 pop, giving up two coast tiles. T144: Cat complete; start a Keshik. T145: WHIP the Keshik for 2 pop, giving up two coast tiles. T146: Knight complete. (With the aid of a chop; see below.)
Vulcania: Too small and far away to help with the war effort on the GJ front.
Daliyetimishi: T142: Barracks complete with 8 (base) overflow (I think). Start a Keshik. T143: Start a Cat. T144: WHIP the Cat for 2 pop. T145: Cat complete with 22h (base) overflow. Resume the Keshik and WHIP it. T146: Knight complete. Start a Longbow?
Danashri: T142: Start a Galley. T143: WHIP the Galley for 2 pop. T144: Galley complete with 8 overflow. Start another Galley. T145: WHIP the Galley for 2 pop. T146: Galley complete.
Mandukhai: T142: Start a Galley. T143: WHIP the Galley for 2 pop. T144: Start a Keshik?
[EDIT: Eastern Sea Galley and Worker Logistics:
T42: The Galley in Vulcania moves 2NW to the tile already occupied by another Galley. The Galley already on that tile (with a Sword aboard) moves 2NW toward Sugabala. If there is not a Worker on the Galley beside Kokejin, but there is a Worker on Kokejin island, then the Galley beside Kokejin WAITS for the Worker to board. Once there is a Worker on board the Galley moves NW-W to the tile between Muqa's fish and Sugabala's forest; if the Worker has movement left, it disembarks onto the forest. The Worker already on Sugabala Island starts a Road.
T143: The Worker near Sugabala completes a road. The Galley near Oljei Baajii moves 2NW toward Sugabala. The Galley already on that tile WAITS while the Swordsman disembarks into the city. THEN that Galley moves 1NE toward Kokejin and ends its turn with one move remaining. If the Worker on the other Galley has not yet disembarked, it does so now, onto the forest. Only after this has been done does that Galley moves 2W to the Whales.
T144: The Worker in Sugabala's forest begins a chop. The Worker on the adjacent tile moves into the forest. The Cat just completed in Sugabala and the Swordsman standing in the city both move 2NW to board the Galley on the Whales. That Galley WAITS for the Cat and Swrd, and then moves 2W to the fort. The Catapult from Kokejin boards the adjacent Galley, which WAITS for the Cat and THEN moves 1SW to the tile with the other Galley, where it WAITS yet again; the Cat boards the 2-move Galley, which WAITS to confirm it has "1/2" cargo space, meaning the Cat is aboard, THEN moves W-NW into the strait between Sugabala Island and the mainland. Finally, the last remaining Galley moves back 1NE toward Kokejin.
T145: The Workers in Sugabala's forest complete a chop. The Galley on the fort WAITS while its passengers disembark and move 2SW toward the front. It continues to WAIT while the Elephant just completed in Muqa moves to the fort and boards it. It continues to wait while the Galley near Sugabala Island moves W-NW around the island toward the fort, and the Cat on that Galley disembarks onto the fort and boards the Galley there. THEN, once it shows "2/2" cargo space again, the Galley on the fort moves 2NW through Oljei Taikhu into the northern sea. The Galley near Kokejin remains in place.
T146: The Galley near Kokejin WAITS for the Knight just completed in the city to board it. THEN that Galley moves 2NW toward Muqa. One of the Workers from Sugabala Island can board it if desired. The empty Galley between the iron mine and the mainland moves 1NE to the Whale and WAITS for the Knight just produced in Sugabala (and one of the Workers from the island if desired) to board it. THEN it moves back 1SW to the position it just left. The Galley on the northern sea moves W-SW into Bulugan, where its passengers disembark, then move 2SW.]
Now we are talking! I`ve read through what you wrote and I think it`ll be enough to break through, unless Joey starts making units like crazy. The plan of building Galleys on the western sea to hide units is surely a good one. If Joey could be convinced that we`re plotting a revenge attack on Gavagai, then all the better!
If we`re willing to build Wealth in a couple of cities we could get Guilds a turn sooner than the plan you mentioned. Is it worth the trouble? An eot 145 Guilds gives us an extra turn of building units after all.
I'm not sure we have the production to build a winning stack any sooner with an earlier Guilds. Our build-up has to happen over the course of just a few (these next few) turns, so one more turn's worth of producing and moving units represents a significant fraction of the total - and of course cities building wealth aren't building units.
(Another nice thing about hiding our slow-movers on galleys is that if necessary or appropriate, we might be able to pivot to attacking Gav after all! I don't suggest this unless circumstances change significantly though....)
This turn brought mixed news. Let`s start with the good news. Krill offered Open Borders! I`ve been checking for OB for a few turns now. Offer accepted. It boosted our economy with about 25 gpt. We really should help out Krill here. Perhaps it`s not such a bad idea to reoffer the Sugar for Marble deal. We could take a lot of casualties in an eventual war.. As for the bad news, take a look at this. Joey moved his sentry Chariot up to have a look. Last turn, I probably made a mistake in letting 2 Workers build a Watermill. It must have looked too suspicious, I guess. Well, he spotted our Sentry Keshik and a Catapult, nothing too bad. Oh, and I need to learn exactly how the Sentry promotion works. Which tiles does he have vision on now? I let one Worker continue the Watermill and let the other one continue a Workshop that can be finished next turn. There is a CG3, D1 Longbow incoming to State of Zijin (SW of the city).
Speaking of Krill, he started a Golden Age, revolting to Hereditary Rule, Pacifism; Vassalage and Caste System. Dark Savant and Couerva finally signed peace. Dark Savant could come after us but we should have sufficient military to fend him off. The slider was set to 100 % science. Maybe the improved science rate from the open borders can help us to get Guilds a turn early. (I agree that we don`t want to sacrifice a lot to make it happen).
All builds followed the plan. If Joey were to stuff in a ton of CG3 Longbows in State of Zijin I favor an attack on Gavagai instead.. We`d need quite a few Triremes to control the seas but we`re set up to build enough Galleys to ferry the troops over the sea body.
Graphs and demos: We`re basically 6th in most important categories. We dropped down the 5th in military but I expect us to climb in the coming turns. Our biggest problem is the lack of land, we`re quite a bit off the average here, even with Russia and China pulling down the numbers (quite unlike the real world!)
Oh ... I had forgotten that Kokejin already had 13 hammers in a catapult. That actually throws a spanner in my plan for that city. Let's see ... okay, it would need to start a Keshik this turn instead. I'll check to see if I missed anything else.
...and Nambui already had 27 hammers in a Keshik. That's okay though; in fact, we'll be able to get another Chariot out of it if we want.
GJ's sentry can see everything within two tiles from there, and if it moves E and back W, can see everything within 2 tiles of the tile to its west. I think that's it, but I'll check. From either of those tiles, it can see Oghul Qaimish's mine. The best response to him seeing our stack behind Oghul Qaimish is to just leave the units there and make sure not to move anything else into his possible sight range. The Longbow coming to State of Zijin is in no way surprising. If he gets four or five longbows in the city, we'll have to think about it more carefully.
How many turns are left on the (watermill?) being built by the Worker under the spear?
Finally: If we discover Guilds EoT144 instead of EoT145, it invalidates a lot of the plan I posted. It might allow for a better plan (I haven't examined it) but the plan would definitely have to change. (I will not be able to create a new plan, but you may well be able to improve on the one I posted, with or without an earlier Guilds!)
I`ll see if I can change the build in Kokejin to a Keshik before going offline tonight. The Watermill should be half-built by now (I`m pretty sure we`ve invested 4 out of 8 worker turns in it).
That Greek sentry Chariot is annoying indeed. We should probably try to play around it so to say. I`ll try to keep the units out of sight for him. My guess is that Joey is making a lot of Longbows now but we`ll see! If there is only a few of them when our attack date arrives we could still go ahead with the plan.
Okay, fair point about us waiting another turn on getting Guilds. T145 it is. The builder part of me desperately wants to get a Grocer up and running in Muqa (and Borte) but we`ll have to auto-upgrade a lot of Keshiks to Knights if our attack is to have any reasonable chance of success.
